How should we read Paul?

[jerry kelso]

You are entitled to your opinion.
But I know Paul was dishonest in his use of Habakkuk 2:4 I made my case. If you don't choose to understand that is fine with me. But don't waste any more of my time questioning my "veracity."

Paul was also lying when he said the Law was ordained by angels when we both know that YHWH gave the Law to Israel.

nicknotes,

1. Paul believed in the just living by faith.

2. The righteousness of the Mosaic law and the righteousness of faith of the new covenant are two different things.
The law righteousness of the Mosaic law was performing the commandments and living in them.
The righteousness of Faith is faith in the death burial, and resurrection of Christ.

3. Faith was in every age in whatever revelation they had of the redemptive plan of God.
Moses was in the hall of fame of faith and he was the one who gave the law.
Israel didn't attain the righteousness of the law of Moses because they sought it not by faith but by the works of the law Romans 9:31-32.

4. You have your terms mixed up which is just about the same principle as those who believe there was no grace in the old testament. The truth is that there was grace in the old covenant and there are laws in the new testament. One has to understand the word in its proper perspective. Jerry Kelso

 

[redleghunter]

The available evidence does not indicate that Jesus was the legitimate Messiah. He didn't fulfill any of the Messianic prophecies. He did not accomplish anything that we can see to benefit mankind.

I am hopeful that eventually the true Messiah will show up.

Then may I ask why you identify as messianic?

 

[redleghunter]

nicknotes,

1. Paul believed in the just living by faith.

2. The righteousness of the Mosaic law and the righteousness of faith of the new covenant are two different things.
The law righteousness of the Mosaic law was performing the commandments and living in them.
The righteousness of Faith is faith in the death burial, and resurrection of Christ.

3. Faith was in every age in whatever revelation they had of the redemptive plan of God.
Moses was in the hall of fame of faith and he was the one who gave the law.
Israel didn't attain the righteousness of the law of Moses because they sought it not by faith but by the works of the law Romans 9:31-32.

4. You have your terms mixed up which is just about the same principle as those who believe there was no grace in the old testament. The truth is that there was grace in the old covenant and there are laws in the new testament. One has to understand the word in its proper perspective. Jerry Kelso

Before the Mosaic Law the just lived by faith.

Genesis 15:6

 

[jerry kelso]

The available evidence does not indicate that Jesus was the legitimate Messiah. He didn't fulfill any of the Messianic prophecies. He did not accomplish anything that we can see to benefit mankind.

I am hopeful that eventually the true Messiah will show up.

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Before the Mosaic Law the just lived by faith.

Genesis 15:6

redleghunter,

That is right because Enoch was translated by faith and every generation has had to have faith in whatever revelation of the redemptive plan had. This is what people misunderstand and confuse the issues such as faith, love and law and grace as well. One has to understand the correct terms and what they mean as a rule of life in every age according to gradual revelation. Jerry Kelso

 

[redleghunter]

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

I will add the following to highlight your comments above:

Isaiah 61: New King James Version (NKJV)

“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;
To comfort all who mourn,
3 To console those who mourn in Zion,
To give them beauty for ashes,
The oil of joy for mourning,
The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;
That they may be called trees of righteousness,
The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified.”


Luke 4: New King James Version (NKJV)

16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

 

[Strong in Him]

I don't think that there is enough credible evidence to believe in Paul's Damascus Road experience.

Don't you think that Paul's own life is evidence enough of this?

Think about it for a moment.
Saul of Tarsus hated the followers of Jesus. He was a Pharisee who was zealous for the law and he actively persecuted fellow Jews who, as far as he was concerned, were preaching a false Messiah. Despite his zeal for the law he stood and watched a murder taking place - breaking one of the 10 commandments. And because the person being illegally stoned to death was one of these followers of Jesus, he even approved of it. After this murder, he started to go to Damascus to get letters which would get these disciples arrested.
On the way there, he had a dramatic experience. As a result, when he got to Damascus he joined the disciples there and immediately began preaching that Jesus was the Messiah. They tried to kill him.
For the rest of his life, Paul preached Jesus, talked and wrote about Jesus, reasoned and explained the Gospel to Jews and Gentiles alike. He was arrested, beaten, mocked, and stoned - many times - for this faith. Eventually he was put to death. He knew it would happen, but he still proclaimed Jesus, and the Gospel.

What do you think it was that changed Saul from being someone who hated Jesus and killed Christians, into someone who preached Jesus and was willing to die for him? If not the power of God; what?

I have pointed out that Paul was a murderer, that he was an unrepentant murderer.

He was baptised, healed, filled with the Holy Spirit, and began preaching the Gospel of love and forgiveness. What evidence do you have that he wasn't repentant?

I have pointed out that Paul was a liar.

From what I can see, you have quoted one verse and interpreted it to prove that Paul lied.
Even if that interpretation was correct, it doesn't mean that Paul lied about everything.
All of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God - that's not a lie.
The wages of sin is death - that's not a lie.
Jesus died for sinners and was raised again - that's not a lie.
Jesus died, was raised again, has given his Holy Spirit, is with us always and will return one day - none of those things are lies.

Would you believe a lying murderer? I don't.

I believe someone who was changed and empowered by the Holy Spirit, preached the Gospel, led people to the Lord, founded churches and who wrote words that have, for centuries, been blessing and encouraging Christians in their faith and helping them to grow. Words like those in Romans 8, or 1 Corinthians 13.
I believe in the God who has power to change anyone - don't you?

 

[Der Alte]

I don't think that there is enough credible evidence to believe in Paul's Damascus Road experience.
I have pointed out that Paul was a murderer, that he was an unrepentant murderer.
I have pointed out that Paul was a liar.
Would you believe a lying murderer? I don't.

David was an adulterer and a murderer. Would you believe and adulterer and murderer?

 

[Der Alte]

I think you know I am correct but you have too much invested in the status quo to correct your theology.

I had a big laugh over this. Someone saying the equivalent of, "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!" does not impress me. Although I attended Sunday School sporadically as a child until about age 10, I did not become a Christian until my mid 20s when Johnson was president, thus I was not indoctrinated in anything, ever. I never believed anything just because a pastor or teacher said it, I always checked everything from day one. I started learning to speak Greek the year that Elvis and I were stationed in Germany and formally studied both Biblical languages about 2 decades after that.

 

[nick notes]

nicknotes,

1. Paul believed in the just living by faith.

2. The righteousness of the Mosaic law and the righteousness of faith of the new covenant are two different things.
The law righteousness of the Mosaic law was performing the commandments and living in them.
The righteousness of Faith is faith in the death burial, and resurrection of Christ.

3. Faith was in every age in whatever revelation they had of the redemptive plan of God.
Moses was in the hall of fame of faith and he was the one who gave the law.
Israel didn't attain the righteousness of the law of Moses because they sought it not by faith but by the works of the law Romans 9:31-32.

4. You have your terms mixed up which is just about the same principle as those who believe there was no grace in the old testament. The truth is that there was grace in the old covenant and there are laws in the new testament. One has to understand the word in its proper perspective. Jerry Kelso

Thank you for expressing your opinions so eloquently.

 

[nick notes]

Then may I ask why you identify as messianic?

Why are you always interested in me and not in my theological presentations?
I am irrelevant to this discussion. Focus on the Scriptural messages i have posted.

 

[nick notes]

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

Did Jesus do this? NO!

But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

Did Jesus do this? NO!

They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Has Jesus made this happen? NO!

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Has Jesus gathered the Twelve tribes of Israel? NO!

And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Is Jesus sitting on the throne in the tabernacle of David? NO!

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:

Is Jesus a King executing justice in the earth? Are Judah and Israel dwelling in safety? NO!

I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour.

Has iniquity been removed? Is every man a neighbor? NO!

Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Did Jesus build the Temple and sit upon his throne? NO!

But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For the arms of the wicked will be broken,
But the Lord sustains the righteous.
The Lord knows the days of the blameless,
And their inheritance will be forever.
They will not be ashamed in the time of evil,
And in the days of famine they will have abundance.
But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.

Has this happened? NO!

“Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’”

Has this happened? NO!

And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Has this happened? NO!

They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Has this happened? NO!

 

[nick notes]

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

Let's take a peak at Isaiah 53.....
Isaiah 53:3 (New American Standard Bible)
3He was despised and forsaken of men,
A man of sorrows and acquainted with grief;
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

Do you think that description fits Jesus?
I think that Jesus was wildly popular, and people crowded around him, and listened to him speak.

Matthew 4:23-25 (New American Standard Bible)
23Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.
24The news about Him spread throughout all Syria; and they brought to Him all who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics; and He healed them.
25Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan.

I can probably find a dozen passages like this showing how popular Jesus was. Think about preaching to the multitude the sermon on the mount, feeding the 5000, feeding the 4000, riding a donkey into town to the cheers of his countrymen.
Jesus was mobbed every time he showed up. He was more popular than the Beatles.

This verse does not describe Jesus.

 

[nick notes]

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

Another reason why Isaiah 53 is not about Jesus
Isaiah 53:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

“he shall see his seed”

Seed.. Strong’s #2233 Zehrag in Hebrew
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, gives agricultural definitions for the Hebrew word for “seed” and the definition, sperm virile, offspring.

In the Septuagint Greek translation “seed” is translated with the Greek word “sperma” which indicates a clear meaning for seed in this verse.

Since Jesus never married according to Christian Tradition, this “seed” cannot apply to Jesus.

In instances in the Bible where “spiritual children “ are mentioned the Hebrew word “behn” Strongs # 1121 is used in contrast to the word “zehrag” which clearly refers to offspring of a sexual union.
For Example..
Deuteronomy 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

 

[Lulav]

MOD HAT ON

A note of caution
The SOP of this forum is as such

Faith groups that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation whereby He, as God, took on human flesh (becoming fully God and fully man in one person), are considered non-Christians at CF. Posts that deny the full, eternal deity of Jesus Christ or His incarnation are considered non-Christian theology and are not allowed in "Christians Only" forums.

Although this is Controversial Christianity you must be a Christian by
the above standards to post in this forum
MOD HAT OFF​

 

[nick notes]

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

You wrote.....""3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

OK...so tell me what Jesus accomplished for all mankind.

 

[nick notes]

nick notes,

1. What is your proof that Jesus was not the legitimate Messiah? Moses said that God would send one like him and Jesus fit that description and the KOH and the KOG message was all about the millennial kingdom reign on earth being set up with Israel at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4 and Isaiah 9:6-7. Jesus said, Repent for the KOH is at hand Matthew 4:17. The jews rejected him Matthew 23:37-39.

2. He didn't fulfill any Messianic prophecies?
Isaiah 53 is a perfect description of the Messiah. His whole life of following the Torah and fulfilling the law was prophetic of the Messiah, etc.

3. The jews were astounded at how he taught the Torah and the authority he used. He accomplished plenty for all mankind and is the reason that he is the all time champion of Love.

4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts. This has to happen with the whole nation.
They missed the suffering Savior of Isaiah 53 and so do you.
Revelation 1:7 says that the Lord will come back on the Day of the Lord at the battle of Armageddon and he says in that verse that those who pierced his side will mourn which means to repent. The jews pierced his side and Jesus taught Blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.
You need to understand what the death, burial and resurrection of Christ brought and means. Jerry kelso

You wrote...4. The reason you are hoping for the true Messiah to come is because you are just like those jews in Jesus days that was looking for a conquering Savior and the physical KOH and forgot the spiritual KOG in their hearts.
Do you think you know what is going on in my mind?

 

[nick notes]

Don't you think that Paul's own life is evidence enough of this?

Think about it for a moment.
Saul of Tarsus hated the followers of Jesus. He was a Pharisee who was zealous for the law and he actively persecuted fellow Jews who, as far as he was concerned, were preaching a false Messiah. Despite his zeal for the law he stood and watched a murder taking place - breaking one of the 10 commandments. And because the person being illegally stoned to death was one of these followers of Jesus, he even approved of it. After this murder, he started to go to Damascus to get letters which would get these disciples arrested.
On the way there, he had a dramatic experience. As a result, when he got to Damascus he joined the disciples there and immediately began preaching that Jesus was the Messiah. They tried to kill him.
For the rest of his life, Paul preached Jesus, talked and wrote about Jesus, reasoned and explained the Gospel to Jews and Gentiles alike. He was arrested, beaten, mocked, and stoned - many times - for this faith. Eventually he was put to death. He knew it would happen, but he still proclaimed Jesus, and the Gospel.

What do you think it was that changed Saul from being someone who hated Jesus and killed Christians, into someone who preached Jesus and was willing to die for him? If not the power of God; what?



He was baptised, healed, filled with the Holy Spirit, and began preaching the Gospel of love and forgiveness. What evidence do you have that he wasn't repentant?



From what I can see, you have quoted one verse and interpreted it to prove that Paul lied.
Even if that interpretation was correct, it doesn't mean that Paul lied about everything.
All of us have sinned and fall short of the glory of God - that's not a lie.
The wages of sin is death - that's not a lie.
Jesus died for sinners and was raised again - that's not a lie.
Jesus died, was raised again, has given his Holy Spirit, is with us always and will return one day - none of those things are lies.



I believe someone who was changed and empowered by the Holy Spirit, preached the Gospel, led people to the Lord, founded churches and who wrote words that have, for centuries, been blessing and encouraging Christians in their faith and helping them to grow. Words like those in Romans 8, or 1 Corinthians 13.
I believe in the God who has power to change anyone - don't you?

I think you are asking me why I think Paul changed to join the Christian movement.
Here is a clue.....
1 Corinthians 9:9-14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing.” God is not concerned about oxen, is He? 10 Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher to threshin hope of sharing the crops. 11 If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you? 12 If others share the right over you, do we not more? Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ. 13 Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar? 14 So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

This is a very slick little speech.
First he says...If we sowed spiritual things in you, is it too much if we reap material things from you?... He is asking for money.

But then he says.....Nevertheless, we did not use this right, but we endure all things so that we will cause no hindrance to the gospel of Christ.......now Paul is playing coy like he doesn't really want any money.

But then Paul goes on to close the sale....Do you not know that those who perform sacred services eat the food of the temple, and those who attend regularly to the altar have their share from the altar? 14 So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.....with this pitch..the Lord directed you pay me..he closes the deal.

Paul was the original TV televangelist getting rich by fleecing the sheep.
Smarten-up and realize who Paul really was.

 

[nick notes]

David was an adulterer and a murderer. Would you believe and adulterer and murderer?

No ...I would be very wary of David.

 

[nick notes]

I had a big laugh over this. Someone saying the equivalent of, "I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh Huh!" does not impress me. Although I attended Sunday School sporadically as a child until about age 10, I did not become a Christian until my mid 20s when Johnson was president, thus I was not indoctrinated in anything, ever. I never believed anything just because a pastor or teacher said it, I always checked everything from day one. I started learning to speak Greek the year that Elvis and I were stationed in Germany and formally studied both Biblical languages about 2 decades after that.

It is very admirable that you are fluent in the Bible languages.