How to properly defend creationism.

[BananaSlug]

Since it seems many YEC's on this board are having a hard time defending their religious beliefs, I've decided to show them how to properly defend creationism.

1. The Earth is only 6,000 years old.
-God created a fully mature earth just as he created fully mature plants and animals. There is no evidence to support this claim as true or false.
-Though many stars are hundreds of thousands of light years away, God simply created the lightwaves already in place. There is no evidence to support this claim as true or false.

2. The Flood.
-The flood was sent by God. There was no vapor canopy. God simply made the flood via a miracle. There is no evidence to support this claim as true or false.
-The flood waters were taken up by God. He simply vanished it away. There is no evidence to support this claim as true or false.
-There is absolutely no evidence to support the idea of a worldwide flood. It was a miracle and can never be verified by science.

Can atheists really provide better arguments for creation than YEC's? Let's see...

 

[Hespera]

banana..this thing you post..

I pledge defiance to the flag of the Divided States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under Greed, in ignorance, With Liberty and Justice for some.

Why do you post that? is it because you expect the country to be perfect of what?
i wodner why it is the new citizens who seem most proud of the USA.

 

[BananaSlug]

I defy what the country has come to represent. A nation that is divided by ideological differences rather that united in common goals. A country that has become bound by greed and unintelligent spending. A land enveloped in a veil of ignorance that limits our growth and denys rights to others based on their orientations. I pledge defiance to such a nation, as we all should.

 

[Hespera]

that is sad, banana. you do seem to expect perfection. what country is supposed to be better, what society?

i wonder if you have any positive to say or only negative.

In my home part of the world we never will forget that only the USA saved us.

i hope you will think some positive solutions not only to say negative things.

 

[sbvera13]

Wow this got OT fast. I like it.

On the OP: The creation was a miracle. Don't use any argument other than that, ever. It's called faith for a reason. Trying to make arguments is like saying you don't believe and have to convince yourself. You just leave yourself open to criticism

I defy what the country has come to represent. A nation that is divided by ideological differences rather that united in common goals. A country that has become bound by greed and unintelligent spending. A land enveloped in a veil of ignorance that limits our growth and denys rights to others based on their orientations. I pledge defiance to such a nation, as we all should.

I'm not to argue against any of those points, because they are all true. However, they were also all very much worse in the past. 50 years ago a woman would have a hard time getting a degree, and even harder time getting a job even if she did, and even after all that could never hope to match a man's pay. We've come a long way. And while we currently kinda suck, we're still moving forward. (albeit slowly). Hopefully with Bush gone we can stop sliding backwards....

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I know of a better way to defend YEC and the like:

1st rule: Keep your mouth shut. At least you can't embarrass yourself any more.
2nd rule: Stick your head in a pig. And watch the people flock to you.

 

[Cabal]

Erm...isn't this pretty much what AV has been saying all along?*

* (with all the unnecessary Pluto/dinobirds/apehumans/thalidovioxx/challenger multifecta nonsense trimmed out of course).

 

[sbvera13]

Almost. He still tries to provide arguments to rationalize it, such as embedded age. If his faith was perfect he would be able to rely on faith alone. Which is really the only defensible YEC position, since anything else is refutable.

I wonder if the human mind is truly capable of true irrationality? I've yet to see anyone, creationist or otherwise, who won't find some kind of argument to support their faith.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since it seems many YEC's on this board are having a hard time defending their religious beliefs, I've decided to show them how to properly defend creationism.

...

2. The Flood.

What does the Flood have to do with it?

 

[AV1611VET]

I wonder if the human mind is truly capable of true irrationality? I've yet to see anyone, creationist or otherwise, who won't find some kind of argument to support their faith.

.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[sbvera13]

You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

13Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? 14But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear[b]; do not be frightened."[c] 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. 17It is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil. 18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[d] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[e] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

context, context, context.

 

[BananaSlug]

that is sad, banana. you do seem to expect perfection. what country is supposed to be better, what society?

i wonder if you have any positive to say or only negative.

In my home part of the world we never will forget that only the USA saved us.

i hope you will think some positive solutions not only to say negative things.

Wow. You sure did read a lot into that statement. I have a lot of positive to say. We have made great strides in many areas but there is a lot of work to be done. One thing I love about America is that we have freedom of speech which is one of the most important freedoms we have. My actions on here are only a small part of my life. Don't expect a little blurb on my sig to be my whole personality. And don't forget that America tends to only help people that can give something back. That's why our country tends to ignore things like Darfur.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

What does the Flood have to do with it?

Why don't you hop over to Answers in Genesis or some such site, and do a search and/or drop them an email? You might be more successful in finding out what the flood has got to do with Creationism.

 

[BananaSlug]

What does the Flood have to do with it?

Because many YEC's attempt to use flood geology to explain such geological features as the Grand Canyon, "polystrate" fossils, and other features. Flood geology is an important aspect for creationism.
I mainly find it amusing that creationists want to use scientific explanations for miracles. If something is a true miracle then it would be beyond the realm of science, right?

 

[AV1611VET]

Why don't you hop over to Answers in Genesis or some such site, and do a search and/or drop them an email? You might be more successful in finding out what the flood has got to do with Creationism.

I don't need to hop over to Answers in Genesis or drop them an email --- I already know --- nothing.

They are about 2000 years apart from each other.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I don't need to hop over to Answers in Genesis or drop them an email --- I already know --- nothing.

They are about 2000 years apart from each other.

Incidentally, that would give you another excellent reason to hop over. To just tell them. They're all over this flood stuff all of the time. Must surely be heartbreaking to see.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because many YEC's attempt to use flood geology to explain such geological features as the Grand Canyon, "polystrate" fossils, and other features.

With respect to, in spite of, nor nothing to do with --- the Creation Week?

Flood geology is an important aspect for creationism.

It is ???

I mainly find it amusing that creationists want to use scientific explanations for miracles.

Maybe that explains it better to you guys, who only know the concept of GOD DID IT.

In other words, maybe they're trying to talk to you in your own language.

I can tell someone God created the universe ex nihilo, or I can tell someone God spoke the universe into existence, and all they'll understand is the word GOD.

They'll usually come back with the words, "poof" or "magic" for clarification.

If something is a true miracle then it would be beyond the realm of science, right?

Absolutely right.

 

[keith99]

Because many YEC's attempt to use flood geology to explain such geological features as the Grand Canyon, "polystrate" fossils, and other features. Flood geology is an important aspect for creationism.
I mainly find it amusing that creationists want to use scientific explanations for miracles. If something is a true miracle then it would be beyond the realm of science, right?

Perhaps. I'd give a firm yes to the miracle itself. In fact in some cases being beyond science is hte essense of the miracle. After all someone getting better from an illness is not a miracle, it is getting well when 'science' says you should not.

But let us look at some historical miracles. Ah a trinity of miracles comes to mind. Three Kama Kazies! or divine winds, at least as one side sees them. The Spanish Armada, poised to invade England was destroyed by a storm. China the same when it was going to take Japan and the other part of the story of Threompelae where a large part of the Persian fleet was destroyed by a storm. Oh we consider the storms a natural occurance, though nicely timed for one side. But what if there was evidence predicting these storms or cultural claims of miracle? Wouldn't we still expect some evidence? I'd say yes, not to the origin of the storm, but of the result, the wrecked fleet(s).

If we accept it as a miracle then I agree just where the water came from and where it went does fit into the area of 'but that it the miracle. But I'd still expect some evidence. Perhaps far less than one would expect from a 'natural' flood of the same magnitude and extent. But one piece of evidence has to remain (at least as most YECs tout the flood). There have ot be massive extinctions, or at the least die backs. Failure to have that is like failing to have wrecked ships in my little divine wind trinity.

 

[Hespera]

Wow. You sure did read a lot into that statement. I have a lot of positive to say. We have made great strides in many areas but there is a lot of work to be done. One thing I love about America is that we have freedom of speech which is one of the most important freedoms we have. My actions on here are only a small part of my life. Don't expect a little blurb on my sig to be my whole personality. And don't forget that America tends to only help people that can give something back. That's why our country tends to ignore things like Darfur.

Well, Im sorry I said that really. It was totally off topic and I was assuming a lot. I dont like it when people assume all sorts of things about me! Just you know, university atmosphere does seem to have lots of really seriously hate your country kind of americans so i get sort of sensitive about it.

Sue on the self interest tho to me the USA has done more in a non-self interest sort of way than other countries have.

 

[BananaSlug]

Well, Im sorry I said that really. It was totally off topic and I was assuming a lot. I dont like it when people assume all sorts of things about me! Just you know, university atmosphere does seem to have lots of really seriously hate your country kind of americans so i get sort of sensitive about it.

Sue on the self interest tho to me the USA has done more in a non-self interest sort of way than other countries have.

I apologize for jumping back as well. I don't "hate" America, I just "hate" the attitudes of some of the people who live here. America has done a lot for other countries but we do ignore a lot of things as well.

Anyway, back to the op!