How Quickly Could Venus Be Terraformed?

[Radrook]

In that case they have doubtless evaluated how they are going to get JCB diggers up there to help in the construction of plant needed to strip oxygen off of the carbon dioxide molecules, and also the means to be used in keeping their engines running in an oxygen free environment until those plants are constructed.

The effort at terraforming Venus doesn't require JCB diggers. The start of Terraforming of Venus via reduction of temperature can be started via the following method.

Reflective balloons floating in the upper atmosphere could create shade. The number and/or size of the balloons would necessarily be great. Geoffrey A. Landis has suggested[12] that if enough floating cities were built, they could form a solar shield around the planet, and could simultaneously be used to process the atmosphere into a more desirable form, thus combining the solar shield theory and the atmospheric processing theory with a scalable technology that would immediately provide living space in the Venusian atmosphere.
Terraforming of Venus - Wikipedia

A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

 

[lesliedellow]

The effort at terraforming Venus doesn't require JCB diggers. The start of Terraforming of Venus via reduction of temperature can be started via the following method.



A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

You are dodging the question. If people are not going to be living an an environment infinitely more hostile than Earth during the Stone Age, how are you going to be getting all that heavy plant up there? What will you be using for building materials?

 

[Speedwell]

You are dodging the question. If people are not going to be living an an environment infinitely more hostile than Earth during the Stone Age, how are you going to be getting all that heavy plant up there? What will you be using for building materials?

Mine the asteroids.

 

[Radrook]

I've read it, but they also counteracted their own arguments that it would be nigh impossible and even unreliable.

What the wiki article didn't mention but I realized would happen is that multiple large impacts would transfer a lot of kinetic energy which would turn into heat in the planet's interior. Such event did happen in Mars and on Earth millions of years ago and resulted to intense geological activity like volcanism and tectonic shifting which would ironically liberate more CO2 and sulfates from the planet's interior!

Not to mention, render the surface completely inaccessible and extremely dangerous even to robots designed to resist Venus' conditions at the surface for thousands of years and send you back to square one.



I would be able to cover the cooling and energy solutions. I could also partly give some ideas on how to fully automate the process and provide the strategy on how the robots will be able to repair and reproduce themselves, collect/mine resources from the immediate environment and expand the facilities until they cover the entire planet.

We are practically sending fully automated factory/workshops to Venus. In the same way we humans "terraformed" Earth for better or for worse. These robots can do it a lot faster than we ever did using advanced technology to begin with and perfect cooperation we could never even imagine to achieve!

The whole process won't require Artificial Intelligence. Non polymorphic software would do since we don't want a fleet of confused robots from Venus to stage a full scale invasion of Earth!

The pressure problem is actually easy at least in modern perspective. Protected interior facilities would utilize purified gas with the same ambient pressure as the outside would negate the need for heavy pressurized chambers. The CO2 atmosphere of Venus can be used, after all, it will be an all-robot workforce. However, it must be cooled, filtered, and removed of corrosive elements before being pumped into the facility or to the robots (for protection of electronic parts).

True! There are many problems created by that impact method such as having the atmosphere simply fall back on Venus or be hurled into an orbit about the Sun where Venus could cunningly scoop it up again. Also the geologic turbulence generated would be damaging as the excerpt below mentions.

Venus has sufficiently high escape velocity to make blasting it away with asteroid impacts impractical. Pollack and Sagan calculated in 1994[18] that an impactor of 700 km diameter striking Venus at greater than 20 km/s, would eject all the atmosphere above the horizon as seen from the point of impact, but because this is less than a thousandth of the total atmosphere and there would be diminishing returns as the atmosphere's density decreases, a very great number of such giant impactors would be required.

Landis calculated[3] that to lower the pressure from 92 bar to 1 bar would require a minimum of 2,000 impacts, even if the efficiency of atmosphere removal was perfect. Smaller objects would not work, either, because more would be required.

The violence of the bombardment could well result in significant outgassing that would replace removed atmosphere. Most of the ejected atmosphere would go into solar orbit near Venus, and, without further intervention, could be captured by Venus's gravitational field and become part of the atmosphere once again.Terraforming of Venus - Wikipedia

 

[Radrook]

You are dodging the question. If people are not going to be living an an environment infinitely more hostile than Earth during the Stone Age, how are you going to be getting all that heavy plant up there? What will you be using for building materials?

The colonies would not be initially living in an environment infinitely more hostile than Earth's during the stone age because they would be floating above the clouds at an elevation where the atmospheric conditions are Earthlike. From there they could terraforming Venus at leisure and once it is sufficiently transformed then transfer down to the surface. Since Venus, at 25 million miles, is far closer to Earth than Mars getting there doesn't take as long. Also, you are imagining building material has to be heavy. There are inflatable habitats that can be used.

Here’s a list of Mars Oppositions from 2007-2020 (source)

• Dec. 24, 2007 – 88.2 million km (54.8 million miles)
• Jan. 29, 2010 – 99.3 million km (61.7 million miles)
• Mar. 03, 2012 – 100.7 million km (62.6 million miles)
• Apr. 08, 2014 – 92.4 million km (57.4 million miles)
• May. 22, 2016 – 75.3 million km (46.8 million miles)
• Jul. 27. 2018 – 57.6 million km (35.8 million miles)
• Oct. 13, 2020 – 62.1 million km (38.6 million miles)
• Credit: Bob King

How Far is Mars from Earth? - Universe Today

Venus takes 224.7 Earth days to travel around the sun. It makes its closest approach to Earth about once every 584 days, when the planets catch up to one another. On average, it is 25 million miles (40 million km) away at this point, though it can reach as close as 24 million miles (38 million km).

How far is Venus from the sun?
All of the planets orbit the sun in an ellipse, rather than a circle, but Venus has the most circular orbit of the planets. On average, the distance to Venus from the sun is 67 million miles (108 million km). At its closest (perihelion), it is only 66.7 million miles away (107 million km); at its farthest (aphelion), only 67.7 million miles (108.9 million km) separate the two.

How Far Away is Venus?
— Nola Taylor Redd, SPACE.com Contributor

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

But why go through the trouble of terraforming one of the most inhospitable planets, a literal death world (to use science-fiction parlance), when we go to a much more hospitable planet and terraform that?

 

[AV1611VET]

What would be the quickest way to transform Venus into an Earthlike habitat if indeed we ever decide to try it?

Send all the evolution scientists over there.

In a couple of generations, their "puddle of water" should fit the pothole.

Then it's a simple matter of convincing their grandchildren they can do what God did to the earth after the Flood and voila: they may not be able to completely terraform Venus, but they'll convince everyone else they did.

And they'll all live happily ever after.

 

[lesliedellow]

The colonies would not be initially living in an environment infinitely more hostile than Earth's during the stone age because they would be floating above the clouds at an elevation where the atmospheric conditions are Earthlike. From there they could terraforming Venus at leisure and once it is sufficiently transformed then transfer down to the surface. Since Venus, at 25 million miles, is far closer to Earth than Mars getting there doesn't take as long. Also, you are imagining building material has to be heavy. There are inflatable habitats that can be used.

I see. So the next time somebody want to build a power station or housing estate on Earth, they can do it from five miles up.

Oh to be a true believer.

 

[SkyWriting]

Since Venus is the only planet in our solar system that provides adequate gravity it's surface would be ideal for permanent colonization since such things as bone loss and blindness due to microgravity effects would be avoided. However we have the atmospheric pressure which is 100 times greater than Earth's at sea level and the corrosive sulfuric acid laden clouds and temperatures extremes capable of melting lead problems that prevent it. What would be the quickest way to transform Venus into an Earthlike habitat if indeed we ever decide to try it?

Building habitats under our oceans would provide food, water, and possibly oxygen.
The discipline needed to not pollute would provide world-wide benefits.
Greenpeace would not approve of terraforming other planets, and somebody would end
up getting splashed with blood, or a shoe thrown at them.

 

[lesliedellow]

Building habitats under our oceans would provide food, water, and possibly oxygen.
The discipline needed to not pollute would provide world-wide benefits.
Greenpeace would not approve of terraforming other planets, and somebody would end
up getting splashed with blood, or a shoe thrown at them.

Building cities on the sea bed would be beset by enormous difficulties, but it is a whole lot more realistic than building them on Venus, and that's for sure.

 

[SkyWriting]

Building cities on the sea bed would be beset by enormous difficulties, but it is a whole lot more realistic than building them on Venus, and that's for sure.

But the solutions needed would benefit the rest of the earth.
And air and water are right at hand...unlike other planets.
And one random piece of debris is not going to evaporate the
life inside an underwater bubble.

 

[Radrook]

I see. So the next time somebody want to build a power station or housing estate on Earth, they can do it from five miles up.

Oh to be a true believer.

No, we cannot hover on Venus at five miles because we would be roasted. We have to get above the clouds at approx 30 miles up. There temperatures and atmospheric pressures are as well aw grravity are Earthlike. Terraforming from floating installations is called the atmosphere-based approach to terraforming Venus as opposed to the surface-based approach.

While the surface of Venus would destroy a human, hovering above its clouds at an altitude of around 50 kilometres (30 miles) is a set of conditions similar to Earth. Its atmospheric pressure is comparable, and gravity is only slightly lower -- which would allow longer-term stays, effectively eliminating the ailments that occur during long-term stays in zero G. Temperature is about 75 degrees Celsius, which is hotter than is strictly comfortable, but would still be manageable. Finally, the atmosphere at that altitude offers protection from solar radiation comparable to living in Canada.
NASA wants to build a floating city above the clouds of Venus

Solar shades could be deployed in order to help lower the the, temperature until Carbon Dioxide freezes out of the atmosphere and thus reduce atmospheric pressure to a near humanly tolerable level.

 

[lesliedellow]

No, we cannot hover on Venus at five miles because we would be roasted. We have to get above the clouds at approx 30 miles up. There temperatures and atmospheric pressures are as well aw grravity are Earthlike. Terraforming from floating installations is called the atmosphere-based approach to terraforming Venus as opposed to the surface-based approach.





Solar shades could be deployed in order to help lower the the, temperature until Carbon Dioxide freezes out of the atmosphere and thus reduce atmospheric pressure to a near humanly tolerable level.

Solar shades large enough to shield an entire planet eh? When these sci fi enthusiasts go in for civil engineering projects, they don't do it by half, do they?

 

[Radrook]

Solar shades large enough to shield an entire planet eh? When these sci fi enthusiasts go in for civil engineering projects, they don't do it by half, do they?

As I said before, these are not sci fi fanatics as you keep insisting. These are astronomers and other scientists who propose these solutions. So once again your disagreement is with them not me.


BTW
The thread is requesting opinions on the best and quickest way to terraform Venus if we were to attempt it.

 

[lesliedellow]

As I said before, these are not sci fi fanatics as you keep insisting. These are astronomers and other scientists who propose these solutions. So once again your disagreement is with them not me.

So you say. The one time it has been possible to checkup on what NASA was actually proposing, it was something much more modest, though still ambitious enough.

 

[Astrophile]

The atmosphere of Venus doesn't have adequate gravity. It's 92 times STRONGER than Earth gravity. Anything we send there would be crushed. That's not to mention the absolutely lethal amounts of radiation from being so close to the sun and the toxic nature of the planet's atmosphere.

The surface gravity on Venus is only 0.903 times the Earth's surface gravity. It is the atmospheric pressure that is 92 times the Earth's atmospheric pressure.

 

[timewerx]

But why go through the trouble of terraforming one of the most inhospitable planets, a literal death world (to use science-fiction parlance), when we go to a much more hospitable planet and terraform that?

The problem with a planet like Mars is the much less latent energy available. It would cause difficulties in large scale operations. It's very thin atmosphere means you'll have to get oxygen from somewhere. It's low gravity and absence of magnetic field means it might not keep its atmosphere for long and would imply difficult maintenance, post-terraformation.

The moons of Jupiter exists in a highly radioactive environment that is coming from Jupiter itself and is much farther away.

As for Venus, the CO2 atmosphere can be readily and easily converted to Oxygen through photosynthesis. The challenge is how to make the conversion at planet-changing rates.

 

[timewerx]

No, we cannot hover on Venus at five miles because we would be roasted. We have to get above the clouds at approx 30 miles up. There temperatures and atmospheric pressures are as well aw grravity are Earthlike. Terraforming from floating installations is called the atmosphere-based approach to terraforming Venus as opposed to the surface-based approach.

The problem with the floating installations is being subject to significant weight restrictions and exposure to sulfuric acid. It will certainly impose huge logistical challenge and cost implications.

The conversion process would also be less efficient because oxygen is lighter gas than CO2. You need to work at the surface below the CO2 atmosphere to make the process efficient.

If you have cooling problem solved efficiently, the best way is to work at the surface using a full robotic workforce that is able to self-maintain, self-reproduce and able to use raw materials available at the surface of Venus.

There maybe an abundance of Iron compounds easily gathered at the surface of Venus from recent studies by space probes and ground based radar. The robots could process those compounds. We only need to regularly send them electronic boards (which the robots cannot make on their own) and replacement parts for their manufacturing complexes. It's a tiny percent of the total weight of the entire package, likely to be less than 1 percent..... A massive cost saving for a planetary scale project.

Ironically, we could such thing on Earth....now and save ourselves from ourselves. But it would directly challenge the economy so I'm pretty sure, a lot of people would resist it.

 

[Radrook]

The problem with a planet like Mars is the much less latent energy available. It would cause difficulties in large scale operations. It's very thin atmosphere means you'll have to get oxygen from somewhere. It's low gravity and absence of magnetic field means it might not keep its atmosphere for long and would imply difficult maintenance, post-terraformation.

The moons of Jupiter exists in a highly radioactive environment that is coming from Jupiter itself and is much farther away.

As for Venus, the CO2 atmosphere can be readily and easily converted to Oxygen through photosynthesis. The challenge is how to make the conversion at planet-changing rates.

That is the problem with Mars, it has the same gravity as little Mercury and there is nothing that we can do about it. Venus has no gravity issues even if you are working in a lab above the clouds at 30 kilometers gravity is still Earthlike. Yes, I do understand that with the invention you mention work on the surface will be more productive.

But unfortunately, at this stage of the game all we can do is deploy floating platforms. So we will have to work with what we have in the meantime. True pity that such a planet should be in that condition. On the other hand, if the Good Lord made it that way there has to be a good reason. Maybe to demonstrate just how special our Earth truly is.

 

[timewerx]

But unfortunately, at this stage of the game all we can do is deploy floating platforms. So we will have to work with what we have in the meantime. True pity that such a planet should be in that condition. On the other hand, if the Good Lord made it that way there has to be a good reason. Maybe to demonstrate just how special our Earth truly is.

Sadly, such fate could also happen on Earth.

Water vapor is a potent greenhouse gas. Higher global temperatures means more water vapor in the atmosphere and higher greenhouse gas levels. It could reach a tipping point where an unstoppable runaway cycle can occur and the Earth would undergo a similar transformation to Venus.

Who knows, Venus could be in a better situation from a planet's perspective, at least no one is bothering her!

Yes, I do understand that with the invention you mention work on the surface will be more productive.

I only need more time on my projects and they will be completed a lot sooner.

I don't have time for it atm. Very busy on other things! Maybe in a year two I'll have more time for it and consider moving somewhere so the parts I needed would be more conveniently available.