How old is the world?

[PureWolf]

I wasn't sure which forum this belonged in so if this is the wrong one I apologize. As a Christian, I have always been told that the world is around 6,000 years old, however, often times we are told that the world is much older. We are told that the world is actually billions of years old! There's a huge gap between 6,000 and a billion. My cousin and I were talking about history earlier today and he said that black people populated the world 92,000 years before white people came about which made me wonder further. This one of the debates that I have a hard time sorting out so I came here to see what you guys had to say. It's a difficult position to be in. The more educated you become the more questions that start to develop in your head in regards to your faith.

 

[ebia]

I wasn't sure which forum this belonged in so if this is the wrong one I apologize. As a Christian, I have always been told that the world is around 6,000 years old, however, often times we are told that the world is much older. We are told that the world is actually billions of years old! There's a huge gap between 6,000 and a billion. My cousin and I were talking about history earlier today and he said that black people populated the world 92,000 years before white people came about which made me wonder further. This one of the debates that I have a hard time sorting out so I came here to see what you guys had to say. It's a difficult position to be in. The more educated you become the more questions that start to develop in your head in regards to your faith.

I don't think that's a question scripture is trying to give a factual answer to, so I'd turn to science if I want to know.

 

[MKJ]

Hmm, well, you know this idea about the world being only 6000 years old isn't actually something that is or has been taught throughout Christianity. It is very common among some Christian groups in the USA, and that has bled even into the fringes of some other groups that don't tend to teach that, but is much less common elsewhere.

I don't know that this is an easy place to address the specific scientific ideas on the topic. I think it is safe to say that they include a range of ideas and the views of the scientific community aren't static, but there is really little doubt that the universe is very old and human beings have been around a lot longer than 6000 years.

I'm not a researcher on those things, so I rely on what people who are say, I tend to agree with them, and I think that is entirely compatible with Christianity.

I think some of the reason the idea of the 6000 year old world has become such a hot topic has a lot to do with other kinds of unrest in American culture. People have little trust in public institutions and think that their values are under attack.

But the age of the universe has never been considered some kind test of religious orthodoxy, and there are a variety of opinions from early in the history of the Church.

 

[Yardstick]

About 4.5 billion years old. Determined largely from radiometric dating of meteorites.

 

[hedrick]

I wasn't sure which forum this belonged in so if this is the wrong one I apologize. As a Christian, I have always been told that the world is around 6,000 years old, however, often times we are told that the world is much older. We are told that the world is actually billions of years old! There's a huge gap between 6,000 and a billion. My cousin and I were talking about history earlier today and he said that black people populated the world 92,000 years before white people came about which made me wonder further. This one of the debates that I have a hard time sorting out so I came here to see what you guys had to say. It's a difficult position to be in. The more educated you become the more questions that start to develop in your head in regards to your faith.

First, “traditional” Christianity is Christianity that is historically informed. We include Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant. But our Protestants tend to look to the original 16th Cent Reformers, as well as classic recent theology and also the Church Fathers. That means that we are not the same as “conservative” Christians. Conservative as used in CF tends to mean Protestants who believe in a certain concept of Scripture often called “inerrancy.” Not all traditional Christians believe in that, though some do. Some of us think inerrancy is a relative recent idea, and that traditional Christians don’t have to accept it.

So the answer to your question is, it depends.

If you accept the answers of astronomers and other scientists, the universe and earth are billions of years old. Wikipedia actually has quite good articles on this.

The people who tell you 6000 years are what I called conservatives. They believe the Scripture was inspired by God in such a way that everything in it is true. Not just that Jesus came to save us, but every historical event that it talks about, and the specific 7 days of creation. Some conservatives are prepared to accept the “days” as a term that might mean a longer time. So some conservatives will agree that earth is as old as astronomers say it is. But the more literal understanding is that the earth was created in 7 days, and that the genealogies in the Old Testament go all the way back to creation. So using the lifetimes of people as listed in the Bible plus the genealogies we can compute how old the earth is. 6000 isn’t exact, but that’s approximately the age you get from the genealogies.

So the answer is either billions or 6000, depending upon what you think about the Bible. Many of us think that God spoke through the apostles and prophets who wrote the Bible, but that he didn’t intend them to teach science. So if you know how the earth was created you should ask astronomers. If you want to know why God created it and what our place is in God’s plan you should look at the Bible.

We can’t tell you what to believe there.

The idea that science and religion are at war with each other is largely a 19th Cent view. Atheists publicized it, to try and undermine Christianity. I accept the medieval “two books” view. That says that God gave us two ways to understand him, the Bible and nature. So it’s equally valid to learn things from the Bible and science. Since science speaks very clearly on the age of the earth, and the Bible doesn’t seem to intend to teach us the age of the earth, I accept the scientific view. (The Bible never talks about how old the earth is. To get 6000 you have to use the genealogies in a way that they may not have been intended to be used.)

However I have to say that my view does lead to issues when it comes to the history of the early Old Testament. If you start accepting evidence from science, archaeology, etc., you should be aware that most archaeologists (other than special “Christian” archaeologists) don’t think Noah or even the Exodus happened as described in the Old Testament. So the issue isn’t just creation. When archaeologists and the Bible say different things about the Exodus, which do we believe? I believe the archaeologists. They are looking at evidence that I think is part of the book of nature. I think the Old Testament was written late enough that they didn’t have historical records back to the time of Abraham or Moses. Thus what they gave us was traditional stories about those times. I still believe that God called Israel and made a covenant with it, but the events weren’t quite as described in the early books of the Old Testament.

While many “traditional” Christians will agree with me about how old the earth is, I suspect not as many will go along with the idea that the Exodus is largely legendary.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

I haven't counted the years, but I think traditionally that Scripture probably wasn't doubted until very recently in this regard. I don't think it's a very important issue, but I do believe any man ought to have the right to whichever belief he holds.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I wasn't sure which forum this belonged in so if this is the wrong one I apologize. As a Christian, I have always been told that the world is around 6,000 years old, however, often times we are told that the world is much older. We are told that the world is actually billions of years old! There's a huge gap between 6,000 and a billion. My cousin and I were talking about history earlier today and he said that black people populated the world 92,000 years before white people came about which made me wonder further. This one of the debates that I have a hard time sorting out so I came here to see what you guys had to say. It's a difficult position to be in. The more educated you become the more questions that start to develop in your head in regards to your faith.

The answer depends on what one means by "world". If the question is about geology then the age of the world's oldest rocks is around four thousand five hundred million years (4.5 billion). If the question is about forms of life that are mostly extinct today then the world's oldest extinct multicellular animals are around five hundred million years old. If the question is about human history then the world is about seventy thousand years old. If the question is about written human history then the world is about five thousand two hundred years old.

It may be that the story of creation in the scriptures (especially in Genesis chapters one and two) describe things as they may have been around six thousand years ago and that is very likely why some religious teachers teach that the world is six thousand years old. One ought to be open to the facts no matter where they come from so picking an age for the world has to take into account all the meanings of world and all the ages that the different meanings give.

 

[Rhamiel]

Hmm, well, you know this idea about the world being only 6000 years old isn't actually something that is or has been taught throughout Christianity. It is very common among some Christian groups in the USA, and that has bled even into the fringes of some other groups that don't tend to teach that, but is much less common elsewhere.

I don't know that this is an easy place to address the specific scientific ideas on the topic. I think it is safe to say that they include a range of ideas and the views of the scientific community aren't static, but there is really little doubt that the universe is very old and human beings have been around a lot longer than 6000 years.

I'm not a researcher on those things, so I rely on what people who are say, I tend to agree with them, and I think that is entirely compatible with Christianity.

I think some of the reason the idea of the 6000 year old world has become such a hot topic has a lot to do with other kinds of unrest in American culture. People have little trust in public institutions and think that their values are under attack.

But the age of the universe has never been considered some kind test of religious orthodoxy, and there are a variety of opinions from early in the history of the Church.

the Jewish Calendar says that we are in the 5,775th year of Creation
I do not know how many Jews hold to this belief anymore, but technically they still use A.M. as the era, standing for Anno Mundi or "year of the World"
now this date system is only about 1,000 years old
but it shows that this is not just an American belief, nor is it only a Christian belief

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

While strict Sola Scripturists tend to hold to a similar time line based on the Jewish AM system, not all would hold such belief as an article of faith; something that one must hold to attain salvation.

 

[Rhamiel]

I know a few Catholics who are Young Earth Creationists

I would dismiss their views as silly and unscientific, but they are much better Christians then I am, so I am inclined to give their views a bit more respect

 

[James Is Back]

Question. Does the belief of OEC and YEC hinge on Salvation?

 

[MKJ]

the Jewish Calendar says that we are in the 5,775th year of Creation
I do not know how many Jews hold to this belief anymore, but technically they still use A.M. as the era, standing for Anno Mundi or "year of the World"
now this date system is only about 1,000 years old
but it shows that this is not just an American belief, nor is it only a Christian belief

I think the context of that is quite different though. They weren't maintaining a gulf between Scriptural and natural revelation, which tends to be where modern creationists end up, even if they don't intend to. They just didn't have any reason to think the universe might be billions of years old.

I was really thinking in terms of Christians though - creationism isn't much on the radar among CHristians outside of teh US, and when it is it is often related to influence by American forms of Christianity.

 

[Rhamiel]

Question. Does the belief of OEC and YEC hinge on Salvation?

no
no
not even close

it is only recently that this was seen as a controversial issue
as a litmus test for orthodoxy

 

[MKJ]

Question. Does the belief of OEC and YEC hinge on Salvation?

Well, you know I think it is interesting that people who say it is a salvation issue are also usually from traditions that are pretty adamant about faith in Christ being all you need.

Now, it seems like how old I think the universe or anything else is doesn't seem to be the same as faith in Christ.

I think that what this shows is that what they really believe - perhaps unconsciously - is you have to have the right kind of attitude to Scripture to have real faith in Christ. Why - well I think they make too tight a relationship between Christ and Scripture - even think that they are the same thing. For all their talk about having a personal relationship with Christ, deep down they seem sure that understanding Scripture - understood the way they understand it - is the only way to have faith in Christ.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

Question. Does the belief of OEC and YEC hinge on Salvation?

I don't see how one's thought on the age of rocks could affect salvation.

 

[ebia]

I don't see how one's thought on the age of rocks could affect salvation.

You're obviously forgetting about the Faith-bubble-test one has to sit when one arrives at the pearly gates.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

You're obviously forgetting about the Faith-bubble-test one has to sit when one arrives at the pearly gates.

I'll just get the study guide from Barron's!

 

[MKJ]

You're obviously forgetting about the Faith-bubble-test one has to sit when one arrives at the pearly gates.

i always thought that bubble-tests were particular to Hell.

 

[Edial]

If we look strictly the way the Scriptures present it, the earth is very, very old.

One cannot deduce that creation was made in 6 24-hour days because the Scriptures do not say so.

Day in Gen 1 is "yom" in Hebrew.

Yom means a period of time.
In the Bible "yom" is used to indicate 24 hours, 6 months and other time period. Depending on context.

So what is the context of Genesis 1?
24-hour-day clock depends on it's relationship to the Sun.
And sun was not created until the 3rd day "yom".
So the context of Genesis 1 cannot be 24 hour days.

Genesis 1 says "there was an evening and there was a morning the 1st "yom"."
We do not know how much time passed between the evening and the morning.

Also, the Bible states that the hills in Habbakuk (below) are "age-old".
"Age-old" in Hebrew is "olam".
Olam means very old.

HAB 3:6 He stood, and shook the earth;
he looked, and made the nations tremble.
The ancient mountains crumbled
and the age-old hills collapsed.
His ways are eternal.

So what can we conclude about the age of the Earth?

It is very, very old.

And YEC vs OEC debates did more damage to Christianity than good.

... in my opinion.

In Christ,
Ed

 

[MKJ]

And YEC vs OEC debates did more damage to Christianity than good.

... in my opinion.

In Christ,
Ed

I think this is really, really true.

I don't know how many non-Christian people I have talked to who think that YEC is simply the Christian belief, and the only way to read the Bible. These are usually people who have little personal connection to any Church, which is increasingly common. But they see these debates and the kinds of things the YEC supporters say, which are mostly bizarre.

They don't even bother to learn anything more, because it is obvious to them they are not based on any kind of clear thinking and mostly they significantly misunderstand the science. It's like they are being told Christians have to believe the moon is made of cheese.

This has become the public image of Christianity.