How secular family values stack up

[RedPonyDriver]

?

Know the mind of the Sovereign of the Universe? What ARE you doing there, lol?

I read my bible, simple.

That was great...haven't seen such a bunch of non-viable twist and turns designed to draw the conclusion one needs in order to justify their nonsense all week.

If you don't believe people are sent to Hell, then you don't believe in the word of God, or you use a completely different Bible than I. Amazes me how people can read the book, clearly make what they want out of it in order to suit what they want. Just because Hell makes you mad, doesn't make it go away, in spite of you thinking it somehow did.

Somehow you missed everything I said...not that I'm particularly surprised here...

YOU presume to know who God will and won't send to hell. YOU claim you know what God thinks. You presume a whole lot. Isn't it in Job where it is written that God's ways are not our ways and God's ways are far above our ways?

So...therefore, you cannot presume to know the mind of God. If you claim to know the mind of God, the only mind you CAN know is your own so you are putting yourself out there as your own god.

 

[Kenny'sID]

YOU presume to know who God will and won't send to hell. YOU claim you know what God thinks. You presume a whole lot. Isn't it in Job where it is written that God's ways are not our ways and God's ways are far above our ways?

No, your making that up. Show me where I presumed who he will and who he won't send to hell? I know what the Bible says, I know who God says he'll send to hell and who he won't. If you wish to blame Biblical fact on me, have at it. Or are you just angry because I'm bringing it up, and you'd prefer to remain in denial?

And where did I claim to know what god thinks? Again, I read the bible, that tells us some of what he thinks, does it not?

What your doing is a kin to the comebacks we often get when cold truths from the Bible are mentioned. and yours is a common one, like "are you judging me!?" or shooting the messenger, even when the message is as old as the hills/nothing new.

That said, let's step back for a moment. Do you believe the biblical punishment exists? What ever that may be....everlasting punishment, inhalation that lasts forever or whatever. For the sake of getting strait to an answer, lets just call it the Biblical very bad thing that happens to non believers...people that don't accept Christ and do what Christ/God asks of us, as in take the narrow path over the wide one.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

And here I was thinking all non-religous people were bad.

Seriously though, there are plenty of people that don't believe in God that are much better than some who either do or just claim they do, and it's too bad too. Although being good will be rewarding while in this age, it just seems like such a waste all good people don't end up in heaven.

That's where it all started. How do you know that not all good people will end up in heaven (if you believe that sort of thing).

inhalation that lasts forever or whatever.

So people will be breathing in forever?

For the sake of getting strait to an answer, lets just call it the Biblical very bad thing that happens to non believers...people that don't accept Christ and do what Christ/God asks of us, as in take the narrow path over the wide one.

One more time...how do you know? You made the original statement as quoted above. It's up to you to defend it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

That's where it all started. How do you know that not all good people will end up in heaven (if you believe that sort of thing).

Because not all good people have accepted Christ as their Savior. I'm at a loss as to why you would ask such a thing...Have you read the Bible?

So people will be breathing in forever?

Annihilation. Inhalation was complements of Spell Wrecker.

One more time...how do you know? You made the original statement as quoted above. It's up to you to defend it.

No need to ask twice....why the beyond obvious evasion of the question?

One more time:

Let's step back for a moment. Do you believe the biblical punishment exists? What ever that may be....everlasting punishment, inhalation that lasts forever or whatever. For the sake of getting strait to an answer, lets just call it the Biblical very bad thing that happens to non believers...people that don't accept Christ and do what Christ/God asks of us, as in take the narrow path over the wide one.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Let's step back for a moment. Do you believe the biblical punishment exists? What ever that may be....everlasting punishment, inhalation that lasts forever or whatever. For the sake of getting strait to an answer, lets just call it the Biblical very bad thing that happens to non believers...people that don't accept Christ and do what Christ/God asks of us, as in take the narrow path over the wide one.

I don't quite buy any sort of life after death in any form. I'm of the opinion that all that goes on after you die are the memories of you and whatever legacy you leave. I don't do what I do in hopes of some reward. I do it because that is what my conscience dictates that I must do. But...religion is way too often sold on the whole "going to heaven" drivel.

And, if there is an afterlife, each will be judged according to their individual merits. IF that is true, then many bible-thumpers won't make it. See Matthew 25:31-46 and tell me if "salvation" is required to merit some sort of eternal reward.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I don't quite buy any sort of life after death in any form. I'm of the opinion that all that goes on after you die are the memories of you and whatever legacy you leave. I don't do what I do in hopes of some reward. I do it because that is what my conscience dictates that I must do. But...religion is way too often sold on the whole "going to heaven" drivel.

And, if there is an afterlife, each will be judged according to their individual merits. IF that is true, then many bible-thumpers won't make it. See Matthew 25:31-46 and tell me if "salvation" is required to merit some sort of eternal reward.

OK, glad I asked...you're in a completely different world than me, I go by the Bible, I thought most Christians did.

Curious, do you just make up what you believe or do you have some basis for it? Bible? other literature? opinion only?

Also, and I'm not saying you are or aren't but I'm sure you can understand my confusion...do you consider yourself Christian?

 

[RedPonyDriver]

OK, glad I asked...you're in a completely different world than me, I go by the Bible, I thought most Christians did.

Curious, do you just make up what you believe or do you have some basis for it? Bible? other literature? opinion only?

Also, and I'm not saying you are or aren't but I'm sure you can understand my confusion...do you consider yourself Christian?

What is this, an interrogation? I'm not a bible-thumping fundamentalist...you know there ARE different schools of thought within Christianity. Go read Matthew 25:31-46, Micah 6:8 and James 1:27. Do YOUR beliefs line up with that? Do you LIVE that out?

Oh, and asking for "proof" that one is the faith tradition one has on one's avatar is against TOS.

 

[Kenny'sID]

What is this, an interrogation? I'm not a bible-thumping fundamentalist...you know there ARE different schools of thought within Christianity. Go read Matthew 25:31-46, Micah 6:8 and James 1:27. Do YOUR beliefs line up with that? Do you LIVE that out?

Oh, and asking for "proof" that one is the faith tradition one has on one's avatar is against TOS.

So when you first replied to me, you expected me to listen only? Not realistic. No need to be so touchy, the questions were all asked in sincerity/out of sheer curiosity.

You sound like a very angry person so I'll leave you alone with that and I suggest you not initiate conversation with me anymore since we know how it will end.

 

[Verv]

If God existed, he would not necessarily be obligated to give eternal life to anyone. It's a gift - not a duty or obligation. But to most of those whom I have known who believe in "heaven" and "hell," it's a global dichotomy for every single human being - one either lives forever with God, or he is tortured forever. They may try to justify the torment with philosophy, presuming without and against Scripture that God has nothing to do with it, but those assertions make less sense with Scripture than the belief of hell itself.

Refusing to give a gift is not evil. "Good people" can simply grow old, have children, and die. But torturing "good people" for all eternity, without end or hope, for not arbitrarily guessing that they're supposed to say the right magic words and get dunked in the right magic water, however, is atrocious.

(I) There is the concept that the soul is destroyed in hell and does not exist eternally after the initial sentencing to hell. There is acutally a very surprising amount of scripture that supports the abolitionist position -- it is perhaps the only thing I have found in the Bible that is an unconventional belief that has a solid basis in scripture.

One can still argue against it. That is why this post has a (II)...

(II) All things penetrate one another. All actions and all people are linked. if we are to do evil casually and regularly, it is hard to dismiss how far the consequences can go out from ourselves. In a sense, we can be guilty of leading the little one's astray through our confident atheism and rejection of God (Matthew 18:6).

Living in a highly secularized society it is easy for us to forget the importance of stringent & strict faith, and the primacy of God's word, even as Christians, let alone as areligious persons. Thus, it seems 'arbitrary' that one person is "Good with God" and another is "Good without God" because it is a normalized conception within the agreed upon secular framework.

But not so fast... THis aspect of thought has to be thrown out the window, and we need to consider this more broadly.

 

[Tinker Grey]

(I) There is the concept that the soul is destroyed in hell and does not exist eternally after the initial sentencing to hell. There is acutally a very surprising amount of scripture that supports the abolitionist position -- it is perhaps the only thing I have found in the Bible that is an unconventional belief that has a solid basis in scripture.

I believe it is called annihilationism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

I agree that it is supportable.

 

[Dave-W]

There is the concept that the soul is destroyed in hell and does not exist eternally after the initial sentencing to hell. There is actually a very surprising amount of scripture that supports the abolitionist position

Spell Wrecker again? I think the word you wanted was "annihilationist."

 

[Dave-W]

I believe it is called annihilationism:
I agree that it is supportable.

I do not.

 

[Rebecca12]

I just don't get it. The idea that the Most Important Thing of All is to accept Jesus as God because he died for us. Why is that the most important thing? It makes no sense to me at all. Everything else in the end is irrelevant. Irrelevant if you were a good Hindu, good Muslim, good Buddhist, good humanist. Irrelevant if you did your best. Irrelevant your suffering. Irrelevant your sincerity. Irrelevant that God simply is not apparent to some. Irrelevant that God and religion are so opaque that there are untold varieties of belief.


Me, I prefer secular family values.

"Knock and it will be opened unto you" seems to specify anyone.

If you don't see a door, much less a house, there is nothing to knock on.