How should we keep the Sabbath holy?

SabbathBlessings said:

I'm not a very good thread moderator, I have been trying to get things back on topic for a while and failed miserably.

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I think that is the problem with most threads everyone has though not just you sis. They all tend to go off topic sooner or latter. For me I just let the threads run a bit in any direction then try and give a gentle reminder post of the OP.

HARK! said:

I didn't read your wall of text.
I simple question deserves a simple answer.

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Post # 216 linked is not a wall of text it is our discussion provided in context that addresses some of your earlier accusations and claims. I suggest you follow our conversation in the linked post it is quite revealing showing exactly what has been said and what has not been said. If you want to read it or not, well that is up to you. I only posted it there to be helpful while challenging you on some of your earlier claims that of course you do not need to respond to if you do not want to.

Take Care

LoveGodsWord said:

Please see post # 161 linked. Arguments in silence are not an argument to break God's law especially when the scriptures teach that God commands us elsewhere to worship him on the Sabbath (Ezekiel 46:1-3 and Isaiah 66:22-23). As posted earlier we cleared this subject up in regards to worshiping God on the Sabbath, some time ago by looking at the scriptures and defining what it means to worship God from the scriptures in post # 70 linked and post # 81 linked.

We worship God by believing and following what Gods Word says and God tells us to worship him on the Sabbath in Ezekiel 46:1-3 and Isaiah 66:22-23. We should not base our arguments on things that a silent in the scriptures. What we do know is that Gods' people kept the Sabbath and God tells us that by keeping the Sabbath we worship him. That is all we need to know isn't it?

How does what you are suggesting from something not recorded in one section of the bible but directly recorded in other sections of the bible effect the scriptures that are recorded in regards to God telling us to worship Him on the Sabbath? - It doesn't. I am not sure why you cannot see this so we will agree to disagree unless you want to discuss my posts and questions to which you agreed to earlier.

Take Care.

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You are avoiding the issue I’m bringing up.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Please see post # 161 linked. Arguments in silence are not an argument to break God's law especially when the scriptures teach that God commands us elsewhere to worship him on the Sabbath (Ezekiel 46:1-3 and Isaiah 66:22-23). As posted earlier we cleared this subject up in regards to worshiping God on the Sabbath, some time ago by looking at the scriptures and defining what it means to worship God from the scriptures in post # 70 linked and post # 81 linked.

We worship God by believing and following what Gods Word says and God tells us to worship him on the Sabbath in Ezekiel 46:1-3 and Isaiah 66:22-23. We should not base our arguments on things that a silent in the scriptures. What we do know is that Gods' people kept the Sabbath and God tells us that by keeping the Sabbath we worship him. That is all we need to know isn't it?

How does what you are suggesting from something not recorded in one section of the bible but directly recorded in other sections of the bible effect the scriptures that are recorded in regards to God telling us to worship Him on the Sabbath? - It doesn't. I am not sure why you cannot see this so we will agree to disagree unless you want to discuss my posts and questions to which you agreed to earlier.

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Your response here...

Hammster said:

You are avoiding the issue I’m bringing up.

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I did not avoid it at all. I addressed it with a detailed scripture response. Your seeking to make an argument in silence in regards to worship on the Sabbath not being mentioned during the Exodus. I simply pointed out in the linked post you refuse to discuss that your making an argument in silence that is already addressed with scripture in other sections of the bible. The post you are quoting from provided here already explains this and asks you the question how does your argument in silence in the Exodus as to the subject of worship on the Sabbath not being recorded in one section of the bible but directly recorded in other sections of the bible effect the scriptures that are recorded in regards to God telling us to worship Him on the Sabbath and the Sabbath being a day of worship? - It doesn't. God says (not me) the Sabbath is a day of worship end of story. If God says that the Sabbath is a day of worship then the Sabbath is a day of worship is it not?

Take Care.

HARK! said:

So you do honor YHWH's New Moon?

(CLV) Col 2:16
Let no one, then, be judging you in food or in drink or in the particulars of a festival, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,

(CLV) Col 2:17
which are a shadow of those things which are impending—yet the body is the Christ's.

Sorry my friend, I tend to agree with Paul on this one. The Sabbath is a shadow. However, the Sabbath is not a law. It is a Moed. Keeping YHWH's Moedim are however eternal laws.

You might disagree with what YHWH says; but he gives us the free will to believe as we wish.

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Then you do not understand what Paul is talking about in Colossians 2:16. Do you want to discuss it in detail showing why I say this, and if we do will it be a two-way discussion?

HARK! said:

Yes, that's the wall of text that I was speaking of. I'm not really interested in endless digression and misdirection. I was just looking for a simple answer to a simple question. Thanks anyway.

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Well that is not true. Post # 216 linked is our discussion which is there for all to see

Take Care

HARK! said:

I understand it quite well. I would enjoy speaking with you in depth on this subject here: Colossians 2:16

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Well from what you posted earlier in post # 226, I do not agree, but allow me to start showing why from the scriptures. However, If I ask you questions this time, I hope you can respect our discussion and hope you can answer my questions to you if you would like a two-way discussion.

COLOSSIANS 2:16-17

According to the scriptures the context of Colossians 2:16-17 is to the meat and the drink offering, and the new moons and the sabbaths in the annual Feast days and not judging others in this regard which are shadows of things to come but but the body is of Christ. Paul is referring to a number of scriptures in the old testament (e.g. Ezekiel 45:17). There were many different kinds of sabbaths (including rest days from work - holy convocations; plural application) in the old covenant especially connected directly to the annual Feast days. These annual ceremonial sabbaths connected directly to the annual Feast days could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. On the other hand Gods' 4th commandment is only linked to the "seventh day of the week as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth.

These annual Feast sabbaths (including holy convocations where no work was allowed) included; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36). Colossians 2:16-17 is in reference to the meat and drink offerings the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) that were connected to these Feasts that are shadows of things to come. Not Gods' 10 commandments or Gods 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). Otherwise Paul would not say elsewhere, "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath" (Hebrews 4:9).

Note: the reason I have included the days of holy convocation here from Leviticus 23 is because the Greek word σάββατον sábbaton G4521 used in Colossians 2:16 besides referring directly to the "seventh day Sabbath" also means "any day of weekly repose or rest from secular work" or a week with plural application to the above.

We can go in to a detailed scripture exegesis of Colossians 2:11-17 if you like linking old and new testament scriptures, to show what Paul is talking about from the old testament scriptures, but as an introduction here I will be arguing that it is impossible for Gods' 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath to be a shadow of anything as it points backwards to the finished work of creation, not forwards to things to come. When the Sabbath was made for mankind in Genesis 2:1-3 there was no sin, no plan of salvation because there was no sin and no Moses and no Mosaic shadow laws of things to come which was not given until after mankind had sinned according to the scriptures.

Colossians 2:16 is talking about the meat and drink offerings and the new moons and the sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days being a shadow of things to come. It is not talking about God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) being a shadow of anything.

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Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible

“... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...” - Albert Barnes, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

Adam Clarke, states on the same passage:

There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...” - Adam Clarke, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary states:
“... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10). ...” - Jamieson, Fausset and Brown, Colossians 2:16 Commentary. E-Sword App.

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QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER

The questions I would ask you in this discussion to help determine if Gods' 4th commandment is a "shadow law" are simply these. If you can honestly answer these questions you will see that it is impossible for God's creation Sabbath of the 4th commandment to be a shadow law of anything....

I am sure we both agree that the "shadow laws" for remission of sins and the Mosaic "shadow laws" of the old covenant (e.g. The Levitical Priesthood, the Sanctuary laws, the laws of animal sacrifices and sin offerings; the annual Feast days, circumcision etc) were given as prophetic "shadow laws" as a part of God's plan of salvation for mankind from the wages of sin (death) pointing to the coming Messiah as the Savior of the world and Gods' true sacrifice for the sins of the world once and for all *John 1:29; 36; Hebrews 10:10 after mankind fell into temptation and sin. With this in mind let me sincerely ask you these questions

Q1. The Sabbath was made before the fall of mankind when mankind was sinless and in perfect harmony with God. How can God's Sabbath then be a "shadow law" when there was no sin and all the
"shadow laws" were created because of sin pointing to Jesus and Gods 'plan of salvation for mankind from sin. If the Sabbath was created before sin and not after the fall when all the "shadow laws" were created how can Gods' Sabbath be a shadow of anything?

Q2. The Sabbath was written on stone by the finger of God as Gods' 4th commandment during the Exodus shown in *Exodus 20:8-11, which reads [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. According to God's 4th commandment the Sabbath points BACKWARDS, not FORWARDS to things come, telling us to "Remember" the Sabbath as a memorial pointing backwards to when the Sabbath was made in Genesis 2:1-3. How then can the Sabbath of Gods' 4th commandment be a "shadow law" of things to come when it does not point forward to thing to come but BACKWARDS as a memorial to the FINISHED work of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth?

I have some more questions proving it is impossible for Gods' 4th commandment to be a "shadow law" but I think we will stop here for now and not over do it.

Take Care.

Hammster said:

Fortunately, God answers that.


Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
— Exodus 20:9-11

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Six days we shall do all our work but the seventh Day is the Sabbath of our God and In it we shall not do any of our work.
What is our work?

HIM said:

Six days we shall do all our work but the seventh Day is the Sabbath of our God and In it we shall not do any of our work.
What is our work?

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I give up.

Philosophy is what deceit the devil gives us, (men speaking for him on the forum)


We are complete in Christ, and the circumcision we receive is not after men, it is by God only.


So all feasts, new moons, holy days, sabbaths, any kind of sabbaths, are all incompleteness of men.


Being the fulness of the Godhead bodily, everything that was in the law for Israel is shadow, all parts of it, we have a new High Priest, and follow a very different way, of preaching the cross which is foolishness to the wise, as their wisdom of this world, and of men, is foolishness to God...






Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Hammster said:

I give up.

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Hebrews 12:12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;
13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

1 Corinthians 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

HIM said:

What is our work?

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John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

prophecy_uk said:

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

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Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe into Him whom that One sent.
(Joh 6:29 LITV)

HIM said: ↑
What does it mean to keep the day holy?

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Hammster said:

Fortunately, God answers that.


Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
— Exodus 20:9-11

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HIM said: ↑
Six days we shall do all our work but the seventh Day is the Sabbath of our God and In it we shall not do any of our work.
What is our work?

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Hammster said:

I give up.

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Me too my friend. If we are honoring God, not doing our own ways, our own pleasures, nor speaking our own words. What are we doing?
How do we honor God?
Worship Him?


Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: