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Oh oh i love analogies. Lets try this unrelated one. Its like a Father (God) giving his children a gun, telling them not to play with the gun knowing ahead of time that they will. And then punishing them when they play with it.You guys and your [so-called] science, is like a little kid with a real gun.
And your analogy fails.Oh oh i love analogies. Lets try this unrelated one. Its like a Father (God) giving his children a gun, telling them not to play with the gun knowing ahead of time that they will. And then punishing them when they play with it.
Can you guess where the shows up in the bible?
This led to some years of my entertaining very silly ideas, wherein I regarded all christians as superstitious fools incapable of a coherent belief system.
I've met more reasonable believers since then, and they helped disabuse me of these notions, but none communicated as deep and thorough an integration of science, critical thinking, decency, and christianity as I've learned is possible from reading these boards.
I think if my first substantial interaction with evangelism had been with a mature, intelligent theistic evolutionist I could be a christian today. As it stands now, I've reopened the possibility. I don't expect to convert, but if enough questions get answered in a way that resonates with me I may.
God in general?
I would say without holiness no man shall see God. Even if you want to catch a fish you have to use the right bait.
Who are you talking to? are you in linear mode? if not, I can give you instructions how to switch.Wow this forum moves fast.
I meant my story in part as a message to christians who don't reject science. I suspect that my case - where the loudest and most evangelical group in my area were creationists, is common. If they are the first christians to get to people like me, people like me are going to reject christianity. Is a group of creationists the loudest and most evangelical group of christians in your community? Why? Are they bringing more seekers to the faith than they are pushing away?
But, of course, part of the reason that I posted a story instead of asking that directly was that I hoped the discussion would go off in ways I didn't expect, which it certainly did.
As for converting me in particular (if that's what interests you), I don't think this thread would be the place to do it, because many of the questions I'd need answered have nothing to do with science. If you're interested in that, feel free to PM me.
Who are you talking to? are you in linear mode? if not, I can give you instructions how to switch.
That is, of course, unless it is impossible to both believe in strongly supported scientific theories such as evolution and be christian. In that case, I ain't ever getting saved.
Is it possible to be a mature, intelligent Christian without being an evolutionist?
FYI, none of the authors of the Bible were "mature, intelligent theistic evolutionist", and every Christian on the planet today are believers because of what those authors taught.
Then what would you say to someone who pursued god for years and was left empty handed?
So how does that work, we need to be holy? Ever met someone holy yet?
I am. But holy is hardly the word that I'd use to describe me. Funny, when I meet people that think they are holy, a difference of opinion seems to emerge...
Anyway it's just a story so live with it.
Where are we going with this? R U really interested in getting saved and getting right with God? Because we can help you with that. But there are other boards on here that are more set up for that sort of thing. A new convert is like a new baby and they can bring you along one baby step at a time. To help you to understand the work that God is doing in your life.The Christian god.
So god must be baited?
It don't matter who pushed you from believing this or that! You won't have anyone to point a finger at, you will stand before God all by yourself. and regardless of who taught you what, and who did this or that isn't going to amount to a hill of beans. you will stand before God and be judged, let me let you in on a little secret, your own mind is keeping the record. I have first hand experience on how this works, I was shown every sinful thing I ever did all at the same time, It doesn't make sense I know, but it was like looking up at a star filled night sky, and I could clearly see tens of thousands of incidences of sinful acts, all at the same time, and again all at the same time I was able to acknowledge each and every act individually, you say this sounds impossible, God is impossible to comprehend, if you think your going to fathem and understand Him you won't, but I assure you someday you will believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is very real, and everything He does, seems to break all laws and physics and perameters of what we know and understand.......one last thought, He said he was going to make the wise look foolish.....so don't get to wiseFirst, let me note that I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this post or it's even allowed in these forums in general. If it shouldn't be here, I'd ask a mod to move it to the right forum or delete it.
This is a personal story, and one I think worth telling, but as a personal story when I use any possibly controversial terms such as science, evolution, christianity, decency, or critical thinking the definitions I'm using are mine.
I grew up in an atheist household. Religion wasn't really talked about. Around the time I was graduating high school and starting college, when I was younger and stupider than I even am now, I became really aware of my atheism and my lack of conviction in it. So I set out to explore religion.
When it came to christianity, my exploration became intertwined with the loudest and most evangelical group of christians in my area. They told me that in order to be a christian, I would have to believe that the earth was 6,000 years old, that evolution wasn't science, that the big bang never happened, that basically all of the facts, ideas, and reasoning tools I had grown up adoring must be thrown out. Unsurprisingly, I rejected them instead.
The worst part, the part where my immaturity led me astray, was that I believed them when they told me that they stood for christianity. I believed them when they said there was no compatibility between christianity and what I called critical thinking. And I generalized, more or less, their beliefs to all christians.
This led to some years of my entertaining very silly ideas, wherein I regarded all christians as superstitious fools incapable of a coherent belief system. I've met more reasonable believers since then, and they helped disabuse me of these notions, but none communicated as deep and thorough an integration of science, critical thinking, decency, and christianity as I've learned is possible from reading these boards. I think if my first substantial interaction with evangelism had been with a mature, intelligent theistic evolutionist I could be a christian today. As it stands now, I've reopened the possibility. I don't expect to convert, but if enough questions get answered in a way that resonates with me I may.
That is, of course, unless it is impossible to both believe in strongly supported scientific theories such as evolution and be christian. In that case, I ain't ever getting saved.
It is my contention that scientific theories often contradict reality and this is why they are often falsified.
Well, neither you nor I have a dress...right? Neither you nor I are all that holy...right? What we should pretend?
God does test people. In fact we are all tested. It all comes down to He is God and we are not. As a Christian we learn how to submit ourselves to Him and His plan. I have learned that my way of doing things does not work. I am far better off to follow God and to do things His way.Why would God put it there if it was not to be part of his plans?
That is why they had to come up with quantum physics.everything He does, seems to break all laws and physics and perameters of what we know and understand.......
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