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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
How the Democratic Party opposes Christian Principles
- Thread starter clirus
- Start date
NeTrips quote
But what about the likes of Teddy Kennedy, Bill and Hillary, etc. they all claim to be Christian and Democrats. I even saw a picture of Bill with this enormous bible.... Is the implication that they are lying about one or the other?
Response
Now, that is the question!
I can present my opinion/evidence, but it is up to you to make the decision when you go into the voting booth.
But what about the likes of Teddy Kennedy, Bill and Hillary, etc. they all claim to be Christian and Democrats. I even saw a picture of Bill with this enormous bible.... Is the implication that they are lying about one or the other?
Response
Now, that is the question!
I can present my opinion/evidence, but it is up to you to make the decision when you go into the voting booth.
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christalee4 quote
God does not sanction political parties, and if you find out that He does, let us know.
Response
God does not sanction political parties, Christians honor God when they vote to preserve Christian Principles by voting for candidates that support Christian Principles.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss which political party does support Christian Principles.
Voegelin makes a very good point by the following.
While I have differences with the OP, that there has been a major realignment in America politics is irrefutable. In The Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts, and the Disregard for Human Life, Ramesh Ponnuru traces the split back to Roe v Wade and particularly the Democratic National Conventions of 1972 and 1976. Before those conventions, both parties pretty much agreed on basic social issues and agreed on what today are often characterized as "Christian" positions. At those conventions, Ponnuru wrote, the Democratic Party found, quite to its astonishment, that a quarter to a third of its delegates identified themselves as secularists. So the divergence we see today was not created by Christians or Republicans, it was created by the Democratic party responding to a new (or rather more powerful) force within itself.
There is great deception in the world. Christians need to be salt and light in the world instead of being deceived. Christians will not be deceived if they hold to God's word.
God does not sanction political parties, and if you find out that He does, let us know.
Response
God does not sanction political parties, Christians honor God when they vote to preserve Christian Principles by voting for candidates that support Christian Principles.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss which political party does support Christian Principles.
Voegelin makes a very good point by the following.
While I have differences with the OP, that there has been a major realignment in America politics is irrefutable. In The Party of Death: The Democrats, the Media, the Courts, and the Disregard for Human Life, Ramesh Ponnuru traces the split back to Roe v Wade and particularly the Democratic National Conventions of 1972 and 1976. Before those conventions, both parties pretty much agreed on basic social issues and agreed on what today are often characterized as "Christian" positions. At those conventions, Ponnuru wrote, the Democratic Party found, quite to its astonishment, that a quarter to a third of its delegates identified themselves as secularists. So the divergence we see today was not created by Christians or Republicans, it was created by the Democratic party responding to a new (or rather more powerful) force within itself.
There is great deception in the world. Christians need to be salt and light in the world instead of being deceived. Christians will not be deceived if they hold to God's word.
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If this is what Christianity is to you, then I pity you. Even as an atheist I give Christianity more credit than that.
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PassionFruit quote
Ahh, I see the typical "feminists have nothing to complain about any more." Totally false, there's still a lot of issues that have not been settled. In an particular ares of the workforce, women are still being paid less even though they work hard as their same male co workers and the same education. One theory is due to the fact that it is still assumed that women are going to leave the work and start a family, thus being passed up for promotions. Even though women don't have to register for the draft, women who join the military still face issues of rape, having a hard time getting access to birth control, and other issues. Then there's domestic violence or course, (and no I'm not saying that men aren't victims, just not at the rate women are.) There's always going to be a movement, right now we're in the third wave movement, this is the feminist movement that will include issues of gender identity, racism, and class.
I think I will let you know what type of feminists I am, I'm a Black feminist, do you know what that means? It's not the same as the mainstream feminist movement of women being man-haters, in which you seem to think that's all feminism is. This is a very different form of feminism.
Then there's the plight of women in other countries, dear let me tell you, this isn't about "finding something else to be angry about" there's still work that needs to be done. I don't know what you mean by " the goal has been met" what goal? There's still work that needs to be done.
Response
Thank you for responding.
Feminism can have the greatest effect on Christianity and America.
The subject of feminism is one of the first things discussed in the Bible by the presentation of the Garden of Eden.
First let me say that it is difficult for men to talk to women about feminism (and generally everything) because God made women smarter than men. Women have to be smarter than men and able to multitask because God designed women to do the most difficult job in the world and that is to raise children. Raising children requires great communication skill.
God designed men to be simpler so that men can do the one task that God designed men to do and that is to provide for his family. Men communicate by grunts and hand jesters.
The combination of a man and a women produces the combination of woman that can raise children with the provision of the man as the provider.
The following verses from the Bible, clearly state the above and define the Christian Family concept.
I Corinthians 11:3 states, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
I Thimothy 5:8 states, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
Exodus 20:12 states, " Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."
Feminism places the woman as equal with man. Feminism advocates that the woman provide for the family. The ones that are hurt by the breakdown of the Christian Family concept are the children.
Some would say the high divorce rate (breakdown of the Christian Family concept) is the fault of the man and others say it is the fault of the woman. I believe it is a reflection of the decline of Christianity in America.
Too many people are advocating the acceptability of being a single parent, but my experience is that being a single parent is a guarantee of hardship and poverty. There are many programs to try to make being a single parent to work, but the real solution is to return to the Christian Family concept of the Bible.
Much more effort needs to be spent on making the Christian Family concept work than on making the single parent concept or the "It takes a Village" concept to work.
Without children being raised by Christian parents, there will not be future Christians and I believe there will be no America when there are no Christians.
Please respond. Do you think feminism is consistent with scripture?
Being a mother, depending on a man, will not be rewarded on earth, but I believe will be rewarded in heaven.
Ahh, I see the typical "feminists have nothing to complain about any more." Totally false, there's still a lot of issues that have not been settled. In an particular ares of the workforce, women are still being paid less even though they work hard as their same male co workers and the same education. One theory is due to the fact that it is still assumed that women are going to leave the work and start a family, thus being passed up for promotions. Even though women don't have to register for the draft, women who join the military still face issues of rape, having a hard time getting access to birth control, and other issues. Then there's domestic violence or course, (and no I'm not saying that men aren't victims, just not at the rate women are.) There's always going to be a movement, right now we're in the third wave movement, this is the feminist movement that will include issues of gender identity, racism, and class.
I think I will let you know what type of feminists I am, I'm a Black feminist, do you know what that means? It's not the same as the mainstream feminist movement of women being man-haters, in which you seem to think that's all feminism is. This is a very different form of feminism.
Then there's the plight of women in other countries, dear let me tell you, this isn't about "finding something else to be angry about" there's still work that needs to be done. I don't know what you mean by " the goal has been met" what goal? There's still work that needs to be done.
Response
Thank you for responding.
Feminism can have the greatest effect on Christianity and America.
The subject of feminism is one of the first things discussed in the Bible by the presentation of the Garden of Eden.
First let me say that it is difficult for men to talk to women about feminism (and generally everything) because God made women smarter than men. Women have to be smarter than men and able to multitask because God designed women to do the most difficult job in the world and that is to raise children. Raising children requires great communication skill.
God designed men to be simpler so that men can do the one task that God designed men to do and that is to provide for his family. Men communicate by grunts and hand jesters.
The combination of a man and a women produces the combination of woman that can raise children with the provision of the man as the provider.
The following verses from the Bible, clearly state the above and define the Christian Family concept.
I Corinthians 11:3 states, "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
I Thimothy 5:8 states, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."
Exodus 20:12 states, " Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."
Feminism places the woman as equal with man. Feminism advocates that the woman provide for the family. The ones that are hurt by the breakdown of the Christian Family concept are the children.
Some would say the high divorce rate (breakdown of the Christian Family concept) is the fault of the man and others say it is the fault of the woman. I believe it is a reflection of the decline of Christianity in America.
Too many people are advocating the acceptability of being a single parent, but my experience is that being a single parent is a guarantee of hardship and poverty. There are many programs to try to make being a single parent to work, but the real solution is to return to the Christian Family concept of the Bible.
Much more effort needs to be spent on making the Christian Family concept work than on making the single parent concept or the "It takes a Village" concept to work.
Without children being raised by Christian parents, there will not be future Christians and I believe there will be no America when there are no Christians.
Please respond. Do you think feminism is consistent with scripture?
Being a mother, depending on a man, will not be rewarded on earth, but I believe will be rewarded in heaven.
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PassionFruit
I woke up like dis
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Before you try to make some criticisms about feminism I would suggest you learn a little bit more about it. You have a very narrow view of feminism. First, what do you mean by "God made women smarter than men?" What?
If that's the case why do women have to submit? How does feminism advocate that women be the provider? Why don't you point out feminists doctrine that shows this, not by making false claims. Once again, you proved you know nothing about feminism (feminisms). One of the things about feminism is that it teaches that people shouldn't be confined to specific gender roles. Meaning, a woman shouldn't have the caretaker, she can become a mother if that what she wants. Not because she is a woman, do understand what I'm saying? A woman should not have confined to specific role, just because she is a woman. The same with a man, he should not be confined to the role of being the provider, just because he is a man. The problem with gender roles is that it often puts people in boxes. I'm quite glad feminism conflicts with the Bible, because it was written by men, so of course it's going to be a bit sexist. There's nothing wrong with single parents, and not all people raised in single families turnout bad.
Also, as I pointed out before, look into feminism more because you don't know anything about it. If you want to have a valid claim against feminism, learn more about what you find wrong with it. Because whenever I talk to people about feminism, I spend more time trying dispel misconceptions about it, which is what you seem to have.
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Where does the bible say this? Do you have your own version of the bible? Did Jesus apply some kind of litmus test to determine why people were sick and only cure those that are responsible?
Mattthew 8:26
When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.
It does not say:
When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick, after it was confirned that their illness was not due to irresponsible behavior.
Matthew 25:31-36
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
It does not say:
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, after confirming that I was not hungry do to laziness or evil, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, but only because my thirstness was not a sign of my sinful behavior, I was a stranger and you invited me in after running a background check, I needed clothes and you clothed me on the condition that I would become a productive member of society, I was sick and you looked after me after making sure that I had insurance, I was in prison and you came to visit me because I was in fact innocent of a crime.
I cannot find a single place in the Gospels where Jesus encouraged selective care for the poor, sick, or homeless.
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blueapplepaste
the purpose of life is a life of purpose
Good post Grizzly!
There isn't a place. As I've said earlier, many on the right simply choose to ignore Jesus's teachings when it comes to clothing the naked, feeding the hungry, turning the other cheek and so on. It disagrees with their personal beliefs so they justify their positions as Christians by ignoring it. I can only pray that they can open up their hearts to the teachings of Him.
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PassionFruit quote
I'm quite glad feminism conflicts with the Bible, because it was written by men, so of course it's going to be a bit sexist. There's nothing wrong with single parents, and not all people raised in single families turnout bad.
Response
Well, I am glad we can agree that there is a conflict between feminism and the Bible.
The other question to resolve is which is the better path to follow.
You may call my statements as misconceptions, but I call them observations.
I have never seen anywhere that feminism has worked. People keep holding on to a faith that feminism is going to solve all the worlds problems, but all I see is the problems getting worse. The children and the elderly are being neglected so the woman can be herself.
Men no longer assume the role of provider, because feminism says women can take care of themselves.
The greatest deception of modern times was the phrase, "I am a woman, I can earn the bacon, cook it up in a pan, and make feel like a man". Women would been better served if the phrase had been, "I am a woman, you earn the bacon or you don't get to feel like a man".
I'm quite glad feminism conflicts with the Bible, because it was written by men, so of course it's going to be a bit sexist. There's nothing wrong with single parents, and not all people raised in single families turnout bad.
Response
Well, I am glad we can agree that there is a conflict between feminism and the Bible.
The other question to resolve is which is the better path to follow.
You may call my statements as misconceptions, but I call them observations.
I have never seen anywhere that feminism has worked. People keep holding on to a faith that feminism is going to solve all the worlds problems, but all I see is the problems getting worse. The children and the elderly are being neglected so the woman can be herself.
Men no longer assume the role of provider, because feminism says women can take care of themselves.
The greatest deception of modern times was the phrase, "I am a woman, I can earn the bacon, cook it up in a pan, and make feel like a man". Women would been better served if the phrase had been, "I am a woman, you earn the bacon or you don't get to feel like a man".
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christalee4
Senior Veteran
So then, if God does not sanction certain issues in politics, why do Christians need to vote for candidates who allegedly do?
HONORING GOD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS!
Our walk as Christians will determine what will happen, not our votes~!
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PassionFruit
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Well feminism has worked in a lot of areas, girls and women can attend college, pursue their own goals, vote, make decisions about what kind of relationships we want, decide when we want to have children, decide if we want to be married or not, etc. It seems you don't like that. So you don't like the fact that women don't have to rely on men for support. Well women shouldn't have to rely on a man for sole support. And because there are people who still hold your view about gender roles only goes to show that feminism is having influence.
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Harpuia
Oldie... very very oldie...
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tulc... I just think you're having WAY too much fun with these...clirus, that OP was classic clirus!
tulc(do you save those and then pop them out every couple of months or re-write them each time?)
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lol lol lol
funny.
Clirus>> I'm sorry bro, but your radical fundamentalism is whats destroying Christianity and this country if anything.
porn may be offensive, but thats the price of freedom of press/speech. Good and bad thing go hand-in-hand.
Feminism destroys the cornerstone of the family? Why? Because the Bible says women should be men's slaves and cultured in the domestic-arts? riiiiiight. Go back to the eighteenth century and beat a defiant woman with a rod no wider than your thumb if you're so convinced feminism is a bad thing.
no, man does not have dominion over nature. I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some dude trash my backyard because "God said I could do whatever I wanted with the enviornment". Bull spit, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna allow people to spread such nonsense. God didn't give us this earth to abuse, ok?. Enviornmentalism DOESNT mean worshipping nature. Praising, and loving nature is NOT WORSHIPING it. God is as much in nature as He is within us. God is in the rocks, trees, and wind too y'know?
socialism is govt worship? no, I'm pretty sure no one worships govt.
the good comes with the bad, and vice versa. would it have been better if God stripped people of free will so they did everything perfectly? But that sounds imperfect too. Or does God give us free will so we make the right choice? We're gonna screw stuff up half the time, but when we do somethign right, at least it was an honest action of righteousness.
GOD WANTS SPIRITUAL FRUITS!
not religious nuts!!!!!!
funny.
Clirus>> I'm sorry bro, but your radical fundamentalism is whats destroying Christianity and this country if anything.
porn may be offensive, but thats the price of freedom of press/speech. Good and bad thing go hand-in-hand.
Feminism destroys the cornerstone of the family? Why? Because the Bible says women should be men's slaves and cultured in the domestic-arts? riiiiiight. Go back to the eighteenth century and beat a defiant woman with a rod no wider than your thumb if you're so convinced feminism is a bad thing.
no, man does not have dominion over nature. I'll be damned if I'm gonna let some dude trash my backyard because "God said I could do whatever I wanted with the enviornment". Bull spit, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna allow people to spread such nonsense. God didn't give us this earth to abuse, ok?. Enviornmentalism DOESNT mean worshipping nature. Praising, and loving nature is NOT WORSHIPING it. God is as much in nature as He is within us. God is in the rocks, trees, and wind too y'know?
socialism is govt worship? no, I'm pretty sure no one worships govt.
the good comes with the bad, and vice versa. would it have been better if God stripped people of free will so they did everything perfectly? But that sounds imperfect too. Or does God give us free will so we make the right choice? We're gonna screw stuff up half the time, but when we do somethign right, at least it was an honest action of righteousness.
GOD WANTS SPIRITUAL FRUITS!
not religious nuts!!!!!!
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Christianity CAN be harmful if the power is in the hands of the wrong people, much like practically anything and everything.
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YoungJoonKim
Senior Member
I see better world with Christ
He has not forced his belief upon individual, he shared with them.
He saw beauty of decisions and freedom of individual and what truly becomes of it.
Jesus is good and we are not.
No one is good, we are only limited to "good works", we can never be good.
Jesus says, "decide"
not "subject"
So let everyone "decide"
And fight for justice, not false pride and reality.
He has not forced his belief upon individual, he shared with them.
He saw beauty of decisions and freedom of individual and what truly becomes of it.
Jesus is good and we are not.
No one is good, we are only limited to "good works", we can never be good.
Jesus says, "decide"
not "subject"
So let everyone "decide"
And fight for justice, not false pride and reality.
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