How to answer the bible errors

[Jerushabelle]

That is not what i am asking you. Please clarify your answer with scripture.

You already know the Scripture involving this and you already know the Scripture used to argue the point.
1Timothy, Chapter 2 is what supports.
Galations 3:28 is typically quoted to argue the point regardless of the fact that Paul is talking about salvation being available to all not women leading men before God in worship; a reiteration of that would be found in Romans 10:12, "For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile -- the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, 'Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'" (so much for the doctrine of the elect).

 

[Jerushabelle]

Jerushabelle, if you are being honest, that you would love to worship with those who hold totally different views than you (may have) I agree...i would love it too...because it would mean that we are all seeing scripture the same.

Actually, no, that is not what it would mean. It would mean that we all cared more about God, worshipping Him and serving Him more than ourselves

May I ask you who you think those are in the bible that cast out demons in jesus' name and the Lord says "I never knew you"...
who are these people in your eyes and what denomination are they?

From John 5:19-30


Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."

And from Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
If I read and understand Jesus correctly (good Lord willing), the answer to your last question would be anyone who does not honor the Father or Son and who does not do the will of the Father irrespective of denomination.

 

[Jerushabelle]

you tell me to be in "God's word" more than trusting man. and I am trying to tell you that the only way this would be possible is if I stayed away from confused pastors and church people who can't agree on this book...because I can't get brainwashed into thinking that God is the author of confusion.

What if we get to heaven someday and God says "why did you not trust my spirit instead of man's writings...i was with you all along and you chose to spend your time reading a book which is not my complete words"

This is honestly how I feel...i am not being cynical or sarcastic right now...i really wonder if the bible has been so changed over the years that it should no longer be called God's word, but rather a history book with some guidance to the Lord.

I've already told you this, it all comes down to faith. God is not going to tell you that the Scripture which foretold the coming of Jesus, which Jesus read in the synagogue and acknowledged His fulfillment of, which He directed His disciples to proclaim to the world, which God declared to Isaiah that He would control the going and coming of, is man's writings.

Consider David's prayer to God:
“Praise be to you, LORD, the God of our father Israel, from everlasting to everlasting. Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all. Now, our God, we give you thanks, and praise your glorious name."

Now consider Jesus' words to Sadducees:
"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. But about the resurrection of the dead -- have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

I believe I can safely say that your proposed "what if" will not happen unless you truly trust the writings of man as opposed to Scripture.

 

[joyusdays]

I've already told you this, it all comes down to faith. God is not going to tell you that the Scripture which foretold the coming of Jesus, which Jesus read in the synagogue and acknowledged His fulfillment of, which He directed His disciples to proclaim to the world, which God declared to Isaiah that He would control the going and coming of, is man's writings.

Consider David's prayer to God:
“Praise be to you, LORD, the God of our father Israel, from everlasting to everlasting. Yours, LORD, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the majesty and the splendor, for everything in heaven and earth is yours. Yours, LORD, is the kingdom; you are exalted as head over all. Wealth and honor come from you; you are the ruler of all things. In your hands are strength and power to exalt and give strength to all. Now, our God, we give you thanks, and praise your glorious name."

Now consider Jesus' words to Sadducees:
"You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. But about the resurrection of the dead -- have you not read what God said to you, 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

I believe I can safely say that your proposed "what if" will not happen unless you truly trust the writings of man as opposed to Scripture.

You are the only one who hung in there with me and I really do appreciate it. Although I still have questions about the bible, i will continue to ask the Holy Spirit to give me the answers, as He wishes to give. I appreciate so much you trying to help. God Bless you!

 

[joyusdays]

"He is the God of the Living'...AMEN!

 

[CommunityStraightUp]

First of all I'd like you all to know that I am a believer.

I have stumbled across some, what looks like bible errors, and here is my questions.

Do you think the bible has any errors at all? Any translations errors?

I will paste below somethings I found online.

If I were on an island with a non believer who questioned me about this, and let's say we had no greek/hebrew commentary...all we had was just God's Spirit to count on. Would you be able to answer these questions?

When I have asked people, they say "let me check with my pastor, or look it up" but for someone stuck on an island, wouldn't they have to just trust God for an answer? I want to see if any of you can answer without checking with a pastor or commentary...please, because we could all do that and since we know many pastors and teachers are divided, I don't really want to hear a ton of different versions from your pastor/teacher...just you relying on God's spirit...please!

__________________________________________________-

Bible Errors and Contradictions - P. Wesley Edwards
(updated 1-Sept-2004)
Bible debates, perhaps more than any other debate topic, can become lost in endless details of interpretation and subtle questions of translation. It can easily seem that to get into the debate at all requires one to be a Biblical scholar. Fortunately, this is not the case, particularly when dealing with fundamentalists who claim that the Bible is free of error and contradiction.
The claim of Biblical inerrancy puts the Christian in the position of not just claiming that the original Bible was free of error (and, remember, none of the original autograph manuscripts exist) but that their modern version of the Bible is the end result of an error-free history of copying and translation beginning with the originals. Such a position is so specific that it allows one to falsify it simply by reference to the Bible itself. For example, Gen 32:30 states, "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." However, John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..." Both statements cannot be true. Either there is an error of fact, or an error of translation. In either case, there is an error. And if there is an error, then infallibility of the Bible (in this case the King James Version) is falsified. A typical defense used here is to look up the meaning of the original Hebrew / Greek, read that one of the words can have multiple meanings, and then pick the meaning that seems to break the contradiction. For example, the Christian might argue that "seen" or "face" means one thing in the first scripture, and something completely different in the second. The logical flaw in this approach is that it amounts to saying that the translator should have chosen to use a different word in one of the two scriptures in order to avoid the resulting logical contradiction that now appears in English—that is, the translator made an error. If no translation error occurred, then an error of fact exists in at least one of the two scriptures. Appeals to "context" are irrelevant in cases like this where simple declarative statements are involved such as "no one has seen God" and "I have seen God." Simply put, no "context" makes a contradiction or a false statement, like 2 = 3, true.

If one is prepared to allow for the possibility of translator or transcriber errors, then the claim of Biblical inerrancy is completely undermined since no originals exist to serve as a benchmark against which to identify the errors. Left only with our error-prone copies of the originals, the claim of infallibility becomes completely vacuous. Pandora's Box would truly be open: You could have the Bible say whatever you want it to say by simply claiming that words to the contrary are the result of copying or translation/interpretation errors, and nothing could prove you wrong.

Let's look at several more of these context-independent contradictions and errors of fact.1

Contradictions
2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..." 1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..." 2 Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."
2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem" Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"
1 Samuel 31:4-6 says "...Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and...died with him. So Saul died..." 2 Samuel 21:12 says "...the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa."
Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death] Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
Gen 6:20 says "Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]...two of every sort shall come unto thee..." Gen 7:2,3 says "Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens...Of fowls also of the air by sevens..."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Gen 32:30 states "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."
Factual Errors
1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did "compass it round about."
Lev 11:20-21: "All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you." Fowl do not go upon all four.
Lev 11:6: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..." Hare do not chew the cud.
Deut 14:7: " "...as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof." For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare don’t chew the cud and they do divide the "hoof."
Jonah 1:17 says, "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" Matt 12:40 says "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..." whales and fish are not related
Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree." There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees.
Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.

Do not fret, sister. Anyone can take almost verse and call it a contradiction. We must have the Holy Spirit which enables us to truly understand the word of God. Without which, contradictions will be found abroad.

My advice to you as my sister in Christ is when you have questions about the bible, search for the answers. The bible never contradicts itself. It is only our human eye that sees these flaws. There are translations that are incorrect such as the NIV, which is why I only use KJV. I have never found any problems with this translation. If you're having a little trouble with understanding all the old english language stuff, try picking up a NKJV. That might help out a little more.

There will always be people who say the bible contradicts itself and they will show you SCRIPTURE to "prove" it. Don't believe these lies. Satan used scripture. So why wouldn't others who are trying to decieve or draw attention?

If there is a verse you get stuck on, feel free to let me know. My wife and I can study it in our bible study with other believers and we can get back to you.

Remember: Rely not on your own understanding. There will be some questions that WILL go unanswered. You must accept this as unanswered for the time being, and not lose faith as you search for an answer.

In love,
Jonathan Wright

 

[Jerushabelle]

You are the only one who hung in there with me and I really do appreciate it. Although I still have questions about the bible, i will continue to ask the Holy Spirit to give me the answers, as He wishes to give. I appreciate so much you trying to help. God Bless you!

Don't thank me. Thank God.
You're a very stubborn woman which I appreciate because it's that stubbornness that will continue to push you to obtain answers from Him.
Remember (and I post this in light of another post made recently here) study the Bible comparatively. Grab two or three different versions/translations. Set aside a time every day to read the same verses from each and compare them. Start with Genesis and don't stop til you get through Revelation. Most importantly, pray beforehand for the enlightenment that only comes from the Holy Spirit. It may seem laborious at first so don't attack too much at one time. It will get quicker with a little time and you'll be amazed as the Scripture is opened before your eyes and then you will be thrilled by everything the Holy Spirit teaches you. When you're done, find three more translations and start from the beginning. Don't think for one minute that the Holy Spirit can't show you more because you'll be wrong. I know you want answers. You're no different than the rest of us. I promise you, you'll always find them if you look to God's word, not to yourself or man's doctrines. Correction: it's God who promises you!

Hang in there!

 

[His_disciple3]

2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
​

wow!!! unbelievable that this one was even put in there. if you read the whole text of your own verses, one would see there is no contradiction here, let's look to Moses for this answer: Moses was brought/raised up by someone other than his birth Mother, even though His birth mother was still alive. He was consider as the son of the lady whom brought/raised him up. I thought you said you were a treacher, when some should be teaching you find yourself in need of being taught. look at your own verse.

2 Samuel 21:8
8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
KJV

Whom She Brought up for Adriel; Adriel was married to Merab who was Saul's oldest daughter, so the five sons whom she brought/raised up was her older sister's childern. but because she brought them up they were consider her sons, and the day she died She had her Child.

does this alone not show you the intent of the website that you copied from, how they only gave you part of a verse to make it look like a contradiction, should we go any further with this thread or kill it now before it turns anymore from the faith??? you make the call teacher, your 2nd chance

 

[joyusdays]

2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
​

wow!!! unbelievable that this one was even put in there. if you read the whole text of your own verses, one would see there is no contradiction here, let's look to Moses for this answer: Moses was brought/raised up by someone other than his birth Mother, even though His birth mother was still alive. He was consider as the son of the lady whom brought/raised him up. I thought you said you were a treacher, when some should be teaching you find yourself in need of being taught. look at your own verse.

2 Samuel 21:8
8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
KJV

Whom She Brought up for Adriel; Adriel was married to Merab who was Saul's oldest daughter, so the five sons whom she brought/raised up was her older sister's childern. but because she brought them up they were consider her sons, and the day she died She had her Child.

does this alone not show you the intent of the website that you copied from, how they only gave you part of a verse to make it look like a contradiction, should we go any further with this thread or kill it now before it turns anymore from the faith??? you make the call teacher, your 2nd chance

Don't worry, that one doesn't bother me either...I had copied and pasted the whole thing from another site. It was the obvious errors in the bible and how so many people can see the bible differently...all claiming to have been lead by the holy spirit. These are the things that challenge my little pea brain.

The longer I go in my journey with the lord, the more I lean on just belief in Him and loving others...the rest I am trying not to let it bother me because if it's not clear...I need to move on
He gives us faith to believe in Him...on our own we'd never make it...He will keep all of sheep and lose none of them...this is what I hold on to.

 

[joyusdays]

Don't thank me. Thank God.
You're a very stubborn woman which I appreciate because it's that stubbornness that will continue to push you to obtain answers from Him.
Remember (and I post this in light of another post made recently here) study the Bible comparatively. Grab two or three different versions/translations. Set aside a time every day to read the same verses from each and compare them. Start with Genesis and don't stop til you get through Revelation. Most importantly, pray beforehand for the enlightenment that only comes from the Holy Spirit. It may seem laborious at first so don't attack too much at one time. It will get quicker with a little time and you'll be amazed as the Scripture is opened before your eyes and then you will be thrilled by everything the Holy Spirit teaches you. When you're done, find three more translations and start from the beginning. Don't think for one minute that the Holy Spirit can't show you more because you'll be wrong. I know you want answers. You're no different than the rest of us. I promise you, you'll always find them if you look to God's word, not to yourself or man's doctrines. Correction: it's God who promises you!

Hang in there!

I guess I've become stubborn because every church we have visited we have been devistated by...so I don't want to walk into any blindly.

God is our strength and although the bible is still confusing in many areas...I am so thankful that I have a saviour who loves me regardless and is patient with all of my questions.

 

[Jerushabelle]

I guess I've become stubborn because every church we have visited we have been devistated by...so I don't want to walk into any blindly.

God is our strength and although the bible is still confusing in many areas...I am so thankful that I have a saviour who loves me regardless and is patient with all of my questions.

You're not alone in having been devastated by people in churches. I've been kicked out of some and attacked in the very church I helped my husband establish. What did I do wrong? Nothing. I stood on God's word. We're told to expect persecution when we confront evil and there is plenty of evil to be found in some churches from the conferences to the pulpits to the praise teams to the controlling families. God tells us to put on His armor for without it, we can not defeat Satan. It's not a painless battle but with God, His Son and Holy Spirit, we endure. Add Godly wisdom and strength through the donning of His armor to your stubborn. You're going to need it. I pray your confusion abates and your understanding increases, in Jesus name.

 

[wayfaring man]

Jonah 1:17 says, "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" Matt 12:40 says "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..." whales and fish are not related

By name, a "whale shark" is both a "whale" and a "shark" [or fish], (and they are large enough to swallow a man, as they swim along, feeding with their mouth open.
Also, biological distinctions have become more refined in modern times, and The Scriptures were written in the language of the time in which they were given.

Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree." There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees.

1st of all, the above verse is a parable, which allows for what may be described as "poetic license". 2ndly, mustard seeds may well have been "the smallest of all seeds", "which men"[of that era] did take and "sow in their fields".

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof. <-----> Mathew 13:31+23

3rdly, the word tree [as well as many other words] may be used either figuratively, or literally. And therefore, if meant in a figurative context, it only contradicts, with those who errantly insist upon a literal context.

For example, to illustrate how large a helping of mashed potatoes were, one could describe them as being "a heap of potatoes", figuratively speaking; even though there were literally only 2 or 3 potatoes worth on the plate.

Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.

This assertion of contradiction apparently fails to take into account, that such occurrence could have either been experienced "in a vision", or in a "supernatural context", where "natural laws" and "geographical limitations" would no longer apply. And the root meaning of the Greek word translated "mountain" simply means to "rise" or be "lifted above" [that which lies below].

May The Lord Be Pleased !

wm

 

[joyusdays]

You're not alone in having been devastated by people in churches. I've been kicked out of some and attacked in the very church I helped my husband establish. What did I do wrong? Nothing. I stood on God's word. We're told to expect persecution when we confront evil and there is plenty of evil to be found in some churches from the conferences to the pulpits to the praise teams to the controlling families. God tells us to put on His armor for without it, we can not defeat Satan. It's not a painless battle but with God, His Son and Holy Spirit, we endure. Add Godly wisdom and strength through the donning of His armor to your stubborn. You're going to need it. I pray your confusion abates and your understanding increases, in Jesus name.

Glad and sad to hear we are not alone..sorry that you too have had problems in churches. It's sad when the bible verse you wanted to use on them, they use first one you lol. I appreciate your kind heart!

 

[wayfaring man]

The "real church", may no man gather together, but Christ Himself !

In the mean time, the members thereof are scattered like sheep all across the universe !


Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. <-----> Zechariah 13:7-9

As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. <-----> John 10:15+16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words. <-----> 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18

May The Lord Be Magnified !

wm

 

[joyusdays]

The "real church", may no man gather together, but Christ Himself !

In the mean time, the members thereof are scattered like sheep all across the universe !


Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. <-----> Zechariah 13:7-9

Can you break down what all of this means to you in simple terms? And please tell me if your interpretation was given to you by the Holy Spirit or if your interpretation was researched from a commentary or teacher, or what your source is for your interpretation.


As the Father knows me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. <-----> John 10:15+16

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words. <-----> 1st Thessalonians 4:16-18

May The Lord Be Magnified !

wm

Can you please break down each verse you gave and tell me what your interpretation is of it...in simple terms. Can you also please let me know what source you used to get you to this interpretation. ie., which commentary or reference bible or pastor/teacher etc helped you to come up with your interpretation...thanks!

 

[Jerushabelle]

Glad and sad to hear we are not alone..sorry that you too have had problems in churches. It's sad when the bible verse you wanted to use on them, they use first one you lol. I appreciate your kind heart!

If all we learn from Scripture is how to manipulate people, that is indeed sad. We are not to use bible verses on people. We are to read and study the holy Scriptures in their entirety and we are to confront evil with what the Holy Spirit teaches us from the Scriptures and with the power of the Holy Spirit in Jesus name. That is not the same thing as using Bible verses on people. Whenever we use Scripture to correct or rebuke we are to do so after we consult the Holy Spirit for guidance and direction; prayer. If we count on our own understanding, the only thing we end up doing is slinging Scripture like a weapon. It's not that sort of weapon. It wasn't given to us so we could abuse and manipulate people with it.
One other thing...ignore the verse numbering. It's only good for locating specific themes within Scripture. It was never intended to create individual thought themes within whole thought themes but that is what it has become. Stop asking man for interpretation of Scripture. Read and ask the One who has the answers. If you keep looking to man, you'll always be confused and disappointed. It's one thing to discuss but only God can provide the clarity and enlightenment through the Holy Spirit.

 

[joyusdays]

I can appreciate what you are saying, but then why do we have pastors teaching if we can't understand it? This is why i get so confused. When I read it, it doesn't make sense unless it's black and white, when someone throws a verse out that is not clear, what is the purpose of it if I don't understand where they are coming from? I have been a believer since 1970 and i know the holy spirit dwells within those who believe, so why is this not clear to me? Then that is when i say "because it's not clear to many people and that is why we have division"

 

[Jerushabelle]

I can appreciate what you are saying, but then why do we have pastors teaching if we can't understand it? This is why i get so confused. When I read it, it doesn't make sense unless it's black and white, when someone throws a verse out that is not clear, what is the purpose of it if I don't understand where they are coming from? I have been a believer since 1970 and i know the holy spirit dwells within those who believe, so why is this not clear to me? Then that is when i say "because it's not clear to many people and that is why we have division"

I've already explained this to you. Verses "thrown out" are typically not in context. When someone does that, go to the word, read it in it's entire thought context via comparative translations. Then you learn whether the verse thrown out was just "hot air" or not and you either dismiss it or apply it.

The further we go into the end times, the worse this issue is going to become. The days of sound Scripture from believers is coming to an end (their ears having been tickled for far too long) and we have got to learn to rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit who makes no mistakes and delivers nothing out of context. The days of "church" as we once knew it are also coming to an end. We're all going to have to learn to FROG through life and death.

 

[ashout]

the bible will make sense to you in a certain way, you will say to yourself "it probably means this." go with that! obey it how you understand it, and ask God to help you, he wont let you misinterpret it to your own undoing. ...and i hope you understand to be open to interpretation to, you will LEARN what things mean as you go along you do NOT understand it all, and you don't even have to to live as God wants you to.

 

[joyusdays]

I've already explained this to you. Verses "thrown out" are typically not in context. When someone does that, go to the word, read it in it's entire thought context via comparative translations. Then you learn whether the verse thrown out was just "hot air" or not and you either dismiss it or apply it.

The further we go into the end times, the worse this issue is going to become. The days of sound Scripture from believers is coming to an end (their ears having been tickled for far too long) and we have got to learn to rely on the guidance of the Holy Spirit who makes no mistakes and delivers nothing out of context. The days of "church" as we once knew it are also coming to an end. We're all going to have to learn to FROG through life and death.

i know you have explained it to me and when I get someone who does that...i want them to know that i am questioning them...i want them to think about what they are really saying when they just do that. If they are doing it to me, how many other people are getting that same treatment!