How to Authentically Speak in Tongues

[Presbyterian Continuist]

No, Paul is clear that tongues is a sign for the unbeliever as opposed to prophesy being a sign to believers. This is also exactly how tongues operated in every example in Scripture.

That said, I understand those who advocate tongues as a higher gift for every believer (in opposition to Paul's words that prophesy is a better gift, and prophesy not even given to every believer) will reason away any passage to the contrary.

And that is fine. I do not prescribe how others worship. Christ can make them stand.

My opposition is not against tongues but against Christians who arrogantly ignore Scripture to judge that all Christians should seek the gift.

It is not arrogantly ignoring Scripture for all Christians to seek the gift of tongues. Paul definitely said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit [ie: Scripture], "I would that you all speak in tongues". Therefore, those who seek the gift of tongues are merely following Paul in what he said. The fact that he said concerning his desire that they all speak in tongues gives the Christian assurance through Holy Spirit inspired Scripture that he can seek the gift and expect to receive it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Mark 16:17–18 “These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

First, the statement is these signs will ACCOMPANY those who believe. I agree that it is those who believe that posses these gifts. But tongues for the unbeliever, not for those who believe.

In Scripture tongues were a testimony to the unbeliever. Look at Pentecost.

Second, these gifts (tongues, casting out demons, surviving picking up serpents and drinking poison, healing) accompanying believers doesn't mean that every believer speaks in tongues, casts out demons, picks up serpents and drinks poison, and heals the sick.

I think we have exhausted any fruitfulness here. You are looking to Scripture to support your position (and to advocate all practice as you believe) rather than looking to Scripture in order to form a belief.

My question was how tongues are practiced in Pentecostal churches as I have never been a member. You explained that one, or two at the most, speak in tongues and there is an interpreter. I appreciate the info.

The elephant in the room is that if Paul is teaching that without an interpreter one should speak to himself and to God, then the speaking in tongues is done privately and not publicly, therefore there would be no unbelievers to hear it because the only Person listening is God. So, how could that form of tongues be specifically for the unbeliever. It is unwise to form a doctrine about tongues just on one sole verse in 1 Corinthians 14, without encompassing all of the teaching in the chapter.

 

[John Caldwell]

It is not arrogantly ignoring Scripture for all Christians to seek the gift of tongues. Paul definitely said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit [ie: Scripture], "I would that you all speak in tongues". Therefore, those who seek the gift of tongues are merely following Paul in what he said. The fact that he said concerning his desire that they all speak in tongues gives the Christian assurance through Holy Spirit inspired Scripture that he can seek the gift and expect to receive it.

I'm not saying it is ignoring Scripture to seek any spiritual gift. God gives as His people needs for His purposes. He is the "Good Father".

Of course, while I would that all speak in tongues as well, I am not so arrogant to say all should speak in tongues. I don't.

I am saying that it is wrong to use gifts in ways God has prohibited those gifts to be used.

Kingdom work is done in kingdom ways. God may use disobedience for His purposes, but God does not bless disobedience.

 

[John Caldwell]

The elephant in the room is that if Paul is teaching that without an interpreter one should speak to himself and to God, then the speaking in tongues is done privately and not publicly, therefore there would be no unbelievers to hear it because the only Person listening is God. So, how could that form of tongues be specifically for the unbeliever. It is unwise to form a doctrine about tongues just on one sole verse in 1 Corinthians 14, without encompassing all of the teaching in the chapter.

Yes. And that is exactly what Paul is saying.

If one speaks in tongues without an interpreter they do this at home for spiritual benefit. The unbeliever hears one speaking in tongues as a sign the interpretation is of God. Tongues are a sign for the unbeliever.

Ironically we are talking about whether one passage is worthy of obedience while ignoring that every example of tongues spoken publically in Scripture was as a sign for the unbeliever to believe the interpreted message.

 

[ARBITER01]

A lot do speak in tongues without an interpreter, and in congregations. I know tongues is practiced in many religions. I can't say it is gibberish in any case.

What I can say is that Scripture gives instruction on speaking in tongues within a congregation. I believe going against God's instructions (in any matter) whether genuine or gibberish, is disobedience constituting sin.

I will note that I'm just speaking of tongues in congregations. Paul does speak of praying in tongues where the mind is not edified but the spirit benefits.

Some people develop bad habits in Christianity. The "praying" portion of tongues can be operated by us at any time, which tends to create problems when you see someone on TV do that while they are preaching.

 

[John Caldwell]

Some people develop bad habits in Christianity. The "praying" portion of tongues can be operated by us at any time, which tends to create problems when you see someone on TV do that while they are preaching.

In a way it is like any gift. Take money. As Christians we can use money in godly ways or ungodly ways. But much of the time our misuse of money is poor spending habits, or perhaps not understanding stewardship.

I'm guilty of misusing some gifts God has given me, so I am in no way being judgmental regarding the gift of tongues.

We are God's children, endowed by His gift of the Spirit. Yet in this life we also suffer from the condition of being fallible human beings. We need to remember that and extend grace to one another because no amount we extend comes close to the grace God showed us.

That said, if we cannot come together and look at how gifts should be used by examining God's instruction then we are in bad shape.

 

[ARBITER01]

In a way it is like any gift. Take money. As Christians we can use money in godly ways or ungodly ways. But much of the time our misuse of money is poor spending habits, or perhaps not understanding stewardship.

I'm guilty of misusing some gifts God has given me, so I am in no way being judgmental regarding the gift of tongues.

We are God's children, endowed by His gift of the Spirit. Yet in this life we also suffer from the condition of being fallible human beings. We need to remember that and extend grace to one another because no amount we extend comes close to the grace God showed us.

That said, if we cannot come together and look at how gifts should be used by examining God's instruction then we are in bad shape.

Very well said.

There is a discipline to using the gifts,.. where, when, and how, etc. Everything to be done decently and in order.

If I just launch off in my prayer tongue on TV, then some people are expecting me to give an interpretation, and when I don't it confuses them,... hence why people start thinking that some Pentecostal and Charismatic types are not operating in the proper gift of tongues.

Personally, I believe that if a person wants to operate in the greater gifts, they better learn how to properly operate the gifts GOD has already given them.

EDIT: Not that I am on TV,.....just an example.

 

[Berserk]

John Caldwell: "I have (and do) experience the Holy Spirit as a teacher. Sometimes what has been taught comes as a surprise to me."

That comment suggests that you've experienced the spontaneous flow of thought that stems from "walking in the Spirit." Remember, in secular usage, "living water" is flowing water. The Spirit joins with the nonrational flow of thoughts in your mind, occasionally creating surprises, like the unexpected realization I have sometimes had that the person I'm deal with will die within a day or two--a premonition that has ALWAYS come true!


John Caldwell: "I do have a question about praying in tongues. I have prayed without articulating words (hard to explain)."

Sometimes we reach out to God with a longing that transcends coherent speech as it intensifies or we get "lost in praise" and beautifully lose the ability to accurately articulate what we feel. It is through such longings inwardly expressed as inarticulate "groans" or "sighs" (stenagmoi alaletai" in Rom. 8:26 can mean both.) that the Spirit intercedes for what we really unconsciously need (Rom. 8:26). Praying in tongues is just one way this can happen.

John Caldwell: "But Paul indicates praying in tongues not to edify the mind but benefitting the spirit...Can you speak to "praying in tongues"?"

Here are 3 experienced-based comments on our question:
(1) When I spoke in tongues, wave after wave of every intensifying love engulfed me and gradually united me with God so intimately that I feared my ego would be absorbed in God mind. Very scary, but by far the high point of my life--as it would be of yours, I'm sure! A spectator stared in awe because, as she later said, my face was glowing in the darkened amphitheater. A visiting Lutheran pastor later expressed his skepticism of tongues to me. I just touched his forehead gently and he exploded in other tongues!
(2) For me speaking in tongues immediately served as a gateway experience for other spiritual gifts, like prophecy and the word of knowledge.
(3) When I joined YWAM (Youth with a Mission) at age 19, we spent much of the summer witnessing door to door in the streets across eastern Canada. I soon had the good fortune to be paired with Ken. At the end of hot July days, we rested, usually in church basements, but Ken was on his knees, speaking in tongues for power to witness. Then he would go out after supper and witness door to door again. Curious, I soon joined him. Strangers were mesmerized by his simple witness and usually agreed to pray the sinner's prayer with us. I thought I explained the Gospel in a more winsome way, but learned to be Ken's silent prayer partner because his verbal witness was so much more effective than mine. I'm confident his secret was to regularly pray in tongues prior to going out. Ken recognized a biblical truth that I ignored--that Spirit baptism, evidenced by tongues, imbues us with the power to witness (so Acts 1:8; cp. 2:4).

 

[John Caldwell]

John Caldwell: "I have (and do) experience the Holy Spirit as a teacher. Sometimes what has been taught comes as a surprise to me."

That comment suggests that you've experienced the spontaneous flow of thought that stems from "walking in the Spirit." Remember, in secular usage, "living water" is flowing water. The Spirit joins with the nonrational flow of thoughts in your mind, occasionally creating surprises, like the unexpected realization I have sometimes had that the person I'm deal with will die within a day or two--a premonition that has ALWAYS come true!


John Caldwell: "I do have a question about praying in tongues. I have prayed without articulating words (hard to explain)."

Sometimes we reach out to God with a longing that transcends coherent speech as it intensifies or we get "lost in praise" and beautifully lose the ability to accurately articulate what we feel. It is through such longings inwardly expressed as inarticulate "groans" or "sighs" (stenagmoi alaletai" in Rom. 8:26 can mean both.) that the Spirit intercedes for what we really unconsciously need (Rom. 8:26). Praying in tongues is just one way this can happen.

John Caldwell: "But Paul indicates praying in tongues not to edify the mind but benefitting the spirit...Can you speak to "praying in tongues"?"

Here are 3 experienced-based comments on our question:
(1) When I spoke in tongues, wave after wave of every intensifying love engulfed me and gradually united me with God so intimately that I feared my ego would be absorbed in God mind. Very scary, but by far the high point of my life--as it would be of yours, I'm sure! A spectator stared in awe because, as she later said, my face was glowing in the darkened amphitheater. A visiting Lutheran pastor later expressed his skepticism of tongues to me. I just touched his forehead gently and he exploded in other tongues!
(2) For me speaking in tongues immediately served as a gateway experience for other spiritual gifts, like prophecy and the word of knowledge.
(3) When I joined YWAM (Youth with a Mission) at age 19, we spent much of the summer witnessing door to door in the streets across eastern Canada. I soon had the good fortune to be paired with Ken. At the end of hot July days, we rested, usually in church basements, but Ken was on his knees, speaking in tongues for power to witness. Then he would go out after supper and witness door to door again. Curious, I soon joined him. Strangers were mesmerized by his simple witness and usually agreed to pray the sinner's prayer with us. I thought I explained the Gospel in a more winsome way, but learned to be Ken's silent prayer partner because his verbal witness was so much more effective than mine. I'm confident his secret was to regularly pray in tongues prior to going out. Ken recognized a biblical truth that I ignored--that Spirit baptism, evidenced by tongues, imbues us with the power to witness (so Acts 1:8; cp. 2:4).

Thank you for your insight & opinions.

I also believe in baptism of the Spirit (regardless of being accompanied by tongues) and have been dismayed at a growing distrust of spiritual things in favor of pure intellect within certain circles. The flip side, of course, is slipping theology in favor of the experiential.

I'm not sure when, or why, some churches started believing they have constructed an adequate God boxes.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

A lot do speak in tongues without an interpreter, and in congregations. I know tongues is practiced in many religions. I can't say it is gibberish in any case.

What I can say is that Scripture gives instruction on speaking in tongues within a congregation. I believe going against God's instructions (in any matter) whether genuine or gibberish, is disobedience constituting sin.

I will note that I'm just speaking of tongues in congregations. Paul does speak of praying in tongues where the mind is not edified but the spirit benefits.

If Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit counsels against public speaking in tongues without interpreters present, then it is effectively the Holy Spirit giving that counsel. If people wilfully refuse the counsel and insist on speaking out loud in tongues during services, then that amounts to refusing the Holy Spirit Himself. It then stands to follow that the Holy Spirit is not involved in the tongues speaking. And if the Holy Spirit is not involved, then those who are prattling away in tongues in public services are not using the spiritual gift of tongues but are speaking made-up gibberish.

1 Corinthians 14 is the only definitive chapter that gives teaching on how tongues should be used, in private and public. Paul goes to some lengths to show why tongues without interpretation should not be spoken in public services. We are not talking about a couple of random verses here. We are talking about a significant amount of the chapter. Therefore the way many Pentecostals and Charismatics are speaking out loud in tongues during services amounts to flagrant disobedience to an express command of the Holy Spirit. It stands to reason that the Holy Spirit would never support anything that is clearly disobedient to His will.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I'm not saying it is ignoring Scripture to seek any spiritual gift. God gives as His people needs for His purposes. He is the "Good Father".

Of course, while I would that all speak in tongues as well, I am not so arrogant to say all should speak in tongues. I don't.

I am saying that it is wrong to use gifts in ways God has prohibited those gifts to be used.

Kingdom work is done in kingdom ways. God may use disobedience for His purposes, but God does not bless disobedience.

To impose a "you should", which is something Paul did not say, is to take away the freedom we have in Christ. We have been set free from all obligation to follow any commands. We are free not to sin, to serve God from our hearts, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and seek any gift of the Spirit that may suit our service and ministry in the Lord.

While I was in the Pentecostal movement (1966-1979) I received the gift of prophecy and interpretation of tongues, and I used those gifts during those years. When I left the movement and fellowshipped in Anglican, Baptist, and Presbyterian churches, I no longer used those gifts, because they were not appropriate in those settings. I used other gifts such as administration and helps, and had the ministries of pastor and teacher. But when I got involved in a prophetic ministry run by a long-time friend, I went back into using my prophetic gifts (2006-2018) during the prophetic equipping evenings and all-day conferences. But in my Presbyterian church I didn't use them. What this shows is that I have the choice to either decide to use the prophetic gifts or not to use them. I was, and am under no obligation to use the gifts in any environment. If my present Union church (Methodist/Presbyterian) became Charismatic and there was a demand for the prophetic gifts, I then could choose to use them again.

This shows that the Holy Spirit can bestow a gift for a particular environment, but withdraw it when the environment changes. I know that it would be great for tongues and prophecy, along with the other gifts to be used in all the churches I have fellowshiped with, but because the environment hasn't supported them, I have chosen not to use them. This doesn't mean that I am disobeying a directive from God, but am using my choice based on wisdom.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yes. And that is exactly what Paul is saying.

If one speaks in tongues without an interpreter they do this at home for spiritual benefit. The unbeliever hears one speaking in tongues as a sign the interpretation is of God. Tongues are a sign for the unbeliever.

Ironically we are talking about whether one passage is worthy of obedience while ignoring that every example of tongues spoken publically in Scripture was as a sign for the unbeliever to believe the interpreted message.

Where tongues and interpretation are used in the public service, that can be the sign for unbelievers as well as for edifying the body of Christ. This is consistent with Holy Spirit teaching in 1 Corinthians 14. But babbling in tongues without interpretation in public services is going against Holy Spirit teaching and therefore would mean nothing to God and to the people who hear it.

 

[John Caldwell]

If Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit counsels against public speaking in tongues without interpreters present, then it is effectively the Holy Spirit giving that counsel. If people wilfully refuse the counsel and insist on speaking out loud in tongues during services, then that amounts to refusing the Holy Spirit Himself.

I'm not sure we can definitely say either way. Perhaps those "speaking in tongues" in an unbiblical manner are experiencing a phenomenon (glossolalia) that worshippers encounter in many religions. Perhaps they are sincere but wrong. Maybe they are trying to appear to have a gift they have not been given.

But could they not also be practicing a spiritual gift incorrectly? The reason I ask is that Paul seems to be addressing a problem in the Corinth church, and he gives instruction, but he does not discount the gift itself (he just tells them not to misuse what was given).

Look at people who were given the gift of teaching. This does not mean these men and women can make no mistake in their teaching. And if they do hold an error, it does not nullify that God gave then the gift of teaching.

That said, I do believe there is an issue of responsibility (Paul warns of this with teachers). Gifts used unbiblically (whether tongues, preaching, wealth...whatever) runs the risk of damaging one's testimony.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Very well said.

There is a discipline to using the gifts,.. where, when, and how, etc. Everything to be done decently and in order.

If I just launch off in my prayer tongue on TV, then some people are expecting me to give an interpretation, and when I don't it confuses them,... hence why people start thinking that some Pentecostal and Charismatic types are not operating in the proper gift of tongues.

Personally, I believe that if a person wants to operate in the greater gifts, they better learn how to properly operate the gifts GOD has already given them.

EDIT: Not that I am on TV,.....just an example.

Although generally, speaking out loud in tongues without interpretation is against the express instruction by the Holy Spirit, there have been times when a person has been moved to speak out in tongues and the language has been understood by a native speaker of the language. This is a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit for the express purpose of instructing that native speaker of the language in a way that convinces him that God is on his case. This is a prime example when tongues are used as a sign to an unbeliever, or for someone who is so discouraged that they are on the verse of giving up the faith.

Examples of this are: A European man spoke in tongues in a meeting, and a young Cantonese woman heard the man say in her language, "You need to be born again." Consequently that young woman went forward and received Christ. In another meeting, a native of Wales heard a woman speaking Welsh without the trace of an accent. The woman speaking was not Welsh, and therefore there was no way that she could speak the language that perfectly. The Welsh woman knew without a doubt that the Holy Spirit was present in that meeting and it had a dynamic effect on her. Although most of the early Pentecostals who went to India and China in the belief that if they preached in tongues they would be understood, and failed completely, there have been times when a missionary has actually spoken in tongues and was understood by his listeners with the effect that almost the whole village turned to Christ. There is the story about St Francis of Assisi, who knew only Italian and not French, encountered a group of French peasants, and prayed for God to help him preach the gospel to them. A number of words came to mind and when he spoke them, the peasants answered him in the same language. He realised that God had given him the ability to speak in French so he went on and preached the Gospel to them, with the result that they turned to Christ. There is the story about an American Christian lady who wanted to preach the Gospel to Italian immigrants, and was given the supernatural ability to speak Italian, and never lost the ability to speak the language for the rest of her life.

In my own experience, I was praying quietly in tongues during a service, and the New Zealand Maori lady sitting beside me told me that God spoke encouraging things to her in the Maori language, a language I had never learned and had no idea I was speaking it. A friend of mine who knew only English and it seems that he only knew a few words in tongues was in prayer meeting when a visitor from Ghana was present. The visitor from Ghana became very excited and told my friend that he was praising God in his own rural village dialect.

These are examples of how tongues can be used as a sign to unbelievers and those believers who need total assurance that God knows and loves them.

 

[ARBITER01]

Although generally, speaking out loud in tongues without interpretation is against the express instruction by the Holy Spirit, there have been times when a person has been moved to speak out in tongues and the language has been understood by a native speaker of the language. This is a sovereign act of the Holy Spirit for the express purpose of instructing that native speaker of the language in a way that convinces him that God is on his case. This is a prime example when tongues are used as a sign to an unbeliever, or for someone who is so discouraged that they are on the verse of giving up the faith.

Examples of this are: A European man spoke in tongues in a meeting, and a young Cantonese woman heard the man say in her language, "You need to be born again." Consequently that young woman went forward and received Christ. In another meeting, a native of Wales heard a woman speaking Welsh without the trace of an accent. The woman speaking was not Welsh, and therefore there was no way that she could speak the language that perfectly. The Welsh woman knew without a doubt that the Holy Spirit was present in that meeting and it had a dynamic effect on her. Although most of the early Pentecostals who went to India and China in the belief that if they preached in tongues they would be understood, and failed completely, there have been times when a missionary has actually spoken in tongues and was understood by his listeners with the effect that almost the whole village turned to Christ. There is the story about St Francis of Assisi, who knew only Italian and not French, encountered a group of French peasants, and prayed for God to help him preach the gospel to them. A number of words came to mind and when he spoke them, the peasants answered him in the same language. He realised that God had given him the ability to speak in French so he went on and preached the Gospel to them, with the result that they turned to Christ. There is the story about an American Christian lady who wanted to preach the Gospel to Italian immigrants, and was given the supernatural ability to speak Italian, and never lost the ability to speak the language for the rest of her life.

In my own experience, I was praying quietly in tongues during a service, and the New Zealand Maori lady sitting beside me told me that God spoke encouraging things to her in the Maori language, a language I had never learned and had no idea I was speaking it. A friend of mine who knew only English and it seems that he only knew a few words in tongues was in prayer meeting when a visitor from Ghana was present. The visitor from Ghana became very excited and told my friend that he was praising God in his own rural village dialect.

These are examples of how tongues can be used as a sign to unbelievers and those believers who need total assurance that God knows and loves them.

We've been over this already.

This gift does not operate in human languages Oscarr. If you want to fool others about that, go ahead, maybe they will listen to you.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We've been over this already.

This gift does not operate in human languages Oscarr. If you want to fool others about that, go ahead, maybe they will listen to you.

I am only going on the testimonies I had read over the years, and those of people that I know personally. My friend and the Ghanaian visitor had no reason to lie about something as significant as that, and the experience was witnessed by all the 20 people in that prayer meeting. Also, Mrs Samuels, the Maori lady who told me that I spoke Maori language had no reason to lie when she said that she heard me speaking Maori. None of these people had anything to prove, None of them knew the theology behind the gift of tongues, whether it is human or angelic languages. Maybe under normal circumstances tongues may not be human languages, but this does not prevent God doing a sovereign act and cause a person to speak a human language when He chooses that this would be appropriate. Just because some have a theology that tongues are angelic, not human languages, they don't have the right to counsel God when He decides to use tongues as a sign to someone that He is real and present by using someone to speak their unique language, such as in the case of Cantonese, Welsh, Ghanaian rural dialect and Maori language in European-based church services.

I know that Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland teach that God can do only what they give Him permission to do, but in fact, God doesn't need our permission to anything He wants to do. The Scripture says that God does what He pleases in heaven and in earth (Psalm 135:6). So, if God decides to use a person's tongue to give a definite message to a foreigner in their native language, who are we to tell Him that He can't?

 

[ARBITER01]

I am only going on the testimonies I had read over the years, and those of people that I know personally. My friend and the Ghanaian visitor had no reason to lie about something as significant as that, and the experience was witnessed by all the 20 people in that prayer meeting. Also, Mrs Samuels, the Maori lady who told me that I spoke Maori language had no reason to lie when she said that she heard me speaking Maori. None of these people had anything to prove, None of them knew the theology behind the gift of tongues, whether it is human or angelic languages. Maybe under normal circumstances tongues may not be human languages, but this does not prevent God doing a sovereign act and cause a person to speak a human language when He chooses that this would be appropriate. Just because some have a theology that tongues are angelic, not human languages, they don't have the right to counsel God when He decides to use tongues as a sign to someone that He is real and present by using someone to speak their unique language, such as in the case of Cantonese, Welsh, Ghanaian rural dialect and Maori language in European-based church services.

I know that Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis and Kenneth Copeland teach that God can do only what they give Him permission to do, but in fact, God doesn't need our permission to anything He wants to do. The Scripture says that God does what He pleases in heaven and in earth (Psalm 135:6). So, if God decides to use a person's tongue to give a definite message to a foreigner in their native language, who are we to tell Him that He can't?

Oscarr, you talk about wanting to follow scripture, yet you don't,... and make excuses not to it seems.

Corinthians is absolutely clear on this issue you keep bringing up,...

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It doesn't mean that sometimes the gift can speak understandable language, it says no one can understand because it is a mysterious language, period.

I don't care what someone else says about their experiences when scripture is this clear about it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

We've been over this already.

This gift does not operate in human languages Oscarr. If you want to fool others about that, go ahead, maybe they will listen to you.

By the way, let's look closely at the Scripture verse that supposedly supports tongues being angelic and not human
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal" (1 Corinthians 13:1).

It seems that the verse doesn't fully support tongues being exclusively non-human languages. If that was the case then the verse should have read, "Though I speak with the tongues of angels, etc." But the verse doesn't say that. Paul says that if he speaks with the tongues of men and of angels." What this means is that you cannot use the verse as support for tongues being exclusively non-human languages, because if the verse is going to be used to support the languages of tongues, then they have to be the languages of men (human) and of angels (non human). Otherwise you are making Paul say something different to what he actually said.

So, if you are going to maintain that the language of tongues is non-human, then where does the Scripture say that apart from 1 Corinthians 13:1?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Oscarr, you talk about wanting to follow scripture, yet you don't,... and make excuses not to it seems.

Corinthians is absolutely clear on this issue you keep bringing up,...

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

It doesn't mean that sometimes the gift can speak understandable language, it says no one can understand because it is a mysterious language, period.

I don't care what someone else says about their experiences when scripture is this clear about it.

So, you are saying that all those people who heard tongues being spoken in their native languages and either turned to Christ or had a dynamic experience of the reality and presence of God, are liars?

 

[ARBITER01]

By the way, let's look closely at the Scripture verse that supposedly supports tongues being angelic and not human
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal" (1 Corinthians 13:1).

It seems that the verse doesn't fully support tongues being exclusively non-human languages. If that was the case then the verse should have read, "Though I speak with the tongues of angels, etc." But the verse doesn't say that. Paul says that if he speaks with the tongues of men and of angels." What this means is that you cannot use the verse as support for tongues being exclusively non-human languages, because if the verse is going to be used to support the languages of tongues, then they have to be the languages of men (human) and of angels (non human). Otherwise you are making Paul say something different to what he actually said.

So, if you are going to maintain that the language of tongues is non-human, then where does the Scripture say that apart from 1 Corinthians 13:1?

Oscarr, that was a poor example.

We don't pit scripture against scripture. Scripture is to agree with scripture, and that is because it has the same author throughout the books, The Holy Spirit.

The gift of tongues requires the gift of interpretation to understand it, that's why that gift was given, hence why 1 Cor 14 states what it states. Tongues is not understandable without that gift revealing what was said.