How secular are you?

[Godlovesmetwo]

I was told "just be yourself" several times.
But what does that mean? Aren't we as Christians aiming to be Christ-centred all the time?
So we need to be trying to think like Christ? What would Christ do in this situation?

Sometimes I think we just need to have a break and be "our secular selves". Religion and Catholicism can actually depress me sometimes. Thinking about it. Yet on the other hand, it has helped me enormously.

 

[Genersis]

Hmm, I've never really considered that "just be[ing] yourself" could be in conflict with trying to be a good(or perhaps more accurately, "better") Christian.

Though I guess it's kind of obvious when you think about it more.
I mean, we are all supposed to be drawn to sin to different extents and are all sinners by most mainstream interpretations of Christianity. So presumably we are also all drawn to being less than Christlike in behaviour.

I guess the goal is to be yourself, but try and resist your sinful aspects and incorporate Christlike behaviour to the best of your abilities?
...yeah, I'm going with that.

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I guess the goal is to be yourself, but try and resist your sinful aspects and incorporate Chrhaviour to the best of your abilities?
...yeah, I'm going with that.

That's good thanks.

 

[Fantine]

I am spiritual, drawing on a combination of humanistic and Catholic traditions which are only occasionally in conflict.

When they are in conflict I follow my heart.

 

[Paidiske]

I think being yourself, in a Christian context, means discovering and living to the full the self that you are created, gifted, and called by God to be.

Sometimes that is not the self that you have been, and that's where repentance comes in. But sin isn't "being yourself," it's the creation of a false self which in some ways masks the deeper authentic self, which is a gift from God.

I think the problem comes in when people try to be Christian, or specifically Catholic, in a way which is not the recovery of their authentic, God-given selves, but instead the creation of a new false self, one formed on the pattern of poor teaching or misunderstanding of what it means to be Christian. This is much, much more common than I think most people realise (and why I tend to get annoyed by expressions of piety which are shallow or playing on people's emotions; I think they can feed into this problem in a very unhealthy way).

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I think the problem comes in when people try to be Christian, or specifically Catholic, in a way which is not the recovery of their authentic, God-given selves, but instead the creation of a new false self, one formed on the pattern of poor teaching or misunderstanding of what it means to be Christian. This is much, much more common than I think most people realise (and why I tend to get annoyed by expressions of piety which are shallow or playing on people's emotions; I think they can feed into this problem in a very unhealthy way).

This a really good answer Paidiske, in my opinion. Since I was away I have been contemplating this very thing. CF is good but perhaps sometimes I think we are just creating a new "false self" here. A pious version. For myself, I am not naturally pious or holy. It could be my Australian-ness or family culture. We just don't do "serious and reverent" very well. Could come from Brit. culture too. I always have a Monty Python version , running simultaneously in my head.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Also my family culture has a "BS antenna" on. No one gets away with superficiality. Now that could be a negative thing as I am afraid to look pious or even confident in front of my family. You know, one reason I didn't become a priest is I would be too nervous , to give a sermon in front of my family. I think they would laugh at me in my robes too, holding up a host for instance. But of course there other reasons I didn't become a priest too.

 

[Paidiske]

So maybe you have the God-given gift to be a maverick. We need those people! Those who can stand outside a system and see where it doesn't work, who can offer healthy criticism and insight. It's something which has even a prophetic edge.

But, like all gifts, it probably needs some cultivating, and it's hard to get "the system" to nurture a gift like that. I'd remember that the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets, and look for a mature maverick or two who can be mentors or companions in the life of faith, or at least exemplars whose writings can be food for thought.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

to be a maverick. We need those people! Those who can stand outside a system and see where it doesn't work,

"maverick", that is a good word. Perhaps that describes several of us on TLT. Of course some will label us as "heretic" or "dissenter". Guys like Richard Rohr who challenge the system. I'm not up to their level of training or theological knowledge. Not sure I aspire to an "intellectual maverick", anyway.
I think some of our sins are part of our DNA. All we can do is try to be aware of them and minimise if possible. To try to eliminate all our sins is too idealistic.

 

[tadoflamb]

I knew coming into the Church, being a bit different type of individual, that Catholicism was going to be very interesting. In a way, I wonder if the Catholic Church is the one religious institution that could absorb me. I'm sure if I wasn't Catholic, I'd be hopping from one denomination to another, arguing with whoever I found there.

The Church allows me to be myself and I haven't found any pressure to become a cookie-cutter Catholic. At my parish, at least, we're all allowed to grow at our own pace.

But am I secular? Compared to what? I find as I get older the world starts looking stranger, and I find my self more and more removed from popular culture. As I think about, the only three things that interest me anymore are art, birds and Catholicism. Blessedly, my life is immersed in all three of those things and none of them are incompatible with each other.

I guess this is something I don't worry about too much. One big internal change I experienced once I converted is that I lost this constant nagging feeling in my heart that something was wrong. Now that I'm Catholic, that's all gone away. Maybe you could call it 'confidence in Christ' or as Fr. Fuller tells me, "you're a saved person, how is that going to change your life".

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

The Church allows me to be myself and I haven't found any pressure to become a cookie-cutter Catholic. At my parish, at least, we're all allowed to grow at our own pace

I think you are so right. Catholicism encourages diversity in my opinion.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

But I think that for each of us there is a personal call from God, that makes each journey unique and special. He allows us to be ourselves even if we remain stubbornly secular. Not all of us have to be bible literate, not all of us have to attend Mass every Sunday, not all of us pray the Rosary, or know Summa Theologica inside out or have to live like a monk or even have to stay married to the same person all our lives. Our sins vary but I guess mine will remain numerous!

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

But I think that for each of us there is a personal call from God

yeah I know. Only weirdos quote their own posts. Just I noticed I've only been back 3 days and I've started preaching already.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

But am I secular? Compared to what?

No you are absolutely trad. Just wish they'd allow you to become a priest and say Mass. Quarterback Colin needs to come back and give you some respite. Otherwise wishy-washy seculars like myself will drag this mob away from a Catholic God!
Hope I didn't insult anyone there. I aim to satirise myself above all.

 

[Fantine]

So maybe you have the God-given gift to be a maverick. We need those people! Those who can stand outside a system and see where it doesn't work, who can offer healthy criticism and insight. It's something which has even a prophetic edge.

But, like all gifts, it probably needs some cultivating, and it's hard to get "the system" to nurture a gift like that. I'd remember that the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets, and look for a mature maverick or two who can be mentors or companions in the life of faith, or at least exemplars whose writings can be food for thought.

Thanks for your gentle affirmation of everyone in this forum--we all have a little bit of the maverick in us.