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How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

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Non sequitur

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Yes, they could pay the mafia and not be killed.

That's called extortion and coercion.
 
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MoonLancer

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In the Bible if Jesus uses a name then it is a real person.
Adam, Eve, Noah are all real people that are in the geneology of Jesus.
I'm afraid simply making a statement without anything to back it up is not very convincing.


this does not address my point or issue. The other poster made the assertion that people would not sacrifice themselves for an untrue cause. and that somehow this shows that Christianity is true. People sacrifice themselves for untrue causes all the time. Christians make this agument quit a bit, and its bunk. Real world examples show it to be wrong.
 
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underheaven

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You say there is no cosmic law,but that is patent nonsense.
The whole universe works on a system of interactive laws which
when changed only slightly would send all of us ,the planets,and
the other universes into total destruct mode .
While not being a scientist in this field,anyone who reads knows this.:o
 
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Golden Yak

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You realize he's talking about the concept of karma, not the laws of physics.

I mean, it's right there in the quote you made.
 
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Non sequitur

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Nobody is arguing laws.

You kinda left out the point of the statement; there are no cosmic consequences (karma).
 
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underheaven

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Suberb
 
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Non sequitur

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Correlation does not imply causation.

If anything, those might be reasons for believing in a "god" or "gods", but it gives no direction as to which is the "correct" one.
 
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Catherineanne

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So, why is there a Hell in the first place?

Good question.

God created the Universe, in which he is omnipresent; it all places at all times, sustaining life by his love. He then created mankind, and gave us free will to either follow his wishes for our lives, or to go our own sweet way.

When we go our own sweet way, sometimes we do evil things. If in the process of doing those evil things God were to remain just as present as he is when we are in a state of Grace, we would be destroyed; his holiness would destroy the evil, and it would also destroy us along with it.

In order not to destroy everyone who is being disobedient to his will, God withdraws his presence from that place where they are, during the time when they are acting contrary to his will. This is an act of mercy, in order to give them time to repent and return to him.

The place or existence without the active presence of God is hell. The worst kind of hell is on earth, and involves living a life directly contrary to the will of God, in the full knowledge that he has forbidden that kind of life. And for what is forbidden most strongly, see the ten commandments.

When we accept the Lord and submit once more to his will, then he is able to enter fully into our hearts and our lives, and the more we conform ourselves to his will, the less of hell we encounter, and the more of eternity.
 
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Catherineanne

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You have two choices.

A God is always the agent of our salvation, which is standard orthodox belief for pretty well the whole of Christendom. Which in turn is pretty good going, considering the amount of disagreement that there is around. God does not 'pick and choose' as if we are on some kind of buffet. God calls those he chooses to call, at the time he chooses to call them, and his voice does not go unanswered.

As for why some people are called early in life, and others later, well that one is covered by the parable of the vineyard; sometimes it just happens that way.

B Man is capable of effecting his own salvation, which is heresy from the high to the low churches. Aka works theology.

Up to you, really.
 
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Catherineanne

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Well, a loving god would most certainly not send one of his own children to an eternity in hell for using the very brains he gave them, especially knowing how they operate.

See you there

God does not send anyone to hell. Those who go there do so because they choose to. There is no eternal torment, except that of being without God.

Hell is choosing to live without God. You won't see me there, because I choose to live in obedience to God.
 
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Catherineanne

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This is certainly true. I have had a very difficult few (ie more than 20) years, and these difficult years have led me back to God. This does not work for everyone; for some difficulties result in them rejecting God, but I was more fortunate.

It is often said that God takes away the things we value in life one by one until there is nothing left but reliance on him. This has been my experience.
 
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Catherineanne

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No it is not ok. It is a story.

 
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Non sequitur

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God does not send anyone to hell. Those who go there do so because they choose to. There is no eternal torment, except that of being without God.

That's like saying the mafia doesn't kill people, people kill themselves.

Hell is choosing to live without God.

If there is a god, I wouldn't want to purposefully live without him.

You won't see me there, because I choose to live in obedience to God.

I meant, I'll see you in heaven.
 
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Catherineanne

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I agree. Big Bang is a myth.

Fortunately, this kind of thinking is not mandatory in Christianity.

I use the term 'thinking' loosely, of course.

There is nothing in the Big Bang theory to contradict Christianity, and much to confirm what Christians believe. For one thing, if you ask a scientist what happened five minutes before the Big Bang, s/he will say the question is meaningless. Time began at the Big Bang, and science cannot comment about anything outside time. Similarly, Christianity places God outside time, and in eternity.

Eternity does not mean lasting forever; that is a description inside time. Eternity means outside time, changeless and eternally the same.

God is therefore outside his creation, changeless and eternal. Which is why science is not interested in proving or disproving God, as some Christians mistakenly claim; it has nothing to say about anything outside creation.
 
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Catherineanne

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Since when was, 'I think what Paul meant was ... ' Scripture? Particularly when you have not found the verses quoted for yourself, in order to check the context.

You can't have it both ways. If you insist on direct Biblical evidence, you can't at the same time present your own personal opinion and expect anyone to take it seriously.

If God had wanted to talk about scientific evidence he would have done so. It is rather mischievous to suggest that he did not quite get the words right, and so has to rely on you coming along 2,000 years later to put us all straight. That would make God rather inadequate, don't you think?
 
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MoonLancer

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No one chooses to go to hell. God simply sends people to hell who are not Obedient. If God does not do everything in his power to help everyone to get into heaven then he is not all loving. If he exists he knows exactly what would convince me that it is so.

The cards are in his hands.

However YOU are obligated to believe that he does not send people to hell. This is simply a word game because a god who sends people to hell is not an easy God to defend.

If God ONLY has the POWER to save those who are obedient that's another story. But then he is not an all powerful god.
 
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Non sequitur

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Nicely put!
 
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