How some creationists pushed me away from christianity

Mr. Pedantic · Jul 22, 2011

Jazer said:
Harry Potter has NOTHING to do with witchcraft? Yeah right.

Wow. This must be the biggest red herring I've ever seen.

The contents of neither the Odyssey nor Harry Potter have anything to do with my argument, which is that even fictional works reference real locations and events. Saying that just because some work references a historical location, therefore that work is completely non-fictional, is not only affirming the consequent, but also a hasty generalization. Please familiarize yourself with how to conduct logical discourse (this may be a good place to start).

Jazer · Jul 22, 2011

Mr. Pedantic said:
Newton's Third Law.

Does his law cover time?
Is there a clock somewhere that runs backwards
or perhaps negative time in some parallel universe?

selfinflikted · Jul 22, 2011

Jazer said:
Really there are no consequences?
People can just do whatever they want to do?

Are we really having this conversation?

There are several kinds of laws, for instance in the United States, of which includes criminal law, again for instance. If I am caught breaking said law, law enforcement, through the legal system, will punish me for it.

There is, however, no cosmic law or cosmic law enforcement and therefore no cosmic consequences (e.g. "karma"). You do understand the difference between the two, right?

Jazer · Jul 22, 2011

Mr. Pedantic said:
Please familiarize yourself with how to conduct logical discourse

I have taken graduate level courses on debate. The thing is that it's an old arguement. Perhaps you should search out some of the old posts to see where this arguement has gone before on here. As for the Harry Potter thing, I do not like young people being corrupted and perhaps that is not where your wanting to go with this.
Because so often it comes down to we have our opinion and you have yours.

Jazer · Jul 22, 2011

selfinflikted said:
Are we really having this conversation?

I am ready to have a conversation about law. The law of Moses, man's law, the natural laws of science. Even I started a post on Hittite law that was before the law of Moses and yet looks like the Mosaic law. Actually that would be 4500 years ago and the beginning of written law.

That may not be where your wanting to go with all of this though.

Jazer · Jul 22, 2011

docpotter said:
Would the early Christians have been willing to be beheaded , fed to lions , and crucified themselves over a lie ?

They were not so brave when Jesus went to the Cross.

docpotter · Jul 22, 2011

He didn't rise from the dead at that point now did he

selfinflikted · Jul 22, 2011

Jazer said:
I am ready to have a conversation about law. The law of Moses, man's law, the natural laws of science. Even I started a post on Hittite law that was before the law of Moses and yet looks like the Mosaic law. Actually that would be 4500 years ago and the beginning of written law.

That may not be where your wanting to go with all of this though.

Are you drinking tonight? You keep evading the point of every post I make and switch gears to something completely irrelevant.

Jazer · Jul 22, 2011

selfinflikted said:
Are you drinking tonight? You keep evading the point of every post I make and switch gears to something completely irrelevant.

Sorry, my mind does jump around.
My wife and son just got back from their vaccation,
so maybe that has me a bit distracted.

I do not drink. I was a single parent for 12 years and I quit drinking so I could devote myself to that. I actually do not like alcohol or drugs. They are like a poison to me, they make me sick. God gives us all the joy and peace we need. He comforts us in our time of need. So we do not have any use for that stuff.

selfinflikted · Jul 22, 2011

Jazer said:
Sorry, my mind does jump around.
My wife and son just got back from their vaccation,
so maybe that has me a bit distracted.

I do not drink. I was a single parent for 12 years and I quit drinking so I could devote myself to that. I actually do not like alcohol or drugs. They are like a poison to me, they make me sick. God gives us all the joy and peace we need. He comforts us in our time of need. So we do not have any use for that stuff.

Fair enough. Go spend some time with the fam, then.

AV1611VET · Jul 22, 2011

docpotter said:
Time was re written for Christ . it is 2011 because of him . Not Buddah , not Mohammed , not Tom Cruise . He was fore told in the old testament , and fulfilled every prophecy to the letter. He walked on water, healed the blind, leapers , lame. If this was all made up it would have never been told. Had he not risen from the dead , we would not be having this discussion . Another thought to consider. Would the early Christians have been willing to be beheaded , fed to lions , and crucified themselves over a lie ?

AV1611VET · Jul 22, 2011

Jazer said:
They were not so brave when Jesus went to the Cross.

This is true -- they kept their distance from the Cross -- except one man: John.

And if you study history, everyone of the disciples that kept their distance died a martyr's death.

John, who went right to the foot of the Cross, died in exile on the island of Patmos.

Non sequitur · Jul 22, 2011

docpotter said:
I think their brain made them experience something or they were a nut case.

Now, here I would say you are hoping that is the case . You have maybe heard a scientist say that this is just the brain dying. I also have heard this. But lets remember these are men that fight God and creation tooth and nail, and feel that they have to explain everything from a non - God point of view. I would say to you do your own research on negative near death experiences. Its amazing how similar they are from people of different countries, ages, and walks of life.

What anybody tries to prove is irrelevant.

Also, there are differences. So what?

You can't argue that someone's brain can make them believe anything to be real, when it's not real.

docpotter said:
Sending people to hell is not very nice

Would you, if you were God, send Adolf Hitler to hell, or let him have everlasting life for billions of years in paradise ?

You could also ask would I, if I were God, send 0people who weren't Adolf Hitler to hell, or let them have everlasting life for billions of years in paradise?

I am not a god, so arguing based on emotion is a weak argument.

docpotter said:
I wonder why he cares whether or not I deny him because I never see or talk to him.

Paul says in Romans ( I believe , or Corinthians ) that God has shown every man his works in nature and in people, and we basically have no excuse to know he is there . We cannot see God of course, and that, I think, is his plan , how could we seek God, and have free will to chose him, if he appeared to us , and to everyone in the world ? He wants us to seek him. And when you do , you will find him . Its very hard to understand God , without knowing what he wants and doesnt want from us. I cannot stress enough how important it is to know the bible, and I have a long way to go, but I read some every day .

All that rambling never answered the question about why he would care, enough to send anybody to a hell.

docpotter · Jul 23, 2011

He doesn't send you to hell , as much as you send you to hell. And he just allows Satan to claim you .

Non sequitur · Jul 23, 2011

docpotter said:
He doesn't send you to hell , as much as you send you to hell. And he just allows Satan to claim you .

Right.

And the mafia doesn't kill people when they don't pay the vig. They kill themselves, by not paying.

docpotter · Jul 23, 2011

Well, they could pay right ? and be set free ? The eternal reward or eternal punishment is 100 % up to us period . God isn't a cruel sadist , Satan on the other hand is, and spends every day all day , trying to deceive you . Trying to make you feel very " smart" and prideful , until you are mocking God in a public forum .

Split Rock · Jul 23, 2011

docpotter said:
He doesn't send you to hell , as much as you send you to hell. And he just allows Satan to claim you .

So, why is there a Hell in the first place?

MoonLancer · Jul 23, 2011

docpotter said:
Time was re written for Christ .

Well it wasn't time, it was the calender. I'm not impressed that a theocracy managed this. not one bit.

and fulfilled every prophecy to the letter.

rewriting history also does not impress me.

If this was all made up it would have never been told.

there are many myths and legends that were written, are they true as well? you do realize other religions exist besides Christianity, right? are they real because after all it would never have been told if it was made up.

Another thought to consider. Would the early Christians have been willing to be beheaded , fed to lions , and crucified themselves over a lie

Yes. people die for lies ever day. People die for what they want to believe. Do you think Muslims would back down from what they believe? they blow themselves up over it. is it a lie? By your reasoning it must not be. by my reasoning it is still a lie.

Jazer · Jul 23, 2011

MoonLancer said:
Yes. people die for lies ever day. People die for what they want to believe. Do you think Muslims would back down from what they believe? they blow themselves up over it. is it a lie? By your reasoning it must not be. by my reasoning it is still a lie.

Isn't anyone that dies in their sin, willing to die for a lie? The serpent deceived Eve and that resulted in death. Then the question is, what is the second death? Who is able to excape the second death. Because we know that liars are not going to excape the second death.

Rev 21

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Jazer · Jul 23, 2011

MoonLancer said:
there are many myths and legends that were written

In the Bible if Jesus uses a name then it is a real person.
Adam, Eve, Noah are all real people that are in the geneology of Jesus.

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