How to answer the bible errors

[Jerushabelle]

i read it and I believe it. I believe the bible is full of God everywhere. i just said it had errors and if it's not clear to all then who is the "right' one. The verse you gave me could have several meanings...and my point is that if so many spirit filled christians see it a different way, who is the "right' one.

For example Isaiah 55:11 says "word" and I think it means that whatever god speaks will happen: here is the cross ref "Isaiah 59:21 "As for Me, this is My covenant with them," says the LORD: "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."

So what was your point with the scripture you gave me?

"The" cross reference? What's your source for this cross reference?

My point with the Scripture I asked you to read is simple. God is in control of everything including His word, printed or spoken or however He wants to send it out, it serves His purposes. We either believe that or we don't. We're not in the position to dispute it. Oh, well we can, but I'm reminded of that humorous story where God calls Gabriel aside to view a humanist standing on a beach with arms outstretched screaming at the top of his/her lungs "I am God!" toward the heavens. "Yo Gabriel, get a load of this!!"

Paul told Timothy that "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work." Do I believe what Paul told Timothy? Yes, but that's me. Can you believe what Paul told Timothy? That's up to you, where you are in your faith walk and where God intends to meet you.

There are a lot of things that God does or doesn't do that I don't understand. I've come to realize that I never will. At times, in my frustration and anger, I have felt like a lab rat that God throws specific stimuli at and watches my response. Then I remember that the bad things that have happened to me are a consequence of sin in the world; my sin or that of someone else.

One thing I don't do is try to peel apart the faith like an onion; to attempt to justify, quantify, etc. I tell myself to KISS (keep it simple stupid) and the reason is simple. I can't match wits with God. And if one believes the words that Jesus spoke in Matthew 18:3, we're not supposed to try but rather we are to become like trusting little children. It's one thing to study Scripture; to study doctrine and theology, all for the purpose of learning and growing in God. When we do it for the purpose of questioning God's ways, telling Him what we will and will not accept, telling others in the faith what they should or should not accept, then I believe we're overstepping like Job overstepped and at some point we'll hear the words "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?" and it won't be funny like the joke about the humanist.

You can keep asking questions of man but the answers man gives you, you subject to interpretation, scrutiny or flat out rejection. I really believe that you need to be asking God these questions and getting your answers from Him. I believe that many if not all of the answers you're looking for are in the Scriptures but that brings you right back to square one, the belief and acceptance of the Scriptures as God's word. No man/woman here or anywhere is going to be able to convince you, set your mind at ease, prove or disprove Scripture, etc. with any real authority. It's a matter of faith. Your belief, your faith is between you and God so I think you should go to Him for the real skinny. If all you want to do, however, is wrangle and haggle, debate and dispute, well...carry on.

 

[Christownsme]

"The" cross reference? What's your source for this cross reference?

My point with the Scripture I asked you to read is simple. God is in control of everything including His word, printed or spoken or however He wants to send it out, it serves His purposes. We either believe that or we don't. We're not in the position to dispute it. Oh, well we can, but I'm reminded of that humorous story where God calls Gabriel aside to view a humanist standing on a beach with arms outstretched screaming at the top of his/her lungs "I am God!" toward the heavens. "Yo Gabriel, get a load of this!!"

Paul told Timothy that "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that everyone who belongs to God may be proficient, equipped for every good work." Do I believe what Paul told Timothy? Yes, but that's me. Can you believe what Paul told Timothy? That's up to you, where you are in your faith walk and where God intends to meet you.

There are a lot of things that God does or doesn't do that I don't understand. I've come to realize that I never will. At times, in my frustration and anger, I have felt like a lab rat that God throws specific stimuli at and watches my response. Then I remember that the bad things that have happened to me are a consequence of sin in the world; my sin or that of someone else.

One thing I don't do is try to peel apart the faith like an onion; to attempt to justify, quantify, etc. I tell myself to KISS (keep it simple stupid) and the reason is simple. I can't match wits with God. And if one believes the words that Jesus spoke in Matthew 18:3, we're not supposed to try but rather we are to become like trusting little children. It's one thing to study Scripture; to study doctrine and theology, all for the purpose of learning and growing in God. When we do it for the purpose of questioning God's ways, telling Him what we will and will not accept, telling others in the faith what they should or should not accept, then I believe we're overstepping like Job overstepped and at some point we'll hear the words "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?" and it won't be funny like the joke about the humanist.

You can keep asking questions of man but the answers man gives you, you subject to interpretation, scrutiny or flat out rejection. I really believe that you need to be asking God these questions and getting your answers from Him. I believe that many if not all of the answers you're looking for are in the Scriptures but that brings you right back to square one, the belief and acceptance of the Scriptures as God's word. No man/woman here or anywhere is going to be able to convince you, set your mind at ease, prove or disprove Scripture, etc. with any real authority. It's a matter of faith. Your belief, your faith is between you and God so I think you should go to Him for the real skinny. If all you want to do, however, is wrangle and haggle, debate and dispute, well...carry on.

Amen to this. If a person has a childlike faith and wants to believe in his heart, this is what matters to God: the desire to be right with God. I do believe the whole Bible is possible to tear apart for those who are complete skeptics (Jesus honored Thomas' request when Thomas said he simply will not believe til he has proof.) But Jesus replied blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. Bottom line is that Thomas had a bent toward loving and desiring to please the Jesus he knew before. This is precisely why Jesus honored the request to show him He's alive again.

 

[JessaMesss]

Tell me what your bible says about
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..."
1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."

Ok so this one I had to do some research for and to be honest Im kinda lazy but this is what Carm has to say about it

Now what I will say is I beilieve that GOd has preserved his word, maybey there is an englesh translation out there that does not have this error, but I would be not be that distressed over a number, are there any other conflicts that are bothering you?

 

[JessaMesss]

This is most probably a copyist error or a copy of a manuscript

where the number was altered through decay. 2 chron 18:4 is probably

the correct number since it is a better preserved manuscript.

"Probably on earlier copyist inadvertently omitted the word "chariot"

that we find supplied in some translations. This in turn created a

problem for a later copyist who would have recognized that it was not

proper Hebrew structure to write "one thousand seven thousand" horsemen,"

so he would have reduced the second "thousand" to "hundred" resulting in the

reading we now have in 2Sam

 

[JessaMesss]

Tell me which bible and which commentary a new believer should avoid?

Personally I would avoid all commentary at least until you well read of the bible,


as far as which bible to read I started reading King James recently I went on to read new American slandered, but what I love to do is go to blue letter bible and there you can look at all the translations and match them up,

you haven't brought any thing up to me that is the faith shaking so I wouldn't think it bad if a new believer read from the king James or a Gideon,


Now I have to ask are you a Christain, or are you a skeptic that is trying to confuse Christains, I hope you understand why I ask


and if you have another one I can research please let me know =D

 

[tackattack]

@Christownsme - 1 Corinthians 14:20 (NIV,2011)

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

We know God is beyond our own understanding (Job 36:26)
and we shouldn't depend on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5)

But that doens't mean we shouldn't want to know, learn and try to understand God.
2 Tim 2:15; 1 John 2:4 and 4:8; MAtthew 22:29; Ephesians 4:18 (one of my favorites); Romans 1:28-32


28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


I have nothing against a reckless and innocent faith, but we should be careful to still seek understanding and develop discernment. Of course that should be tested by scripture and interpretted by the Holy Spirit, but it is foundational to our beliefs. Otherwise, we'd be tossed about by every wave on the ocean.


@Joyusdays - Yes.

 

[Christownsme]

@Christownsme - 1 Corinthians 14:20 (NIV,2011)

20 Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.

We know God is beyond our own understanding (Job 36:26)
and we shouldn't depend on our own understanding (Proverbs 3:5)

But that doens't mean we shouldn't want to know, learn and try to understand God.
2 Tim 2:15; 1 John 2:4 and 4:8; MAtthew 22:29; Ephesians 4:18 (one of my favorites); Romans 1:28-32


28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


I have nothing against a reckless and innocent faith, but we should be careful to still seek understanding and develop discernment. Of course that should be tested by scripture and interpretted by the Holy Spirit, but it is foundational to our beliefs. Otherwise, we'd be tossed about by every wave on the ocean.


@Joyusdays - Yes.

Thinking like children is different than having faith of a child. We are to ALWAYS have a childlike faith.

In regard to evil, be infants: means don't grow in evil. Remain an infant in the growth process of being evil.

In your thinking, be like adults: Seek wisdom and knowledge and understanding.

Romans 1:28-32 has no relation on this topic. This is about unbelievers (we have been talking about believers ) who despite they have been revealed who God is, believe in a lie that God is like something to be worshiped like a creature rather than the creator. So God gave them over to their lusts, God won't prod them or convict them anymore because this is the way they want it, knowing the consequences in full.

To summarize my point:

1. FAITH - is to be trusting, believing all things of God, like a child (Jesus' call on this one) This is your spiritual self, your spirit is to be gentle, meek, and childlike
2. THINKING - is to be like an adult, leaving childish thinking, seeking wisdom and understanding (I believe Solomon, Paul wrote on these) This is your mind which needs constant renewal - arm it with strength.
3. LABOR - to love and serve (most of the disciples wrote on this) This is your fruit of faith and thinking = works of love

 

[joyusdays]

Personally I would avoid all commentary at least until you well read of the bible,


as far as which bible to read I started reading King James recently I went on to read new American slandered, but what I love to do is go to blue letter bible and there you can look at all the translations and match them up,

you haven't brought any thing up to me that is the faith shaking so I wouldn't think it bad if a new believer read from the king James or a Gideon,


Now I have to ask are you a Christain, or are you a skeptic that is trying to confuse Christains, I hope you understand why I ask


and if you have another one I can research please let me know =D

I absolutely am a Christian. I believe I am a sinner saved by God's Grace. I just want to be careful not to call the bible "Gods word' when there are obvious errors in it. I believe God is sovereign and I believe that the stories in the bible are real, but i don't believe that God wanted us to trust the bible stories more than Him, and the reason I believe this is because so many people see it different ways and make their own doctrine out of it.

For example, I had a friend who loved the Lord, but she told me that since I cut my hair that i would go to hell. She said that a womans hair is her glory. So, if I were to take that literal, i'd be going to hell?

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)

so you say that we shouldn't use commentaries, so if I were on an island with the bible, and took this verse literally, than I would expect to see all women with long hair or wear head coverings in church. Some churches still do this today. Are they wrong for trying to follow the bible?

Or explain this verse to me if we are to take it literal.
14(P)He who blesses his friend with a loud voice early in the morning,
It will be reckoned a curse to him.

 

[joyusdays]

This is most probably a copyist error or a copy of a manuscript

where the number was altered through decay. 2 chron 18:4 is probably

the correct number since it is a better preserved manuscript.

"Probably on earlier copyist inadvertently omitted the word "chariot"

that we find supplied in some translations. This in turn created a

problem for a later copyist who would have recognized that it was not

proper Hebrew structure to write "one thousand seven thousand" horsemen,"

so he would have reduced the second "thousand" to "hundred" resulting in the

reading we now have in 2Sam

So this is my point. A copyist error = error... and with God I believe there is no error... so if there are known errors within the bible, then i would not feel comfortable calling it Gods word. I would feel like i am speaking for God if in fact there are errors.

 

[tackattack]

@Christownsme- which I agree with 100% glad you clarified from your previous post then.

 

[Jerushabelle]

I absolutely am a Christian. I believe I am a sinner saved by God's Grace. I just want to be careful not to call the bible "Gods word' when there are obvious errors in it. I believe God is sovereign and I believe that the stories in the bible are real, but i don't believe that God wanted us to trust the bible stories more than Him, and the reason I believe this is because so many people see it different ways and make their own doctrine out of it.

I understand what you are saying here but we can't be cynical towards God's word because of some copyist's errors! Why throw the baby out with the bath water? And, just because folks believe that Scripture (the Bible and other writings) are God's inspired words, doesn't mean that folks are trusting those more than God. The Christian belief system is a complete package made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit including the inspired writings.

For example, I had a friend who loved the Lord, but she told me that since I cut my hair that i would go to hell. She said that a womans hair is her glory. So, if I were to take that literal, i'd be going to hell?

No. I don't see anywhere in Paul's directives regarding worship to the Corinthians that you'd go to hell for cutting your hair. (See my next comment)

"Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her as a covering." (1 Corinthians 11:13-15)

I do read, however, in 1 Corinthians 11:16 (the verse immediately following the verses you posted just above) "If anyone wants to be contentiious about this, we have no other practice -- nor do the churches of God." What Paul is saying is that women who do not cover their heads in worship dishonor their heads (man) which dishonors their Head (Jesus) which in turn dishonors God. In that, therefore, (the churches of God) should have no other practice. If we do not honor the Father, Jesus will not recognize us before His Father and yes, that means we go to hell.

so you say that we shouldn't use commentaries, so if I were on an island with the bible, and took this verse literally, than I would expect to see all women with long hair or wear head coverings in church. Some churches still do this today. Are they wrong for trying to follow the bible?

No. What you would expect to see is women with their heads covered in worship before God, when they pray or prophecy, and the fact that most denominations have thrown this honor to God by the wayside in addition to allowing women to lead men in worship before God has caused the downfall of those who have practiced such.

Or explain this verse to me if we are to take it literal.
14(P)He who blesses his friend with a loud voice early in the morning,
It will be reckoned a curse to him.

From Proverbs 27. Why not take verse 14 which you posted above in context with the beginning thought process found in verse 12:
"The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it." So, for instance, if you rouse your neighbor early in the morning, when your neighbor is groggy and grumpy, regardless of the fact that your noise is meant to be a blessing, your groggy, sleepy and grumpy neighbor just might cuss you out because you didn't appreciate his need for sleep. Yes, I take that verse very literally considering I was up til 4AM the other morning working and my insurance company, which can't seem to get anything right, chose to call my house bright and early at 8AM to let me know the positive status of my claim and I, in my grumpy sleepless state chose to cuss them out for calling so early with good news! The moral: if you're an inconsiderate poop, regardless of whether you mean well or not, you might, in your thoughtlessness, suffer a negative consequence. (Or in my case, if I'm dumb enough to forget to take my phone off hook before I go to bed at 4AM, I can end up behaving like a moron when the phone rings at 8!!! ROFLOL...ahem...sorry about that God!!)
Can we start taking Scripture in it's entirety and in total context? This verse numbering system, for all it's assistance in locating specific Scripture, has done more to create stumbling blocks for Christians than we realize!

 

[joyusdays]

From Proverbs 27. Why not take verse 14 which you posted above in context with the beginning thought process found in verse 12:
"The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it." So, for instance, if you rouse your neighbor early in the morning, when your neighbor is groggy and grumpy, regardless of the fact that your noise is meant to be a blessing, your groggy, sleepy and grumpy neighbor just might cuss you out because you didn't appreciate his need for sleep. Yes, I take that verse very literally considering I was up til 4AM the other morning working and my insurance company, which can't seem to get anything right, chose to call my house bright and early at 8AM to let me know the positive status of my claim and I, in my grumpy sleepless state chose to cuss them out for calling so early with good news! The moral: if you're an inconsiderate poop, regardless of whether you mean well or not, you might, in your thoughtlessness, suffer a negative consequence. (Or in my case, if I'm dumb enough to forget to take my phone off hook before I go to bed at 4AM, I can end up behaving like a moron when the phone rings at 8!!! ROFLOL...ahem...sorry about that God!!)
Can we start taking Scripture in it's entirety and in total context? This verse numbering system, for all it's assistance in locating specific Scripture, has done more to create stumbling blocks for Christians than we realize!

I appreciate your response, and so i think you are saying in proverbs that a clearer way man should have written this verse would say "curse you out" instead of being cursed. To me, the way it's worded sounds like I will be cursed/damned and not cursed at.

Now let me ask you this please....

If I were to get you in a room with a Catholic, a Baptist, a Lutheran, a Calvinist, and a person who believed they could lose their salvation...

ALL claiming to have read the whole bible, ALL teaching on Sundays the bible, All claiming to be taking the bible into context, and ALL claiming that they have asked God for clarification on what each verse means...etc...

And all seeing scripture differently as we just have...are you telling me that you would be the only one who is correct? That you are the only one who should be teaching the bible? You are the only one fortunate enough to have heard back from the Holy Spirit?

I asked my christian husband to look at the same verse in Proverbs and he too thought it read 'cursed" and not "cussed out"

if the bible was meant to be plain, simple, and literal, why is it so difficult to have to muddle through it and try to find what fits. Why did that verse not simply say "If you wake me up in the morning, being rude and loud, i am going to cuss at you"

Does it not make you wonder why there is so much division in the church if the bible is so black and white as you make it sound?

Again, I believe God is perfect, but with all of the confusion with the bible, I can't see how one is to take it ALL literal.

The thing in the bible that is clear to me is that there is God who loved us, (might be the elect only, that is debatable ) so much he sent his son to die for us (might be the elect only) and those whom believe it will be saved.

 

[joyusdays]

Jerushabelle "No. What you would expect to see is women with their heads covered in worship before God, when they pray or prophecy, and the fact that most denominations have thrown this honor to God by the wayside in addition to allowing women to lead men in worship before God has caused the downfall of those who have practiced such."

If a woman's hair is her glory, why do women cut their hair today? Also, what exactly do you think a covering is and looks like? Why would God care if it's the heart He is after? Does this mean a literal cover or having the Holy Spirit cover for you?

 

[Jerushabelle]

I appreciate your response, and so i think you are saying in proverbs that a clearer way man should have written this verse would say "curse you out" instead of being cursed. To me, the way it's worded sounds like I will be cursed/damned and not cursed at.

Try studying the Bible comparitively for a fuller understanding of Scripture.

Now let me ask you this please....

If I were to get you in a room with a Catholic, a Baptist, a Lutheran, a Calvinist, and a person who believed they could lose their salvation...

ALL claiming to have read the whole bible, ALL teaching on Sundays the bible, All claiming to be taking the bible into context, and ALL claiming that they have asked God for clarification on what each verse means...etc...

And all seeing scripture differently as we just have...are you telling me that you would be the only one who is correct?That you are the only one who should be teaching the bible? You are the only one fortunate enough to have heard back from the Holy Spirit?

No. I would be the one jumping for joy that we were all in the same room worshipping together! FINALLY!

I asked my christian husband to look at the same verse in Proverbs and he too thought it read 'cursed" and not "cussed out"

I reiterate:
Try studying the Bible comparatively for a fuller understanding of Scripture.

if the bible was meant to be plain, simple, and literal, why is it so difficult to have to muddle through it and try to find what fits. Why did that verse not simply say "If you wake me up in the morning, being rude and loud, i am going to cuss at you"

Vernacular and translation. Try studying the Bible comparitively for a fuller understanding of Scripture. Also, we don't search God's word looking for "what fits". We read God's word in it's entirety for life instruction, to learn who God is, what He expects from us and how we can serve Him.

Does it not make you wonder why there is so much division in the church if the bible is so black and white as you make it sound?

Yup, sure does!

Again, I believe God is perfect, but with all of the confusion with the bible, I can't see how one is to take it ALL literal.

Yes, and I'm sure you've read in the Bible that God is not the author of confusion. Do you therefore, take that to mean then that since man is always arguing about what the Scriptures say, that God's word can not be His word because there is so much confusion? No. Well, you can and quite obviously, you are but I suggest you do this instead. Read God's word comparatively and ask the Holy Spirit to open the Scriptures to you; to take away whatever impediment you have keeping you from understanding.

The thing in the bible that is clear to me is that there is God who loved us, (might be the elect only, that is debatable ) so much he sent his son to die for us (might be the elect only) and those whom believe it will be saved.

Spend more time in Scripture and less time in the doctrine of men. Our salvation is not dependent on man but God. Can man teach better than God? No.

 

[joyusdays]

Another question for you Jerushabelle.

Do you think the bible is clear on whether a woman should preach, teach or lead worship in a church?

 

[Jerushabelle]

Another question for you Jerushabelle.

Do you think the bible is clear on whether a woman should preach, teach or lead worship in a church?

You already know the answer to that question.

 

[joyusdays]

Jerushabelle, if you are being honest, that you would love to worship with those who hold totally different views than you (may have) I agree...i would love it too...because it would mean that we are all seeing scripture the same.

May I ask you who you think those are in the bible that cast out demons in jesus' name and the Lord says "I never knew you"...

who are these people in your eyes and what denomination are they?

 

[joyusdays]

You already know the answer to that question.

That is not what i am asking you. Please clarify your answer with scripture.

 

[joyusdays]

you tell me to be in "God's word" more than trusting man. and I am trying to tell you that the only way this would be possible is if I stayed away from confused pastors and church people who can't agree on this book...because I can't get brainwashed into thinking that God is the author of confusion.

What if we get to heaven someday and God says "why did you not trust my spirit instead of man's writings...i was with you all along and you chose to spend your time reading a book which is not my complete words"

This is honestly how I feel...i am not being cynical or sarcastic right now...i really wonder if the bible has been so changed over the years that it should no longer be called God's word, but rather a history book with some guidance to the Lord.

 

[Jerushabelle]

Jerushabelle "No. What you would expect to see is women with their heads covered in worship before God, when they pray or prophecy, and the fact that most denominations have thrown this honor to God by the wayside in addition to allowing women to lead men in worship before God has caused the downfall of those who have practiced such."

If a woman's hair is her glory, why do women cut their hair today?
If you ask my husband that question he'll tell you it's because they can't read! LOL
I think women cut their hair because they want to or need to; they like the way it looks, the style, etc. It does not take away from the glory of it.

Also, what exactly do you think a covering is and looks like?
Hat, scarf, doily, who cares?...cover your head.

Why would God care if it's the heart He is after?
Ask Him.

Does this mean a literal cover or having the Holy Spirit cover for you?

It means cover your head to show respect and honor to God.