how to deal with liars?

[joshex]

I'm having trouble at work an in my personal life where the following things happen where if I don't lie I get punished.

1: at work I noticed several times now people will change my schedule over night without telling me, where I was supposed to go to work at 10 but instead they roll the whole week back to start at 9 (not daylight savings) I know for a fact I booked for 10 and not 9. but lo and behold I get up an hour early and bam I have work immediately and am late to log-in (will get a deduction if I don't lie).

this is really getting to me, if I talk to them about this they will deny deny deny that they or their system did anything wrong. But I know it's because they want me to start working earlier to suit their timezone's busy hours but for me because I also work late I can't get up that early in my timezone..

so.. they put me in a bad spot because of their lies, I don;t want to lie in response but if I don;t they'll take away some salary for it.

2: in private life people ask me personal loaded questions that if I don't answer or answer based on how I really feel they will get mad and or verbally or mentally abuse me. they have severe attitude and control problems so walking away just makes it worse, how am I supposed to deal with this? I don't want to lie.

Example: Did you go to the gym? (they demand it of me and guilt me if I don't) sometimes I'm just too worn out an tired and end up forcing myself to go too late and realizing the gym was closed. if I tell them the gym was closed when I went they will get angry.

Example of verbal or mental abuse if I don't answer: a 4 hour skype call when I'm worn out formt eh day and just want to sleep, they wont let me go until I give them an answer, if I hang up they'll call again, if I quit skype they'll call my phone. if I turn off the phone there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

I hate sin, especially my own and it bothers me that it seems they are pushing me into these situations, I don't know how to deal with them or how to respond and could use some advice.

thanks.

 

[Sabertooth]

1. Take a photo of your schedule. Phone camera files have date stamps.
   
   One of the gas stations that I deliver newspapers to started to call my boss claiming that I was bypassing them in my delivery. (It was a deliberate lie to get me fired.) I started photographing my delivered copy next to their POS device and that stopped. (And I made it sound like my boss ordered it at their behest, so they didn't feel the need to make more trouble. )
   
2. Ask God for wisdom [James 1:5-8]. Jesus had the same problem [Matthew 22:15-22].

 

[Johnny4ChristJesus]

I'm having trouble at work an in my personal life where the following things happen where if I don't lie I get punished.

1: at work I noticed several times now people will change my schedule over night without telling me, where I was supposed to go to work at 10 but instead they roll the whole week back to start at 9 (not daylight savings) I know for a fact I booked for 10 and not 9. but lo and behold I get up an hour early and bam I have work immediately and am late to log-in (will get a deduction if I don't lie).

this is really getting to me, if I talk to them about this they will deny deny deny that they or their system did anything wrong. But I know it's because they want me to start working earlier to suit their timezone's busy hours but for me because I also work late I can't get up that early in my timezone..

so.. they put me in a bad spot because of their lies, I don;t want to lie in response but if I don;t they'll take away some salary for it.

2: in private life people ask me personal slanted questions that if I don't answer or answer based on how I really feel they will get mad and or verbally or mentally abuse me. they have severe attitude and control problems so walking away just makes it worse, how am I supposed to deal with this? I don't want to lie.

Example: Did you go to the gym? (they demand it of me and guilt me if I don't) sometimes I'm just too worn out an tired and end up forcing myself to go too late and realizing the gym was closed. if I tell them the gym was closed when I went they will get angry.

Example of verbal or mental abuse if I don't answer: a 4 hour skype call when I'm worn out formt eh day and just want to sleep, they wont let me go until I give them an answer, if I hang up they'll call again, if I quit skype they'll call my phone. if I turn off the phone there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

I hate sin, especially my own and it bothers me that it seems they are pushing me into these situations, I don't know how to deal with them or how to respond and could use some advice.

thanks.

Maintain your integrity. You have to answer to God for that AND trust that if they do more than just verbally abuse you, your integrity will be rewarded by God. Better to be found in his corner! And, if they fire you, imagine the stress relief you will have. Most employers want people to be honest, because they know that if you will lie for them, you will lie to them.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm having trouble at work an in my personal life where the following things happen where if I don't lie I get punished.

1: at work I noticed several times now people will change my schedule over night without telling me, where I was supposed to go to work at 10 but instead they roll the whole week back to start at 9 (not daylight savings) I know for a fact I booked for 10 and not 9. but lo and behold I get up an hour early and bam I have work immediately and am late to log-in (will get a deduction if I don't lie).

this is really getting to me, if I talk to them about this they will deny deny deny that they or their system did anything wrong. But I know it's because they want me to start working earlier to suit their timezone's busy hours but for me because I also work late I can't get up that early in my timezone..

so.. they put me in a bad spot because of their lies, I don;t want to lie in response but if I don;t they'll take away some salary for it.

2: in private life people ask me personal slanted questions that if I don't answer or answer based on how I really feel they will get mad and or verbally or mentally abuse me. they have severe attitude and control problems so walking away just makes it worse, how am I supposed to deal with this? I don't want to lie.

I hate sin, especially my own and it bothers me that it seems they are pushing me into these situations, I don't know how to deal with them or how to respond and could use some advice.

thanks.

A good book to get hold of and read is "Conduct Expected". I forget the name of the author.

This is a book on how to conduct yourself at work and it shows the balance between total honesty and strategy. Sometimes, total honesty can be used against you, but there is a way in which you can be strategic without making yourself vulnerable to people who are using you for their own ends.

"Conduct Expected" is the best book I have ever read about being strategic in your dealings with employers, bosses, supervisors and work colleagues. Of course, with those closest to you in your personal life there is no fear about being open and honest because you know they won't manipulate you. But the work environment is a battleground because people there are out to better themselves at the expense of others. But you can protect yourself against this without being manipulative yourself.

Once strategy I used at work is to treat my boss as the best boss I have ever worked with. The truth is that he may be the worst, but I never let him know that. I appeared to him that I enjoyed working with him and was totally cooperative with him. He ended up eating out of my hand. When I worked with the Family Court, there was a judge who was so formal that I "bounced off" him. He never smiled and I'm sure that he treated court staff as below him. But every time I ended my duty with him I told him that I enjoyed working with him and looked forward to working with him again. After two or three more sessions with him, he smiled and greeted me in the hallway every time he saw me. After that I actually enjoyed working with him!

Another strategy is never to criticise anyone in the workplace, because it always gets back to that person and you are seen in a bad light and could be passed over for promotion, or even lose your job in the next redundancy round. Being a problem solver instead of a problem creator in the job could very well be your survival when a firm restructures and jobs are lost. If you present yourself as a problem solver, they will want to keep you on because they will see you as a valuable employee.

if your schedule changes without notice or you are given "dirt" jobs, accept them with grace and joy. This may go against your emotions and feelings of inconvenience, but those who matter in your workplace will see you as a cooperative employee worthy of more and better responsibility.

The Christian is a servant, and what better place to learn servanthood than on the job with difficult supervisors? A person's pride in these matters can be their undoing. This is not brown nosing. It is strategy.

Get the book. It will show you much more and will add to your wisdom at work.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

2: in private life people ask me personal loaded questions that if I don't answer or answer based on how I really feel they will get mad and or verbally or mentally abuse me. they have severe attitude and control problems so walking away just makes it worse, how am I supposed to deal with this? I don't want to lie.

Example: Did you go to the gym? (they demand it of me and guilt me if I don't) sometimes I'm just too worn out an tired and end up forcing myself to go too late and realizing the gym was closed. if I tell them the gym was closed when I went they will get angry.

My answer would be: "What is it about going to the gym is so important to you?" That puts the question right back at them so they have to justify their question to you. You can also agree with them that going to the gym is important. This is because you can agree in principle with anyone without having to change your behaviour. If they come back to you and say it is important for you to go to the gym, you can agree, and say, "I don't understand. What is it about going to the gym that is so important for me?" They might say, "It is the healthy thing to do". You can answer, "What is it about my being healthy that is important to you?" If you keep answering their questions in that manner, they will eventually give up.

Agreeing in principle with a criticism is called "fogging"
Asking what is so important, etc. is called positive enquiry.
The bottom line is that you don't have to justify your behaviour to anyone. They have to justify their criticism to you. Once people realise that you are not going to be manipulated, they will give up and start being honest with you.

Example of verbal or mental abuse if I don't answer: a 4 hour skype call when I'm worn out from the day and just want to sleep, they wont let me go until I give them an answer, if I hang up they'll call again, if I quit skype they'll call my phone. if I turn off the phone there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

You don't have to give them excuses for your behaviour. You don't have to justify why you don't answer them. You don't even have to give a reason. You can use fogging to agree with them that it is important to answer a Skype call, but you don't understand...what is it about that call that an answer is so important to them? Then they have to give a reason to you to justify why it was important to them that you answer their call.
There is a good book by Manuel J Smith: "When I Say No I feel Guilty". Reading this will give you a fresh, enjoyable insight in how to deal with manipulative people.

I hate sin, especially my own and it bothers me that it seems they are pushing me into these situations, I don't know how to deal with them or how to respond and could use some advice.

thanks.

Here is an example of my assertive response to your last paragraph.
I hate sin too. I think everyone should hate sin!

But I don't understand. What is it about my sin that it is so important that I should hate it so?
(How would you answer that?)
Yes. It would bother me that people are pushing me into these situations. But I don't understand. What is it about this situation that makes it so important that I be forced to deal with it right now? (How would you answer that?)

I can see that you don't know how to deal with them. And I can also see that you don't know how to respond to them.
What is it about these issues that makes it important for you or me to deal with or respond to them? (How would you answer this one?)

So, you can see by my examples how when someone serves a "ball" of criticism to me (like tennis), I hit the ball back into their court for them to respond, without me having to give any excuse, justification or reason for my behaviour.

You have the freedom to agree in principle with any criticism that is leveled against you.
You have the right to say that you don't understand and expect that they have to explain their reasons to you.
You have the right to say that you don't care if their reasons are not appropriate to you.

I trust that these strategies are helpful to you.

As an exercise in this thread, think of a criticism of me, and I will answer it.

 

[tdidymas]

I'm having trouble at work an in my personal life where the following things happen where if I don't lie I get punished.

1: at work I noticed several times now people will change my schedule over night without telling me, where I was supposed to go to work at 10 but instead they roll the whole week back to start at 9 (not daylight savings) I know for a fact I booked for 10 and not 9. but lo and behold I get up an hour early and bam I have work immediately and am late to log-in (will get a deduction if I don't lie).

this is really getting to me, if I talk to them about this they will deny deny deny that they or their system did anything wrong. But I know it's because they want me to start working earlier to suit their timezone's busy hours but for me because I also work late I can't get up that early in my timezone..

so.. they put me in a bad spot because of their lies, I don;t want to lie in response but if I don;t they'll take away some salary for it.

2: in private life people ask me personal loaded questions that if I don't answer or answer based on how I really feel they will get mad and or verbally or mentally abuse me. they have severe attitude and control problems so walking away just makes it worse, how am I supposed to deal with this? I don't want to lie.

Example: Did you go to the gym? (they demand it of me and guilt me if I don't) sometimes I'm just too worn out an tired and end up forcing myself to go too late and realizing the gym was closed. if I tell them the gym was closed when I went they will get angry.

Example of verbal or mental abuse if I don't answer: a 4 hour skype call when I'm worn out formt eh day and just want to sleep, they wont let me go until I give them an answer, if I hang up they'll call again, if I quit skype they'll call my phone. if I turn off the phone there will be hell to pay tomorrow.

I hate sin, especially my own and it bothers me that it seems they are pushing me into these situations, I don't know how to deal with them or how to respond and could use some advice.

thanks.

"You have the right to remain silent."

Just because someone asks you a question, doesn't mean you have to answer whatever comes to mind, or whatever fits their agenda. You can be honest without being foolish. But if keeping your integrity makes you appear foolish to the world, then be a "fool" for Christ. Your conscience is more important than a few bucks or popularity.
TD

 

[Sabertooth]

Jesus said [in Matthew 10:16],
“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves."

 

[joshex]

First off I'd like to thank everyone for your quick replies! and yes you were able to paint out some clear methodologies for dealing with these situations that I had not maintained in such a clear form before (though I had used them periodically) it may sound below that I'm disagreeing, but I really am taking your points into consideration and I'm sure they'll be helpful to me, so thankyou!

1. Take a photo of your schedule. Phone camera files have date stamps.
   
2. Ask God for wisdom [James 1:5-8]. Jesus had the same problem [Matthew 22:15-22].

I suppose, evidence is good, but I have supplied evidence of foul play before on other topics and they have rejected the evidence, especially in cases that challenge their system or staff's word. So if it really is a system bug or if a member of staff changed my schedule to earn themselves money on getting another student to book an hour that was more convenient than what I selected, then they will refuse to accept evidence proving they did something wrong.

Maintain your integrity. You have to answer to God for that AND trust that if they do more than just verbally abuse you, your integrity will be rewarded by God. Better to be found in his corner! And, if they fire you, imagine the stress relief you will have. Most employers want people to be honest, because they know that if you will lie for them, you will lie to them.

yeah it'd be a stress relief but then I also have no job and things are rough right now in that department. seems no serious jobs want to hire me lol.

A good book to get hold of and read is "Conduct Expected". I forget the name of the author.

This is a book on how to conduct yourself at work and it shows the balance between total honesty and strategy. Sometimes, total honesty can be used against you, but there is a way in which you can be strategic without making yourself vulnerable to people who are using you for their own ends.

"Conduct Expected" is the best book I have ever read about being strategic in your dealings with employers, bosses, supervisors and work colleagues. Of course, with those closest to you in your personal life there is no fear about being open and honest because you know they won't manipulate you.

my GF will manipulate me, she's been doing it for 8 years now. Trying to conform me to her and her family's standards. My health was sacrificed in the process and I wont get into that here as this is not a complaint post. just saying even my parents have tried to manipulate me.. it's rough sometimes but I've realized it'd just be sad to be without people even though they treat me that way. but lately I have started considering becoming a loner because more serious health problems have started to come up.

But the work environment is a battleground because people there are out to better themselves at the expense of others. But you can protect yourself against this without being manipulative yourself.

Once strategy I used at work is to treat my boss as the best boss I have ever worked with. The truth is that he may be the worst, but I never let him know that. I appeared to him that I enjoyed working with him and was totally cooperative with him. He ended up eating out of my hand. When I worked with the Family Court, there was a judge who was so formal that I "bounced off" him. He never smiled and I'm sure that he treated court staff as below him. But every time I ended my duty with him I told him that I enjoyed working with him and looked forward to working with him again. After two or three more sessions with him, he smiled and greeted me in the hallway every time he saw me. After that I actually enjoyed working with him!

Another strategy is never to criticise anyone in the workplace, because it always gets back to that person and you are seen in a bad light and could be passed over for promotion, or even lose your job in the next redundancy round. Being a problem solver instead of a problem creator in the job could very well be your survival when a firm restructures and jobs are lost. If you present yourself as a problem solver, they will want to keep you on because they will see you as a valuable employee.

if your schedule changes without notice or you are given "dirt" jobs, accept them with grace and joy. This may go against your emotions and feelings of inconvenience, but those who matter in your workplace will see you as a cooperative employee worthy of more and better responsibility.

The Christian is a servant, and what better place to learn servanthood than on the job with difficult supervisors? A person's pride in these matters can be their undoing. This is not brown nosing. It is strategy.

Get the book. It will show you much more and will add to your wisdom at work.

yeah, I'm always polite and always try hard, it wouldn't bother me about a sudden schedule change if I weren't going to be punished for being late. I after all do need the money..

Another duplicate.

why go to the gym? she has a quick answer "I want you to be muscly, people will like you better if you're muscly, it's probably why you can't find better jobs"

I've done fogging a lot to calm her down, but she just keeps insisting (doesn't give up). and asks for answers to questions that sometimes I don't have the answers to yet.

"You have the right to remain silent."

Just because someone asks you a question, doesn't mean you have to answer whatever comes to mind, or whatever fits their agenda. You can be honest without being foolish. But if keeping your integrity makes you appear foolish to the world, then be a "fool" for Christ. Your conscience is more important than a few bucks or popularity.
TD

I tried that for a week with my GF and she just kept threatening to find other guys. I really need to consider that she may not be a very nice person and probably not worth my time no matter how long I've stayed with her. (I might be giving myself these personal problems!)

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

Mod Hat On

Note: Some unintentional duplicate posts have been removed. Apparently the forum had the hiccups. Sorry about that.

Mod Hat Off

 

[com7fy8]

my GF will manipulate me, she's been doing it for 8 years now. Trying to conform me to her and her family's standards. My health was sacrificed in the process and I wont get into that here as this is not a complaint post. just saying even my parents have tried to manipulate me.. it's rough sometimes but I've realized it'd just be sad to be without people even though they treat me that way. but lately I have started considering becoming a loner because more serious health problems have started to come up.

So, that could be yoking yourself unequally with someone you should not be trusting. Pray. If you choose to stay with her, we are never excused to get bitter against any of the ladies we are involved with, however God trusts us to be involved with any lady > Ephesians 4:31-32 with Colossians 3:19.

If we choose to share with someone, it is on us to be good and a good example, including "without complaining and disputing" (Philippians 2:13-16). We are choosing to be involved with the people, and it is on us to do what God really is guiding us to choose to do (Philippians 2:13).

But we do need to submit to how God guides if and how we trust anyone. Be guided in His peace with His creativity, and hold to this. He will satisfy you and give you wisdom, in His peace > Colossians 3:15.

why go to the gym? she has a quick answer "I want you to be muscly, people will like you better if you're muscly, it's probably why you can't find better jobs"

It sounds like she is smart enough to outsmart control methods, and this can be good, because it forces you to trust the Lord for what is impossible! Only with God can we handle impossible people and cases.

May be she is reading these forums and seeing your playbook here

You might read and feed on what the Bible says happened with Paul's "thorn in the flesh" > 2 Corinthians 12:7-15. What I get is Satan was allowed to use a "messenger of Satan" to work Paul over in various ways, to find his weak spots and ego tendencies and then get to him in the weakness of his ego. So, Paul was going crazy, asking the Lord to take that thorn "thing" away. But Jesus was not going to grant Paul a miracle of convenience. Paul needed to learn to do all things in submission to God's grace which could easily keep Paul from being effected by Satan, plus God's grace would have almighty power to make Paul succeed in whatsoever God was really committed to doing with Paul.

So, in your impossible fix, we do not need a quick fix, but how we become submissive to how Jesus guides us and we are kind to the people with hope for them in caring prayer.

I tried that for a week with my GF and she just kept threatening to find other guys. I really need to consider that she may not be a very nice person and probably not worth my time no matter how long I've stayed with her. (I might be giving myself these personal problems!)

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

God's love does not have someone lording oneself over you, by intimidating and threatening you and pressuring and guilt-tripping you or charming you. And God's love makes us gentle and quiet so we are pleasing to our Father like Jesus is so pleasing . . . more and more as we grow in Christ.

So, these are priorities and special interests of Christian people in their relating. So, make sure you are a good example of this. And if she is not . . . you can offer her help with this. But we need to be examples, ourselves, with our ladies. And you can adjust your relating with her, to if and how she is really interested in Biblical sharing with you, including > Ephesians 5:21, 1 Peter 5:3, Ephesians 4:31-32, and James 5:16, with Galatians 6:1.

And Jesus does want her to love any and all people; so may be you can say, yes, honey, Jesus wants you to love any and all people and not just me

"For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

Now, in case you are abusing food so you have a weight problem, you do need to stop abusing food!! And in case you are hurting yourself, of course she is going to be on your case, if she cares about you.

I myself have been wrong in how I did not keep myself clean and a family member called me out in front of other family people. And I could get in a huff about that, feeling my family was rejecting me. But in prayer I see things differently > they did not mean to reject me, but they want me to be with them and so they care about how it will be for them > they do not want to be smelling a stink-pot!!

And I have been wrong in how I have related with people and tried to impress people with my smart-talking God's word. So, I got confronted and bent out of shape about that. And I would just leave people and churches when people disagreed with me and criticized me. But I was not rejoicing like Jesus says to do when we are persecuted; so I knew I was part of the problem, and I have been getting decades of correction by God, I would say, so I can get a clue how to relate in His love and care about any and all people.

So, I say > deal with however you really need correction, seeking how God is able to do real correction > Hebrews 12:4-11. This is not only punishing and guilt-tripping yourself so you can pay Him off to let you do some selfish pleasure again later, but God grieves our selfish nature and changes us into how we can love. And this is worth the surgery; the pain of surgery can be more intense than our selfish belly-aching about how people react to us and treat us, but then comes real loving with stability and strength and creativity to deal kindly and with pleasant patience with any person who is a problem for us. And be of an encouraging spirit with people who are wrong, ready for love with them even if they are nohow about this; at least you stay ready for love with anyone who turns out to be ready.

In other words, God bless you

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

my GF will manipulate me, she's been doing it for 8 years now. Trying to conform me to her and her family's standards. My health was sacrificed in the process and I wont get into that here as this is not a complaint post.

I tried that for a week with my GF and she just kept threatening to find other guys. I really need to consider that she may not be a very nice person and probably not worth my time no matter how long I've stayed with her. (I might be giving myself these personal problems!)

My first marriage broke up in 1980 after eight years because my wife tried to change me to comply with her and her family's standards. I welcomed some changes because they were good for me, but when she found she could not change my basic personality, she deserted me and went her own way. I married again in 1990, and my present wife and I accept each other for who we are, and God restored everything plus more that I lost because of the breakup of my first marriage. We have been married for 28 years now and have a wonderful daughter we are both proud of.

This woman may not be the woman for you, because a good woman will accept and support you, not manipulate, run you down and negatively affect your health. I believe that it will not get any better. Before I retired I was a Court victim advisor, dealing mainly with domestic violence victims. Domestic violence is not limited to physical violence. It starts with what you are experiencing right now, and it doesn't get better. At some stage it will develop into physical violence if you do not comply with her wishes. In my opinion, she is bullying you, and you need to stand up to her and her family and say an assertive and definite "No!" This may break up your relationship, but then it may be a merciful release for you and may open the opportunity to meet a woman who will be a blessing and a support for you.

I worked with the school principal once who told me, "If anyone offers or threatens to resign, I never stop them." He showed that he is not threatened by any statement like that from an employee. If your GF is threatening to see other guys, then tell her to go ahead if she cannot accept you as you are without trying to change you.

I believe that if you get married to this woman you will experience years of heartache and if it is affecting your health it may end up being the death of you. I suggest that you pray and discuss this with the Lord to possibly find a way out of the relationship without hurting her or causing further emotional or physical damage to yourself. I would warn you that the dangerous period in any domestic violence situation is when you break the relationship off, so you need to put a safety plan together.