How to combat racism

ScottA said:

Looks like that job is taken. But let me ask you (everyone should ask themselves this question): What race are your top one hundred heroes?

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What does this even mean? Why 100? What do my own personal heroes have to do with racism and prejudice?

Vylo said:

What does this even mean? Why 100? What do my own personal heroes have to do with racism and prejudice?

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I think he's saying racism doesn't exist because we have mixed race sports teams.

Never mind the fact that while people might cheer for an athlete of a different race, they wouldn't necessarily want them dating their sister.

nightflight said:

I acknowledged it from the start. You just kept not getting it, for some strange reason.

To say that the shooting was "the tip of the iceberg" was a lame attempt to treat it as police misconduct, which we all know it wasn't (otherwise our friend in Washington Eric would certainly have prosecuted Officer Darren Wilson under federal hate crimes yada yada).

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No, you don't get it. I tried to inform you but you are unwilling. Oh well.

abdAlSalam said:

How so?

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Obama made some very poor remarks publically regarding the Zimmerman case. Something along the lines of; if Martin was white, things may have turned out differently. Not only were these comments somewhat racist, but they ignored all the evidence that was presented at trial. Considering the facts in the case, a better question would have been; if Zimmerman was black, things may have been different.

Some prominent blacks in the community have also accused others of criticizing Obama, simply because he was black. Of course, they had no evidence to support this and it basically meant; since he is black, you can not criticize him.

Now, racism does exist in this country and it always will. When you have 300 million people, some are going to be racist. Is racism against blacks less today then it was 40-50 years ago? Absolutely it is, but it can still get better.

What disturbs me though, is it appears to be socially acceptable, to publically call out another person as a racist, with no evidence to support these claims. This is your classic, one step forward and two steps back.

bhsmte said:

Obama made some very poor remarks publically regarding the Zimmerman case. .

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I submit that there is nothing Obama could have said about that matter that would not have upset a large percentage of the populace. He was in a classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

dgiharris said:

I submit that there is nothing Obama could have said about that matter that would not have upset a large percentage of the populace. He was in a classic "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

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Agree, no matter what he said someone would have been upset.

With that said, making the comment that he did that things may have been different if Martin was white, not only ignored the well known evidence, it was the President actually bringing race into it. Not a good thing, for the leader of our nation, to imply race played into it and especially so, with zero evidence to support the statement.

Bad, bad decision, from a President.

bhsmte said:

Agree, no matter what he said someone would have been upset.

With that said, making the comment that he did that things may have been different if Martin was white, not only ignored the well known evidence, it was the President actually bringing race into it.

Bad, bad decision, from a President.

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Unfortunately, I have to side with Obama. If Martin had been white, the incident would have probably never happened.

dgiharris said:

Unfortunately, I have to side with Obama. If Martin had been white, the incident would have probably never happened.

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You base that on what evidence?

In my view, there is more evidence for the opposite situation; things may have been different if Zimmerman was black. We know Martin was next to his home by his conversation with his girlfriend. We know Martin made racial comments against Zimmerman according to the girlfriends testimony. We know Martin chose not to go home and instead circled back to confront Zimmerman and traveled several hundred feet to do so.

So, considering the racial comments, would Martin have gone home if he thought Zimmerman was black? Would he have circled back to confront Zimmerman if he knew Zimmerman was black?

All of this was clearly brought out at trial, with considerable evidence and is why Zimmerman was acquitted and also why, the FBI investigated him at length and found zero evidence to support racist behavior.

I stand by my statement, It was a horrible decision, for Obama to bring race into this comments, considering the facts in evidence, which he was well aware of.

Not sure what the video is, but I am quite certain, it has no bearing on the facts in the Zimmerman case.

bhsmte said:

I stand by my statement, It was a horrible decision, for Obama to bring race into this comments, considering the facts in evidence, which he was well aware of.

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Is it horrible for any black citizen to bring race into play?

stamperben said:

Is it horrible for any black citizen to bring race into play?

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The answer is obvious.

If there is evidence that race was in play, then by all means bring it up.

If there is no evidence that race was in play (including an FBI investigation of the guys life and the case), then it does much more harm than good, to pull the race card.

Crying racism for the sake of it, is productive how exactly?

The answer is obvious.

If there is evidence that race was in play, then by all means bring it up.

If there is no evidence that race was in play (including an FBI investigation of the guys life and the case), then it does much more harm than good, to pull the race card.

Crying racism for the sake of it, is productive how exactly?

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It was an election year, so it was productive for some.

I am about to commit the sin of arguing without knowing most of the facts. I refused to immerse myself in the Zimmerman case because quite honestly I'm sick of this sort of thing. I've seen it so many times growing up that i just don't care for it any more.

My scant understanding of the incident is as follows.

There were some robberies in Zimmerman's neighborhood over the past year. Zimmerman notices Martin walking around the neighborhood and Zimmerman is suspicious. Zimmerman then follows Martin. Martin walks around a while and notices Zimmerman following him. Martin then confronts Zimmerman. Zimmerman shoots in self defense.

My comments are if Martin had been white, Zimmerman would not have A) noticed him or B) felt he was suspicious or C) followed him.

If we assign a probability to A, B, and C, I feel that the probability is reduced by something like 75% for each of the parameters and thus the incident probably wouldn't have happened.

I'm not arguing whether the shooting was justified or not, I'm just arguing that a white man walking around at night in a predominantly white neighborhood is not going to garner the same notice or suspicion as a black man walking around at night in said neighborhood. And as such, the chain of events probably would have been different.

EDIT: where do I come up with my 75% figure? Just a guesstimation on my part sorta based in part whenever I'm with my white friends yet I'm the one who gets singled out for doing what we are all doing... just based on my lifetime experiences...

dgiharris said:

I am about to commit the sin of arguing without knowing most of the facts. I refused to immerse myself in the Zimmerman case because quite honestly I'm sick of this sort of thing. I've seen it so many times growing up that i just don't care for it any more.

My scant understanding of the incident is as follows.

Zimmerman notices Martin walking around the neighborhood and Zimmerman is suspicious. Zimmerman then follows Martin. Martin walks around a while and notices Zimmerman following him. Martin then confronts Zimmerman. Zimmerman shoots in self defense.

My comments are if Martin had been white, Zimmerman would not have A) noticed him or B) felt he was suspicious or C) followed him.

If we assign a probability to A, B, and C, I feel that the probability is reduced by something like 75% for each of the parameters and thus the incident probably wouldn't have happened.

I'm not arguing whether the shooting was justified or not, I'm just arguing that a white man walking around at night in a predominantly white neighborhood is not going to garner the same notice or suspicion as a black man walking around at night in said neighborhood. And as such, the chain of events probably would have been different.

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I happen to know the specifics very well and watched the entire trial and there is much more to it, then you have explained.

This is my recollection of the facts, as presented at trial.

Zimmerman noticed someone walking in the rain and walking between houses and on the lawn instead of the sidewalk. He kept track of him for a short period and decided to call 911 because he looked suspicious and especially considering, there had been a rash of burglaries in the neighborhood recently.

Per the recording of the 911 call, they asked him to describe the suspect and Zimmerman sort of struggled to describe Martin because he said he didn't get a good look at him, because it was dark. A few more moments went on and they asked Zimmerman if he could describe his race and Zimmerman responded after a few moments of looking further, that he looked black. Certainly, if Zimmerman was calling 911 simply because he identified Martin as black, he would have been able to do so immediately, but it required further examination, after he had placed the call.

Zimmerman drove around keeping track of Martin, because 911 said they needed the suspects location for police. After a while, they told Zimmerman you don't need to follow him, as police were on the way. At this point, Zimmerman got out of his truck, because he lost track of Martin and he wanted to see if he could locate him, so he could tell police when they arrived. He walked up a sidewalk to get a view of the open courtyard in the center of the buildings and this is when Martin confronted him. Now, keep in mind, the timeline of all this had Martin right next to his house, which was several hundred feet away from where he confronted Zimmerman, yet he showed up this location, shortly after telling his girlfriend has was right by his house and making racist comments about Zimmerman. It became clear at trial, that Martin chose to not go home and instead travel several hundred feet back in the direction he came, for the chance to confront Zimmerman, which he did.

Zimmerman told police Martin appeared out of the blue and asked Zimmerman if he had a problem, which Zimmerman responded no. Zimmerman then stated, Martin punched him in the face and when he was hit, he dropped his flashlight and keys at that location (which police later found at that location to match his statement). They tussled together and ended up on the sidewalk, with Martin on top of Zimmerman pounding his head against the cement. This was observed by an eye witness who testified he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman (going MMA on him). Zimmerman took the pounding for a period of time, by the eye witness testimony and the screaming heard on the 911 call of a local resident, before he pulled his gun and shot Martin.

The physical evidence of Zimmerman's injuries matched his statement and the eye witness accounts and the expert witness who was a renowned forensic pathologist stated, Zimmerman would have been stunned and in fear for his life and or serious bodily harm considering the circumstances and it was likely, if the pounding continued, he would have suffered serious damage and or rendered unconscious.

Two things here. If Zimmerman does not get out of his truck, this event likely doesn't happen and if Martin would have simply went home and not circled back to attack Zimmerman, it wouldn't have happened. Zimmerman broke no laws by trying to keep track of him as a neighborhood watch person, but when Martin decided to confront and attack Zimmerman, he committed assault. If the police would have arrived before the shooting, Martin would have likely been arrested and charged with assault. Furthermore, since Zimmerman himself called the police and new they were coming, why would he do anything illegal, knowing the police would be there any moment, but Martin did not know this.

I will say again, there was zero evidence the incident was race related or race motivated on Zimmerman's part and again, the FBI investigated him for the same. There was however, evidence that Martin's actions could have been racially motivated, by his own words to his girlfriend, shortly before the attack.

This is why, for Obama to say what he did; things may have been different if Martin was white, as wrong as it could be and also inferred Zimmerman acted from racial motivation. Not wise for any objective observer to claim and certainly a president, to help incite false racial hatred even more.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

The Liberals are telling the truth. A lot of people are racist. They learn it more from family or friends. The Liberals are just telling the truth and people don't want to listen or believe it. When you have black and Hispanic family you really see it.

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Hispanic is not a race. First learn what race is, then you can see what is and is not racism.

KarateCowboy said:

Hispanic is not a race. First learn what race is, then you can see what is and is not racism.

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Given that "race" is a completely arbitrary category, "Hispanic" absolutely can qualify as a race. If I say "hispanic race", 99/100 people will know what I'm talking about.

The Cadet said:

Given that "race" is a completely arbitrary category, "Hispanic" absolutely can qualify as a race. If I say "hispanic race", 99/100 people will know what I'm talking about.

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Tell that to black hispanics.

Besides, if it's completely arbitrary then there is no point in talking about it, because you're talking about something that literally has no definition.

"Hispanic" is an ethnicity. Not a race. This is not a matter of opinion.

The Cadet said:

Given that "race" is a completely arbitrary category, "Hispanic" absolutely can qualify as a race. If I say "hispanic race", 99/100 people will know what I'm talking about.

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White hispanics when needed.

nightflight said:

White hispanics when needed.

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I can't recall ever hearing the term; "white Hispanic" before the Zimmerman case, but maybe I wasn't paying attention.

I take it, one of Zimmerman's parents is white. Would that then mean, that we should call Obama; a white black?

nightflight said:

White hispanics when needed.

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Well, you know: race and everything is completely arbitrary. That means we can make the rules change as we need them, with the only enforcement being how strongly we emote and scream.

Armoured said:

Probably only two races in my top hundred. And one of those significantly less than the other.

But is it your contention that if someone values a sporting person of a different race, they can't be racist? That's how I'm taking you.

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Yes, admiration and racism do not mix...because, if it does, it's not racism, it's hypocrisy.