How old is the earth?

FaithT said:

Ok I still don’t get it. Is the earth/universe 6000+ years old or billions?

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In a previous post I mentioned the theory of a growing number of Physicists that the Universe may not be what we may think it is. They are starting to think that it is a type of hologram that might not have taken billions of years to create. If it is a hologram then it follows the theory of a number of eminent Physicists that the Universe is finite, with a static length, breadth, and width, and has been created by design by an entity from a larger reality outside of our finite reality. This may mean that the Universe could have been created as a hologram in an instant of time. This debunks the Universe being maintained through gravity, because of the great distances involved making that impossible. But as a hologram it may have been created by light, and so the Universe may have appeared the instant that God said, "Let there by light".

Watchman1 said:

In a previous post I mentioned the theory of a growing number of Physicists that the Universe may not be what we may think it is. They are starting to think that it is a type of hologram that might not have taken billions of years to create. If it is a hologram then it follows the theory of a number of eminent Physicists that the Universe is finite, with a static length, breadth, and width, and has been created by design by an entity from a larger reality outside of our finite reality. This may mean that the Universe could have been created as a hologram in an instant of time. This debunks the Universe being maintained through gravity, because of the great distances involved making that impossible. But as a hologram it may have been created by light, and so the Universe may have appeared the instant that God said, "Let there by light".

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So the earth/universe may be young?

FaithT said:

So the earth/universe may be young?

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It could very well be. It may be that our sun is the only real star and the planets of our solar system the only real planets. The only way anyone can prove that the stars and galaxies of the universe are real is for them to actually go there, and that will be an impossibility given the great distances involved. Also, our holographic technology is in its infancy, we can't compare the holographic universe with our level of technology. If God actually did create the universe holographically, then it has to far more advanced than we can imagine. Another point is the question about life on other planets in the universe. If the universe is just a hologram that would certainly settle that question, and that we are truly alone in the whole universe.

I will discuss UFOs if something brings that up...

Watchman1 said:

It could very well be. It may be that our sun is the only real star and the planets of our solar system the only real planets. The only way anyone can prove that the stars and galaxies of the universe are real is for them to actually go there, and that will be an impossibility given the great distances involved. Also, our holographic technology is in its infancy, we can't compare the holographic universe with our level of technology. If God actually did create the universe holographically, then it has to far more advanced than we can imagine. Another point is the question about life on other planets in the universe. If the universe is just a hologram that would certainly settle that question, and that we are truly alone in the whole universe.

I will discuss UFOs if something brings that up...

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What’s a holographic universe? Sorry for all the dumb questions.

I’ll start a thred on UFOs

FaithT said:

What’s a holographic universe? Sorry for all the dumb questions.

I’ll start a thred on UFOs

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A holographic universe is one created by light. It is basically a two dimensional image viewed from our three dimensional perspective. See:

tonychanyt said:

To me, they are both true in terms of First-Order Logic. Both are real depending on your definition of time

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My definition of time is how humans perceive it on earth. So, based on that, is the universe 6000+ years or billions?

Watchman1 said:

You have your interpretation. My interpretation is just as valid. I persevere with this, not because it is vitally important, but that we shouldn't read into Scripture things that are not there.

By the way, did you know that there are many physicists who now believe that the universe is not maintained by gravity as is common teaching. This is because the vast distances between different star systems make gravitational influence impossible. The emerging theory is that the universe is a type of hologram designed and constructed from a larger reality outside of our universe. That our reality is a digital construct and made to appear that the universe and our world is older than what it actually is.

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The Bible is not a choose your own theology book. There is only one truth.

If God created a universe 6000 years ago, and created it to look 14 billion years old... then He did the perfect Job. He convinced us as of course He could. I don't think He would fault us for being convinced.

Halbhh said:

Let me say a couple of things that are very obvious, and then something subtle but profound...

First the obvious to us:

That idea of Godless evolution (working as if God isn't around) is the atheist view, as you know!

The Christian view (from John 1) is that God made all of Nature.... (if anyone reading this doesn't agree with that "all" part, please do tell us immediately, but I think many of you agree already)

And that fact (that God made 100% of all of Nature in all ways) instantly means that all natural events -- including so-called 'chance' (!!) -- is only His design working as He made it to do.

Yes? Do you agree?


To think any natural event isn't from God is atheism in a way...

After all, Who made Nature, again?....

Now, we also know that God additionally intervenes.

So, we have both:

A) God made Nature and Nature is only carrying out His will in every last natural event of every kind always....

and

B) God also intervenes at times as He chooses.

The clever deception that some (few) atheists have used to disturb very many Christians is to convince many Christians that if we see in nature some new kind of natural event....like when we first observed neutron stars or first saw fruit fly evolution....that such new information about nature operating is supposed to somehow imply God cannot exist!

It's a very clever trick of the 'enemy' I think. The deceiver, the 'father of lies.'

There is no difference between any particular natural event and God's creation of nature, because all natural events are His design doing as He chose it to do.

So, of course, many large churches like the Catholic Church and main branch of Lutheran, etc. and other very large churches that have had time to understand these things freely allow their members to believe in either Old and Young Earth creationism, either one.

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God pretty well goes over this in Job 38 and let's Job (and us know) that we don't understand dittley squat about His creative power, but
that what we do know (by seeing the intricacies in nature and the universe) are indeed proof of His existence and His creative power (invisible power-speaks things into existence)

Romans 1:20 (NIV)

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

(Yet, many make excuses about it - ie evolution (everything created itself from nothing) This is a lie from satan .... for every one of God's truths .... satan has a lie. Nowhere in His word does satan claim he has creative power. Satan knows all is Gods creation .... so the best lie satan can put forth is everything "evolved" from nothing .... thereby removing God's
existence. Satan knows God is the creator and desires rulership over all of what God created (making himself god)

I find it strange that many people are more than willing to believe that everything with all it's intricacies came from nothing millions/billions of random occurrences over millions/billions of Years (really?) .... yet say people of faith who believe in supernatural divine creation .... are foolish? What do we see? Life comes from life ..... biogenesis "suggests" otherwise. Their beliefs are ultimately based on a suggestions? LOL (rather foolish I'd say)

It takes more faith to believe the evolution theories (filled with assumptions) .... rather than divine creation IMO.

If planet earth was to completely disintegrate would there be time? Nope ... no mind .... no time. And again .... why we use earth time to theorize the age of anything (outside of planet earth itself) is utter nonsense (even science says planet earth was not "ground zero" for the onset of "evolution" ... without God (intelligent creation) the best that can be said is we don't know and make numerous assumptions (hardly "factual") about it ... that's why it is called theory and it will remain so.

Life comes from life .... that we do in fact know and has been clearly seen since the onset of humanity .... before the onset of humanity there was not earthly intelligence that could comprehend anything (including "time") ... non existent=no concept of time possible.

BNR32FAN said:

The Bible is not a choose your own theology book. There is only one truth.

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You will be interested to know that I discovered teaching by Dr Hugh Ross, an Astrophysicist and committed Christian at Grace Christian Church. I'm quite impressed with his adherence to God's inspired Word and that God started work on the redemption of mankind before He created the heavens and the earth. Also he teaches that God created time and space which means that He exists outside of time and space. All that makes a lot of sense to me.

What is significant however, is that he teaches that the six days of creation were time periods in the earth's history rather than strict 24 hour days. How he describes it also makes sense to me. As a fully qualified Astrophysicist with decades of research and experience he knows what he is talking about. The way he teaches it gives me food for thought and is changing my view of Genesis 1-3.

You must have been praying that I see the light!!
Here is the link to his video,
I can argue black and blue concerning a position that I hold, but when the Holy Spirit steps in and shows me a different way, it shows me that there is always something to learn!

FaithT said:

My definition of time is how humans perceive it on earth. So, based on that, is the universe 6000+ years or billions?

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After arguing for years that the six days of creation are 24 hour days, I have come across Dr. Hugh Ross' teaching about it. See my other post on the thread for the link to his teaching on Genesis. He makes a lot of sense, and it is enough to change my view.

Watchman1 said:

After arguing for years that the six days of creation are 24 hour days, I have come across Dr. Hugh Ross' teaching about it. See my other post on the thread for the link to his teaching on Genesis. He makes a lot of sense, and it is enough to change my view.

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I think his teachings go against the teachings of my church (LCMS Lutheran).

FaithT said:

I think his teachings go against the teachings of my church (LCMS Lutheran).

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But do they comply with Scripture? That is the question.

Watchman1 said:

But do they comply with Scripture? That is the question.

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My church? Yes. Although tonight I saw someone from my former church (Catholic) who was trying to get me to return, then she started working on my husband.

FaithT said:

My church? Yes. Although tonight I saw someone from my former church (Catholic) who was trying to get me to return, then she started working on my husband.

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I take Dr Ross's teaching on the six days of creation seriously because he is a world class expert in Astrophysics, as well as being a Bible believing Christian, Of all people, he should know what he is talking about. If there are Astrophysicists or Astronomers in your church who can successfully refute Dr. Ross' teaching, then there are grounds for debate.

Watchman1 said:

I take Dr Ross's teaching on the six days of creation seriously because he is a world class expert in Astrophysics, as well as being a Bible believing Christian, Of all people, he should know what he is talking about. If there are Astrophysicists or Astronomers in your church who can successfully refute Dr. Ross' teaching, then there are grounds for debate.

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So, how old do you think the universe is?

FaithT said:

So, how old do you think the universe is?

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I have no idea, but I am beginning to think that it is older than 6,000 years. I have believed that the creation week was six 24 hour days since I first became a believer in 1966, but after viewing Dr. Ross's videos on Genesis, I am having a change of mind.

Note: Dr. Ross does not go along with Theistic Evolution. He firmly believes that Adam and Eve were real people and that Eve is the mother of all living human beings.

Watchman1 said:

You will be interested to know that I discovered teaching by Dr Hugh Ross, an Astrophysicist and committed Christian at Grace Christian Church. I'm quite impressed with his adherence to God's inspired Word and that God started work on the redemption of mankind before He created the heavens and the earth. Also he teaches that God created time and space which means that He exists outside of time and space. All that makes a lot of sense to me.

What is significant however, is that he teaches that the six days of creation were time periods in the earth's history rather than strict 24 hour days. How he describes it also makes sense to me. As a fully qualified Astrophysicist with decades of research and experience he knows what he is talking about. The way he teaches it gives me food for thought and is changing my view of Genesis 1-3.

You must have been praying that I see the light!!
Here is the link to his video,
I can argue black and blue concerning a position that I hold, but when the Holy Spirit steps in and shows me a different way, it shows me that there is always something to learn!

Click to expand...

I can’t see the video. For some reason lately I’ve been having this problem where every YouTube video posted in CF says “oops try watching this video on YouTube kids”. I’m not sure if anyone else is having this problem but when I go to YouTube kids and try to watch it they want to charge me for a subscription which I’m not interested in paying. One thing I would like to point out is you can’t trust someone just because they’re a “scholar” because there are seminary colleges for every single denomination under the sun and they all have different theologies so that right there tells us that just because someone has a degree from a seminary doesn’t mean that they’re right because there’s only one truth and if they don’t agree then someone has to be wrong. That’s why I realized quickly after becoming a Christian that it’s important that we study the scriptures for ourself because that’s the only way to determine if what someone is preaching actually coincides with the scriptures or not.