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How to bear witness to the truth of the Trinity

dlamberth

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Without the Bible it looks like there is basis for the gradual evolution, though how could human mind, or even animal mind, come through evolution? I don't really think any have good answers for that.
Consciousness has evolved as well.

But the Bible has tremendous evidence for trusting it.
I have trust in the Bible when it comes to ones relationship with the Divine. But I do not have trust in the Bible when it comes to ancient myth stores of Creation.

With its account, though there is of course always change, there was the perfection in creation that was not long and drawn out, and death, and killing, only came after the fall from that perfection, with rebellion against God. Layering of rock sediments and fossilization of creatures that died were happening only after that in we quick succession catastrophically.
Nor do I have trust in the Bible when it comes to supposed fallen states.
 
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Arius

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Take the word "Biblical" out, and I think you have something there.

Ah yes, .. just spiritual evolution, got it. That's one "wide road" to travel, been there and done that. I got it narrowed down to Biblical Spirituality, .. it explained everything for me.
Doesn't yours include the Bible version?
 
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Arius

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I think your question is dishonest. But that's just me.

I said; "Evolutionist don't believe in evolution/speciation either." They created a magical creature called; "common ancestor" that no evolutionary scientist seen, or knows what species it was, yet these "common ancestors" gave birth to the existing 8 million species we have today. Is this comment/question of mine that you felt was "dishonest"?
 
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Arius

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Consciousness has evolved as well.

Could you elaborate on that? Because the way I see it is that all creatures are pretty aware of their surroundings. Ever try to catch a rabbit in the desert?
 
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awitch

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I said; "Evolutionist don't believe in evolution/speciation either." They created a magical creature called; "common ancestor" that no evolutionary scientist seen, or knows what species it was, yet these "common ancestors" gave birth to the existing 8 million species we have today. Is this comment/question of mine that you felt was "dishonest"?

[Christians] created a magical creature called "god" that no one has ever seen, yet created the existing 8 million species we have today. But you're completely on board with that, right?
 
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dlamberth

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Ah yes, .. just spiritual evolution, got it. That's one "wide road" to travel, been there and done that. I got it narrowed down to Biblical Spirituality, .. it explained everything for me.
That works for you. I'm glad that you have found your path. That's a good thing.

Doesn't yours include the Bible version?
Mostly, mine centers around the ONLY sacred manuscript directly written by the hand of God and signed off with His signature which would be Nature and this Creation. I've heard it called Creation Spirituality. But also, God, as I experience my Beloved is totally and completely inclusive of ALL! There is no one and nothing that exist that is excluded.
 
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dlamberth

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Could you elaborate on that? Because the way I see it is that all creatures are pretty aware of their surroundings. Ever try to catch a rabbit in the desert?
In looking at the earth and the evolution of life on it, first there was dust and rocks that came together to form this body in space we call "Earth". There's a type of consciousness in that act of bonding together, or claims the mystic types. Out of that bundle of rock the first elements of life came to be. which have a higher degree of consciousness than the rock and dust. Plants evolved from those first life forms with yet a higher degree of consciousness. And than the first animals evolved with yet a higher degree of consciousness, like your rabbit. And things moved along, evolving over time until we have the highest consciousness on Earth, the Human Being. What comes next in that evolution of consciousness I think is a valid question to look at. Some say a Christ like consciousness will awaken.
 
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dlamberth

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I said; "Evolutionist don't believe in evolution/speciation either." They created a magical creature called; "common ancestor" that no evolutionary scientist seen, or knows what species it was, yet these "common ancestors" gave birth to the existing 8 million species we have today. Is this comment/question of mine that you felt was "dishonest"?
The dishonest part that I saw had more to do with the way you posed the question with the knowledge that I know you have about evolution. That's because I know that you know that time has erased any physical remains of that common ancestor.
 
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Arius

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That works for you. I'm glad that you have found your path. That's a good thing.


Mostly, mine centers around the ONLY sacred manuscript directly written by the hand of God and signed off with His signature which would be Nature and this Creation. I've heard it called Creation Spirituality. But also, God, as I experience my Beloved is totally and completely inclusive of ALL! There is no one and nothing that exist that is excluded.

Thanks dlamberth, I think we're talking about the same Creator, up to the point that "no one and nothing is excluded".
I mean don't you think creation works best for us created when we put an end to the "destroyer"m whether in us, or any outside force? How could we allow destroyers to remain if we are to continue to enjoy Gods creation?
 
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awitch

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I mean don't you think creation works best for us created when we put an end to the "destroyer"m whether in us, or any outside force? How could we allow destroyers to remain if we are to continue to enjoy Gods creation?

"Any outside force"?
I wonder if scripture ever references God destroying anything.
 
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Arius

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The dishonest part that I saw had more to do with the way you posed the question with the knowledge that I know you have about evolution. That's because I know that you know that time has erased any physical remains of that common ancestor.

That would mean that evolution has stopped. If Evolution is an ongoing process, without at least 8 million "common ancestors" who are either ready to give birth to new species, or in the process of changing themselves, .. but if it's as you said: "time has erased any physical remains of that common ancestor", then evolution must have stopped!?

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I am speaking about the "common ancestor" of all species, not just the human apes.
 
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Arius

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"Any outside force"?
I wonder if scripture ever references God destroying anything.

The OT is full of references to destruction of the wicked, ever hear of Noah's Flood, and the destruction of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, and other corrupted nations?
And the New Testament prophesies the ultimate destruction, including our heavens (air, stars) and the earth and everything on it.
 
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dlamberth

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That would mean that evolution has stopped. If Evolution is an ongoing process, without at least 8 million "common ancestors" who are either ready to give birth to new species, or in the process of changing themselves, .. but if it's as you said: "time has erased any physical remains of that common ancestor", then evolution must have stopped!?
Change does not stop in this Universe.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, I am speaking about the "common ancestor" of all species, not just the human apes.

Yes, I understand that your looking for something that existed a billion years ago are expecting it to exist today.
 
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dlamberth

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I mean don't you think creation works best for us created when we put an end to the "destroyer"m whether in us, or any outside force?
One of my biggest criticism of the Christian religion is in how silent they are with the ongoing desecration and rape of the Earth, all in the name of greed. And further more it's members even seem to take an active part in that destructive activity. With that connection, are you suggesting the destruction of Christianity?

How could we allow destroyers to remain if we are to continue to enjoy Gods creation?
That's a great question. Ask your fellow believers why they do not enjoy this Creation as "Sacred". It is God's Creation after all. Knowing that the Earth is Sacred changes a person, activates a person to defend, and protect and celebrate the Earth. If the Christian Church is not out there defending the Earth, it seems to me that they are actively participating in destroying it. I agree...how can we allow those destroyer to remain.
 
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Arius

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Change does not stop in this Universe.

Which means that the 8 million existing living-species are continuously evolving. If this is so, we should see this 'transition' from the existing species into another all the time, but here is what you said-

Yes, I understand that your looking for something that existed a billion years ago are expecting it to exist today.

So evolution only happened billions of years ago? I thought "change" does not stop in the universe?
 
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Arius

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One of my biggest criticism of the Christian religion is in how silent they are with the ongoing desecration and rape of the Earth, all in the name of greed. And further more it's members even seem to take an active part in that destructive activity. With that connection, are you suggesting the destruction of Christianity?

I'm sure you know well my stance on the Christian Religion, I was put on probation twice already because of it.
The answer is yes, when Christ returns, he will put an end to all Religions, and destroy all their gods, including the creators; Mother Nature, Father Time and their son Gravity.

That's a great question. Ask your fellow believers why they do not enjoy this Creation as "Sacred". It is God's Creation after all. Knowing that the Earth is Sacred changes a person, activates a person to defend, and protect and celebrate the Earth. If the Christian Church is not out there defending the Earth, it seems to me that they are actively participating in destroying it. I agree...how can we allow those destroyer to remain.

Like I said, you can say these things but I can't, cause three strikes and I'm off this sight permanently.
Besides, my "fellow Believers" would not be Christians.
 
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dlamberth

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Which means that the 8 million existing living-species are continuously evolving. If this is so, we should see this 'transition' from the existing species into another all the time, but here is what you said-

So evolution only happened billions of years ago? I thought "change" does not stop in the universe?
What works for me in how I experience my Beloved Creator God is just that...a Creator with an ongoing Creating process that continues on and on and on for eternity with evolution at every level being the process in how God Creates. And what backs that up is when I look at the changes of the cosmos as well as this Earth over long periods of time, that's what I see.
 
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Arius

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What works for me in how I experience my Beloved Creator God is just that...a Creator with an ongoing Creating process that continues on and on and on for eternity with evolution at every level being the process in how God Creates. And what backs that up is when I look at the changes of the cosmos as well as this Earth over long periods of time, that's what I see.

Yes, some trust cosmology, alchemy and fortune telling by looking at the changes in the cosmos to understand how the universe and man evolved over very long periods of time. Me, I trust what I observe of the here and now (science), and what history the Bible tells me.

You still didn't explain how speciation happens with, or by your Beloved Creator God? Would the "changes in the cosmos" explain that?
 
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dlamberth

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Yes, some trust cosmology, alchemy and fortune telling by looking at the changes in the cosmos to understand how the universe and man evolved over very long periods of time. Me, I trust what I observe of the here and now (science), and what history the Bible tells me.
What can I say. We're all playing with different attributes. Some can do some stuff that others are unable too do, and the others can do other stuff. The Christian Earth Mystics are the kind of people who grab my attention.

You still didn't explain how speciation happens with, or by your Beloved Creator God?
I'm unable to explain any of that stuff. I'm also unable to explain the consciousness with in the life force that permeates the whole of Creation. Or the Divine Light that illuminates the same. I don't believe a person can see it through the eyes of duality though. Its' not just me, there are many, both Christians and others who know what I'm pointing towards.

Would the "changes in the cosmos" explain that?
The evolutionary changes that the cosmos naturally go through would certainly be an aspect. It's not something that's separate, but united and One with it.
 
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Arius

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What can I say. We're all playing with different attributes. Some can do some stuff that others are unable too do, and the others can do other stuff. The Christian Earth Mystics are the kind of people who grab my attention.


I'm unable to explain any of that stuff. I'm also unable to explain the consciousness with in the life force that permeates the whole of Creation. Or the Divine Light that illuminates the same. I don't believe a person can see it through the eyes of duality though. Its' not just me, there are many, both Christians and others who know what I'm pointing towards.

The evolutionary changes that the cosmos naturally go through would certainly be an aspect. It's not something that's separate, but united and One with it.

Thank you dlamberth, .. I was referring to the Big-Bang cosmos which started with chaos, and is expanding, ripping the Fabric of Spacetime:

Space.com - Space itself is pulling apart at the seams, expanding at a rate of 74.3 plus or minus 2.1 kilometers (46.2 plus or minus 1.3 miles) per second per megaparsec (a megaparsec is roughly 3 million light-years). If those numbers are a little too much to contemplate, rest assured that's really, really fast.
 
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