How to fall from grace

[Bible Highlighter]

Read that chapter more carefully.

What Paul is relating to "dung" is all law keeping, commandment keeping, lifestyle, or anything that you do, to try to be reconciled to God, or accepted by God.
He's comparing all SELF EFFORT (dung), when compared to the BLOOD OF JESUS and the GRACE OF GOD.

I already showed you the context and by cross references that Paul was not referring to all law keeping in general but he was referring to the Old Law. If you believe otherwise, then you need to quote the actual verse that suggests this.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well a few things...

"working out your salvation, with fear and trembling", does not mean to be afraid of God.
This "fear", in this verse, is not the same word you find as "its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God".
But rather this word, in your verse, is to be understood like this..>"in AWE and REVERENCE".

So, why are you told to work out your salvation, if Jesus's Blood is the actual salvation?
Why is that?
How can you work out the BLood of Jesus?
A.) You can't.

So, the context of "working out your salvation"....is not to try to save yourself or to keep yourself saved, but rather the context is.....You have salvation, you are born again, now learn how to WALK in this situation, regarding how you understand God's Grace.

Start here and stay there for the rest of your life..

Hebrews 13:9

Why all the trembling in Philippians 2:12 if it is not talking about fear? That makes no sense to say so otherwise. A person does not tremble if they have reverence or respect for another. A person only trembles if they are actually afraid.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Let me ask you a question.
Do you deserve to be saved, or do you not, but God's mercy saved you anyway.?

So, that is the condition for all the rest of the born again.. How about you?

And regarding your question......Is this some type of "gotcha attempted" question?
That will always fail.

Listen, there is always the...>"well how can Hitler be saved", type of religious Cross denying mindset that wants to organize the Blood Atonement according to how a person feels it should be, or feels it would be best.
But God is not interested in public opinion.
God believes that all lives matter, and their color does not.
God is not politically correct, and this is not subject to change.

God is God and let every knee bow, in heaven and on earth.

So, the Blood of Jesus, is offered to "as many as will come".

And it will redeem as many as believe.

So, no matter the person's life, lifestyle, or past, .. God's blood is always a FREE Gift to them, as it is for all of us.
All means ALL.

It is a gotcha type question because if your belief was moral and good, then you will openly admit that George Sodini and Kenneth Nally were saved. But I don't believe they were saved because of the evil that they did in the name of the Lord. They willfully sinned and thought they could be saved while doing so. But Hebrews 10:26 says that if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin; Unless of course we repent or seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus while we are alive (See: 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9).

 

[Sidon]

In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commands,

The Church won't be here then, so, try not to place a wrong dispensation into a confused theology.

What you are describing is Tribulation salvation, that is not the same as you find it in the "time of the Gentiles".

Right now, we are in the "time of the gentiles". and PAUL is the "apostle to the gentiles".
So, we get our church doctrine from Paul.
The "time of the gentiles" has rules.....spiritual rules that govern it.
The main one, is "the Gospel of the GRACE of God".

See that Gospel? It wont be preached in the Great Trib., becasue the RULEs will change as God takes up again his dealing with the JEWS.

 

[Sidon]

Anyways, faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
This would be acting upon the Word of God (obeying the Living Word).
”

Faith comes by hearing.
Hearing comes by believing.
Being born again, is proof you have real faith (believed), and God accepts this faith to give you the new birth.

 

[Sidon]

I already showed you the context and by cross references that Paul was not referring to all law keeping in general but he was referring to the Old Law. If you believe otherwise, then you need to quote the actual verse that suggests this.

Paul was referring to himself.
How he was a pharasee, legalist, law keeper, and as Paul said...>"i was perfect in the law"..
So, all of that is self righteousness, played out as self effort, and its all useless, or as Paul described it..."dung".

The context it how to be RIGHTEOUS. And Paul is explaining that he did it all., and none of it made him righteous........So, he left all that behind and found the solution, when he realized that the only righteousness that God accepts, is His own.
So, Paul got that, and wrote the NT.

 

[Sidon]

Why all the trembling in Philippians 2:12 if it is not talking about fear? That makes no sense to say so otherwise. A person does not tremble if they have reverence or respect for another. A person only trembles if they are actually afraid.

God is not trying to be feared, regarding His blood bought redeemed.
Those that fear him, are those that don't know Him.
So, as i told you, that word "fear", is not just one meaning......in the NT.
Sometimes when its used, it means FEAR. but other times it means "awe" and "reverence" and "wonder" and "respect".
And those are how we are to see our salvation, as we work it out.

God is LOVE, and that is how we should see "Daddy".
God is Daddy. He is Abba, He is Father, to all the born again.

If you are NOT born again, then fear the Eternal Judge, as that Is who His is, if you are not HIS born again.
To those, God is this. John 3:36

But to the born again , God is DADDY.
And Daddy says, "come boldly to the throne of Grace, and find help".

 

[Sidon]

It is a gotcha type question because if your belief was moral and good, then you will openly admit that George Sodini and Kenneth Nally were saved. .

I dont share your opinion.
See, My Morals are not represented by the deeds of other people, including those you named.
So, check your own "Morals" before you judge me falsely again with nonsense.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul was referring to himself.
How he was a pharasee, legalist, law keeper, and as Paul said...>"i was perfect in the law"..
So, all of that is self righteousness, played out as self effort, and its all useless, or as Paul described it..."dung".

The context it how to be RIGHTEOUS. And Paul is explaining that he did it all., and none of it made him righteous........So, he left all that behind and found the solution, when he realized that the only righteousness that God accepts, is His own.
So, Paul got that, and wrote the NT.

Right, I know Paul was referring to himself as a Pharisee. He was referring to how he was trying to be saved by “Law ALONE Salvationism” (without God's grace) that cannot save anyone. I am against “Law ALONE Salvationism” because it does not include in being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Nobody can be saved by their good deeds outweighing their bad deeds. Nobody can be saved without God's grace. A person's past slate of sin needs to first be wiped out before they can walk with the Lord and do His good work. Paul was referring also to the Old Law and not the New, as well. This is what Paul was talking about in Philippians 3. He was not talking about how a believer is saved without keeping any of God's laws. For even believing in Jesus is a commandment (or law) (See: 1 John 3:23).

By the use of other words, Paul basically said that keeping the NT Law makes us free from the OT Law in Romans 8:2. Romans 13:8-10 shows that by loving your neighbor (the NT way) is how we fulfill the Old Law. Galatians 5:16 says that if you walk after the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says that God has chosen us to salvation through “sanctification of the Spirit” and “a belief of the truth.” This “sanctification of the Spirit” is in relation to holy living if you were to look at the context (verse 12 (the polar opposite of what is said in verse 13), and verses 16-17 (in the fact that it talks about faith and works)). For we are told to follow after peace with all men and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). For Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him (Hebrews 5:9). These are verses that you have to ignore in order to make your belief work.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I dont share your opinion.
See, My Morals are not represented by the deeds of other people, including those you named.
So, check your own "Morals" before you judge me falsely again with nonsense.

You miss the point. Both of these men preached the same message of sin and salvation that you do and they turned out in the end by doing evil under God's grace. That was the fruit of their belief. Why? Because if you tell a person that all they have to do is belief on Jesus and they are forever saved and nothing they do will not make them unsaved, then they will think they can sin and still be saved (Which is exactly what they did at the end of their lives). One guy thought he could murder a bunch of people and take his own life and still be in God's good graces. Another simply took his life because he was taught that a believer can commit suicide and still be saved in God's kingdom.

This is the natural fruit of such a belief.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is not trying to be feared, regarding His blood bought redeemed.
Those that fear him, are those that don't know Him.
So, as i told you, that word "fear", is not just one meaning......in the NT.
Sometimes when its used, it means FEAR. but other times it means "awe" and "reverence" and "wonder" and "respect".
And those are how we are to see our salvation, as we work it out.

God is LOVE, and that is how we should see "Daddy".
God is Daddy. He is Abba, He is Father, to all the born again.

If you are NOT born again, then fear the Eternal Judge, as that Is who His is, if you are not HIS born again.
To those, God is this. John 3:36

But to the born again , God is DADDY.
And Daddy says, "come boldly to the throne of Grace, and find help".

Again, you ignore context. Philippians 2:12 says to work out your salvation with fear and TREMBLING. You ignore the obvious context because it does not align with your belief.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is not trying to be feared, regarding His blood bought redeemed.
Those that fear him, are those that don't know Him.
So, as i told you, that word "fear", is not just one meaning......in the NT.
Sometimes when its used, it means FEAR. but other times it means "awe" and "reverence" and "wonder" and "respect".
And those are how we are to see our salvation, as we work it out.

God is LOVE, and that is how we should see "Daddy".
God is Daddy. He is Abba, He is Father, to all the born again.

If you are NOT born again, then fear the Eternal Judge, as that Is who His is, if you are not HIS born again.
To those, God is this. John 3:36

But to the born again , God is DADDY.
And Daddy says, "come boldly to the throne of Grace, and find help".

Also, in John 3:36, in other translations it says, “the one who does not obey the Son will not see life,” So the word “believeth not” and “does not obey” are synonmous in this particular instance.

But if you are not convinced by what other translations say on John 3:36, then just look at John 3:19-21.

“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.” (John 3:19-21).​

In verse 19: We learn that the condemnation is that men loved darkness because their deeds are evil.
In verse 20: We learn that everyone who does evil hates the light (i.e. they hate Jesus).
So there is no such thing as a belief alone in Jesus for salvation + nothing (Which translates as a sin and still be saved type belief).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Faith comes by hearing.
Hearing comes by believing.
Being born again, is proof you have real faith (believed), and God accepts this faith to give you the new birth.

Faith comes by hearing the words of Jesus and His followers. Yes, this starts by accepting God's grace by believing the words in Scripture to call upon the name of the Lord (Jesus) (Romans 10:13), and in seeking forgiveness with Him (Luke 18:9-14), and in believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and in receiving Jesus (John 1:12), but it also includes in hearing the rest of the words of Jesus, too. For Jesus says why do you call me, Lord Lord, and do not what I say? (See: Luke 6:46). So it's obvious that faith does not end with receiving Jesus and His grace, but the journey of faith continues with following Jesus and what He commanded us to do. For remember, God commanded Noah to build an Ark. This is mentioned as a part of Noah's faith in Hebrews 11. His obedience to God was a show of his faith and trust in God. If Noah did not obey, he would not have truly believed or had faith in God.

 

[Soyeong]

The Church won't be here then, so, try not to place a wrong dispensation into a confused theology.

What you are describing is Tribulation salvation, that is not the same as you find it in the "time of the Gentiles".

Right now, we are in the "time of the gentiles". and PAUL is the "apostle to the gentiles".
So, we get our church doctrine from Paul.
The "time of the gentiles" has rules.....spiritual rules that govern it.
The main one, is "the Gospel of the GRACE of God".

See that Gospel? It wont be preached in the Great Trib., becasue the RULEs will change as God takes up again his dealing with the JEWS.

I disagree that the Church won't be there, but either way that is irrelevant to the point I was making by quoting the verse to show that faith in Jesus is equated with obedience to God's commands. I said nothing about dispensations or about the tribulation. Our faith in God is repeatedly equated with our obedience to Him throughout the entire Bible, so speaking about the time of the Gentiles is against irrelevant. Dispensationalism is false because God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His righteousness are eternally valid, and if the way to testify about His righteousness were to change, then His righteousness would not be eternal. Grace has always been an aspect of God's nature, which He expressed throughout both the OT and the NT. For example, in Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so the Mosaic Covenant is also a covenant of grace, and in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involves following God's law, so the New Covenant is also a covenant of law.

 

[Sidon]

I disagree that the Church won't be there, but either way that is irrelevant to the point I was making by quoting the verse to show that faith in Jesus is equated with obedience to God's commands.

You are explaining that you believe that God makes you righteous with the Blood of Christ, so that you can then go and be and Old Testament Saint and try to keep the Mosaic LAW to try to keep yourself saved, by Lawkeeping.

Yet, God gave the law to show you that you are not holy, and need deliverance and salvation that is based on the NEW COVENANT that replaced the Old One that you are chasing as your idea of redemption.

 

[Soyeong]

You are explaining that you believe that God makes you righteous with the Blood of Christ, so that you can then go and be and Old Testament Saint and try to keep the Mosaic LAW to try to keep yourself saved, by Lawkeeping.

Yet, God gave the law to show you that you are not holy, and need deliverance and salvation that is based on the NEW COVENANT that replaced the Old One that you are chasing as your idea of redemption.

In Titus 2:11-14, God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and for how to renounce doing what is ungodly is part of the content of our salvation under the New Covenant, so I have only been speaking about how we are called to live under the New Covenant. Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). Furthermore, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand (Matthew 4:17-23) and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message. So Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant in order to undermine anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following God's law (Jeremiah 31:33). Nowhere does the Bible say that God gave the Mosaic Law to show that we are not holy.

 

[Sidon]

In Titus 2:11-14, God graciously teaching us to obey His laws for how to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and for how to renounce doing what is ungodly is part of the content of our salvation under the New Covenant,.

All believers understand that they are to '""present your body a living sacrifice".
This isn't a mystery.
But for some, the issue is...they think that they must do this or God will get rid of them.. = AFTER He has given them Eternal Life.
So, do you SEE THE PROBLEM with their faith?

In other words, they are trying to become a part of the Grace of God, by self effort, and the Grace of God is not related to a person's deeds.
God didn't come down here as Jesus, to hang on the Cross and die, so that we can then try to keep ourselves in God's Grace according to what we do.
God's "Gift of Salvation" is only related to the Blood of God being shed and being offered as "the gift of Righteousness".

 

[Sidon]

so speaking about the time of the Gentiles is against irrelevant.

The reason that "speaking about the Time of the Gentiles" is everything you have to understand is because if you dont, then you will not be following the doctrine of the Church correctly as ONLY GIVEN, in the "time of the Gentiles", by the "Apostle to the Gentiles".

You dont see this, but, you'l have to if you want to be found theologically and spiritually correct.

The "doctrine for the Church" is not found in the Old Testament, and its not found in the Great Tribulation, as the BODY OF CHRIST will miss most of that...
So, when you are alive, as you are.....in the "time of the Gentile" then you have to study Paul most of all.
Which is why Paul told YOU..>"be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".