How old is the earth?

[BNR32FAN]

Meaning...if someone then adds some certain assumptions then they could do their own project of devising/calculating (with certain assumptions) an age for the Earth (or really at most, to be more precise, it's only then a timeline starting after the moment after Adam is ejected from the timeless Garden of Eden, and is now outside the Garden... So, you could call it a 'timeline of mortal man after the Garden' and that would be a bit more accurate....but still problematic even then... because it's....our own man made thing...).

As a certain 16th century bishop did... his own project.

Which God nowhere says to do....

Nonsense, it starts with Adam becoming a father at the age of 120. His age has nothing to do with the garden of Eden. Furthermore it’s not man made it’s simply a matter of believing in what is written. There’s nothing man made about believing the scriptures.

 

[Halbhh]

Nonsense, it starts with Adam becoming a father at the age of 120. His age has nothing to do with the garden of Eden. Furthermore it’s not man made it’s simply a matter of believing in what is written. There’s nothing man made about believing the scriptures.

Ok, I think I'd better let you think about this some more. Come back to it another day, ok? Don't worry that Adam was 120 when he had a son.... Some were far older than that!!

But, that's all after the Garden of Eden....

Please try to see all the words I said in that short post.
Let me highlight a word also: "after" . Look for that one, and consider it. Adam didn't walk of out Eden and then Eve gave birth that same evening....

How long was Adam in the timeless Garden of Eden that had with the Tree of Life....before he ate the forbidden fruit and entered the mortal world of mortal death, and mortal time....

How long was he there before being mortal, nearby to the Tree of Life....while the rest of the world outside the garden marched on through time....

We don't know how much time passed in the outside world.

Here's something vastly more important though: are you generally doing the things Christ said we should: loving everyone around you, forgiving everyone, following Matthew 7:12, and all He taught?....

 

[BNR32FAN]

How long was Adam in the timeless Garden of Eden that had with the Tree of Life....before he ate the forbidden fruit and entered the mortal world of mortal death, and mortal time....

There’s no verse that claims that the garden of Eden was timeless or that time didn’t exist in the garden. Where are you getting that notion from? I’m guessing because of the tree of life? Perpetual life doesn’t negate the measurement of time. There were days and nights in the garden.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Ok, I think I'd better let you think about this some more. Come back to it another day, ok? Don't worry that Adam was 120 when he had a son.... Some were far older than that!!

But, that's all after the Garden of Eden....

Please try to see all the words I said in that short post.
Let me highlight a word also: "after" . Look for that one, and consider it. Adam didn't walk of out Eden and then Eve gave birth that same evening....

How long was Adam in the timeless Garden of Eden that had with the Tree of Life....before he ate the forbidden fruit and entered the mortal world of mortal death, and mortal time....

How long was he there before being mortal, nearby to the Tree of Life....while the rest of the world outside the garden marched on through time....

We don't know how much time passed in the outside world.

Here's something vastly more important though: are you generally doing the things Christ said we should: loving everyone around you, forgiving everyone, following Matthew 7:12, and all He taught?....

I’d kind of like to get back to my question you avoided yesterday, what was the point of this post if you believe that Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 took place in the same day?

The wonderful verses 1 and 2 are of course not about time, but still we can notice that particular time duration (from the beginning in verse 1 and whatever duration that had to the later moment in verse 2) isn't even suggested in any way:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

no time duration stated in verse 1 for these actions...
then, eventually, this moment comes:

2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

We aren't told how much time passed during verse 1 until the moment in verse 2 where the Spirit comes to the waterworld Earth, because that's not the point of the scripture.

It's not about mere duration of time, but it's about something vastly more profound, wonderful and important.

Comparatively, mere time duration in mere mortal days is of no matter (if the time in verse 1 until the moment in verse 2 was 2.6 years or 1 hour or 9 billion years....all of these mere time durations are not of importance in comparison to the real point of the text).

You never answered the question.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here's something vastly more important though: are you generally doing the things Christ said we should: loving everyone around you, forgiving everyone, following Matthew 7:12, and all He taught?....

I do my best.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Let me highlight a word also: "after" . Look for that one, and consider it. Adam didn't walk of out Eden and then Eve gave birth that same evening....

I don’t know what your point is here. We don’t need to know how long after they left the garden to know how many years old Adam was when Seth was born.

“When Adam had lived one hundred and thirty years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This tells us how long Adam had lived when Seth was born. And I do apologize I misread that verse earlier he was 130 years old not 120.

 

[Halbhh]

Perpetual life doesn’t negate the measurement of time.

Maybe!

But supposing 'time' in heaven is one for one identically the same as this 'time' here on this world -- this current world that isn't eternal and will "pass away" is merely one possibility. The idea that time in heaven is only merely just like time on Earth isn't a fact, but an idea/hypothesis/theory or assumption (probably something that most never even thought about).

We do have a verse from 2nd Peter that suggests time in heaven might not be like time on Earth....

=======

(and also the word 'you' by itself is not what makes a sentence combative or trying to pick a fight with someone. It's when anyone uses the word "you" to accuse someone of something bad -- a judgemental sounding post. Read that post about that more carefully please, and I think that should be more clear with another careful look. I'm starting to wonder if my posts are too long perhaps, if they don't seem worth reading through. So, I get the impression we need a reset. Don't make it about you or me as if some competition or contest. This topic should only be discussed in a friendly loving way. Only.)

 

[Halbhh]

what was the point of this post if you believe that Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 took place in the same day?

In that post I was trying to remind us that we don't have any way of knowing how much time passed on Earth outside of the Garden of Eden before Adam ate the fruit that would lead to mortality.

Time in the world outside, while Adam walked with the Eternal One.

While inside the Garden, paradise, which had the Tree of Life, and the Eternal One coming to walk with Adam there....and Adam was not yet subject to mortal death..... (I'm sure we agree!)

Not aging.....

Not growing old.... (no grey hairs, no slowing muscles)

All that time before Adam ate the fruit that would lead to mortality.

We simply don't know that time amount.

1 second. 10,000 years. 100,000 years.

I believe heaven probably doesn't experience 'time' in the same way we do here on Earth.

We just don't know how much that time was in mortal years on Earth, and....ultimately, it's also not really important -- the entire topic of how old the Earth is isn't important enough for God to tell us, and He nowhere in the Bible indicates the age of the Earth actually.

Nor does God command we do so. He commands we treat the foreigner like the native born and love them as ourselves, for example. Not that we calculate an age for the Earth.

----
If you are still reading...

There are very many things I don't assume see. I don't assume Genesis 1:2 happened during Genesis 1:1. I actually read it even more simply -- just reading the text as it is:

first Genesis 1:1 happens
and then after that Genesis 1:2 happens,
and then after that Genesis 1:3 happens,
and continuing.

Also, I do not assume we know how long God's 'days' are in terms of time like mortal human use....

Because the Bible tells me not to assume it's a certain amount of human time -- literally. Literally, word for word, I read so, and I trust this:

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

See? I really do trust the words.

So, that literally means for me that I cannot assert a 'day' for God is always just 24 hours of human time.

Now, please read what we should do if we disagree and it seems too important (like keeping the Sabbath on Saturday instead of another day, or how old the Earth is) and it seems a reason to battle:
Literally, God says to us then: Romans 14 NIV

 

[BNR32FAN]

Maybe!

But supposing 'time' in heaven is one for one identically the same as this 'time' here on this world -- this current world that isn't eternal and will "pass away" is merely one possibility. The idea that time in heaven is only merely just like time on Earth isn't a fact, but an idea/hypothesis/theory or assumption (probably something that most never even thought about).

We do have a verse from 2nd Peter that suggests time in heaven might not be like time on Earth....

=======

(and also the word 'you' by itself is not what makes a sentence combative or trying to pick a fight with someone. It's when anyone uses the word "you" to accuse someone of something bad -- a judgemental sounding post. Read that post about that more carefully please, and I think that should be more clear with another careful look. I'm starting to wonder if my posts are too long perhaps, if they don't seem worth reading through. So, I get the impression we need a reset. Don't make it about you or me as if some competition or contest. This topic should only be discussed in a friendly loving way. Only.)

Again nowhere in the scriptures is there any indication that time in the garden of Eden was any different. That’s why you haven’t provided a single verse to support this claim when I asked for one. One thing is very important to understand when interpreting the scriptures, there is only one truth. So whenever we’re teaching the word of God we’re not just free to teach whatever we want, we’re obligated to teach the truth of His word. That means we’re not free to just interpret the Bible however we please. We have to interpret it in such a way that it lines up with all scripture. And you’re not doing that. Your interpretation requires people to ignore Exodus 20:11. You keep quoting 2 Peter 3:8 as if that pertains to Genesis 1. How many times does “evening and morning” occur in a thousand years?

8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Why does every single day that is mentioned in the creation account in Genesis 1 specifically state “there was evening and there was morning”? Why did God include those words?

 

[Halbhh]

Again nowhere in the scriptures is there any indication that time in the garden of Eden was any different. That’s why you haven’t provided a single verse to support this claim when I asked for one. One thing is very important to understand when interpreting the scriptures, there is only one truth. So whenever we’re teaching the word of God we’re not just free to teach whatever we want, we’re obligated to teach the truth of His word. That means we’re not free to just interpret the Bible however we please. We have to interpret it in such a way that it lines up with all scripture. And you’re not doing that. Your interpretation requires people to ignore Exodus 20:11. You keep quoting 2 Peter 3:8 as if that pertains to Genesis 1. How many times does “evening and morning” occur in a thousand years?


Why does every single day that is mentioned in the creation account in Genesis 1 specifically state “there was evening and there was morning”? Why did God include those words?

I'm going to totally respond in a full way. This requires more than just a few sentences, so I hope you will bear with me, with patience.

It might need patience, or maybe even not!

To discuss in love, we should be patient of course -- that's what's needed for such a deep topic.

I find it helps me tremendously to pray the prayer Christ gave in Matthew 6 before being on the internet in any forum. You need to remember I'm a believer also, as you sometimes seem to not be sure!? I believe every last word 100%.

Ok?


--------

We read in the bible that God uses visions to communicate, more than any other way.

3 The boy Samuel ministered before the Lord under Eli. In those days the word of the Lord was rare; there were not many visions. -- 1 Sam 3:1

Of course, as you know from reading it, the Bible has very many visions in it, not just given only to prophets like Isaiah or Ezekiel, but to very many. You can also see this in how Moses stood out for being a very special exception, we read, in that God spoke with him 'face to face', and this is emphasized to be very unusual, exceptional:

6 he said, “Listen to my words:

“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.

7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.

8 With him I speak face to face, [! -- a very amazing, one-of-a-kind exception!]
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”

Numbers 12 NIV

biblehub.com

I feel awe just reading it again....

wow.....

.....

Ok....?


When you are ready....


As we know, of course, the person who received the revelation from God written down in Genesis chapter 1 was not actually there in person with God in the beginning (Christ was, but not any mortal human!) -- so Genesis chapter 1 is of course given to us through a mortal human being who was given a revelation from God...

The person receiving this then would see some of it, (as in a vision) -- visually see some key things that happened -- and also hear some spoken words from God, which are in quotation marks for us.

Both.

-------

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - New International Version

The Beginning - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good...

www.biblegateway.com

We are getting actual spoken Words from God here -- literally spoken words!!! (They are in quotation marks.)

Let's read some more visions to notice that happenining.


Peter’s Vision
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. ...

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10 - New International Version

Cornelius Calls for Peter - At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon he had a...

www.biblegateway.com

And, like so many places in the Bible when anyone is given a vision, they wonder what it means for a time!


----
8 During the night I had a vision, and there before me was a man mounted on a red horse. He was standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine. Behind him were red, brown and white horses.

9 I asked, “What are these, my lord?”

The angel who was talking with me answered, “I will show you what they are.”

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 1 - New International Version

A Call to Return to the LORD - In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Zechariah son of Berekiah, the son of Iddo: “The LORD was very angry with your ancestors. Therefore tell the people: This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’...

www.biblegateway.com

----

So, the person given the amazing creation vision in Genesis 1 would not naturally be able to understand precisely what he was seeing immediately....

How could anyone understand seeing Earth as a water world for example!!???

What? Earth as a water world with no land???

How could anyone comprehend that as being Earth?.....

How?

Only that God helps us to understand.

God aided him very strongly to understand, giving both spoken words and also even 'days' with a morning and evening --

That's familiar: morning time and evening time: I can understand this vision now -- it's here on Earth, and this is a day!....

In this way, the person receiving this amazing vision that would have been beyond their comprehension could begin to understand it was Earth he was seeing, being made.

Of course, God can do all things, and doesn't have to work slowly, but could make Earth in 1 second.....

But that would be very hard to comprehend as being Earth being made, if it suddenly appears out of nothing fully formed with animals and all the rest....


So, in this vision, creation is shown in a way we can understand.

It unfolds over time in the vision. In 'days' we can recognize as being on Earth -- that's what was seen.

It's understandable to us mortal humans.

God also spoke words to make it clear that Earth was being formed -- and that it is "good" for us as our home. "Very good"....

The words are enough to help make it clear -- God made our home Earth -- everything.


Here I'd better say that certainly visions aren't like a video recording though. (it would be a disrespectful cartoon version of God to claim so!)

God didn't need to set up a camera and record it and then later replay the recording for the person given this revelation....

Instead, all visions are actually given from God -- He creates the vision for us.

So that we can understand what we never could otherwise.

A vision is always a kind of stylized representation of something important. A created scene.

As a parallel analogy, visions are much more like an animation drawing than a video recording or photo from a physical camera.

They are stylistical representations. They are like something, instead of being a photo recording of something.

This is such a wonderful vision of course, and reading it can lift us up out of our base mind into a higher state of mind, ready to hear God's words to come in the scripture....

We should always take a time to sometimes read to just listen to the chapter, without thinking about any debate or doctrinal thing we heard, etc.

That's the main best thing we must gain from Genesis 1 -- just pure listening to hear and be lifted up, ready to continue reading the word....

I hope if anyone ever listens to anything about Genesis 1, they will listen to the key crucial help that we should read to listen, pure listening, not in order to debate, etc.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The notion that God created a narrative in the sky and in the earth that states the earth is 4.5 billion years old and the universe 14.5 billion years old has problems. These fossil records and stories in the skies would essentially be lies. He created a (fictional) story that is not true. Of course He could do this. He could create light that appears to have been traveling through space for billions of years as a record of things that never happened. We see a super nova recorded in the star light that never actually happened. And He could create a fossil record and a geologic record that makes the earth appear to be billions of years old. But why deceive us? The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth forth his handywork. What you are seeing in the sky and in the earth are the result of His hands. Are they lies? Are they a fictional record of things that never really happened?

All that would turn G_d into a Liar, and he is not that.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

skipped to here

 

[BobRyan]

I wrote: scientists have sent a rover to land on Mars. It is running around on its surface right now.

You replied: not true.

Not true.

What you actually wrote was "Based on this guesswork, scientists have sent a rover to land on Mars. It is running around on its surface right now "

AS IF - guessing that a bacteria will one day turn into a rabbit given enough time and chance is the "science" they used to put a moon rover on Mars... which we both know is totally not true.

So then among other things - you are equivocating between "hard sciences" such as "orbital mechanics" - and flat-out-guesswork in the case of faith in evolutionism and the idea that a bacteria will eventually produce a rabbit given enough time and chance.

What exactly is not true about what I wrote?

I hope that clarifies the point.

 

[BobRyan]

I'm going to totally respond in a full way. This requires more than just a few sentences, so I hope you will bear with me, with patience.

It might need patience, or maybe even not!

To discuss in love, we should be patient of course -- that's what's needed for such a deep topic.

I find it helps me tremendously to pray the prayer Christ gave in Matthew 6 before being on the internet in any forum. You need to remember I'm a believer also, as you sometimes seem to not be sure!? I believe every last word 100%.

Ok?


--------

We read in the bible that God uses visions to communicate, more than any other way.

3 The boy Samuel ministered before the Lord under Eli. In those days the word of the Lord was rare; there were not many visions. -- 1 Sam 3:1

Of course, as you know from reading it, the Bible has very many visions in it, not just given only to prophets like Isaiah or Ezekiel, but to very many. You can also see this in how Moses stood out for being a very special exception, we read, in that God spoke with him 'face to face', and this is emphasized to be very unusual, exceptional:

6 he said, “Listen to my words:

“When there is a prophet among you,
I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions,
I speak to them in dreams.

7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.

8 With him I speak face to face, [! -- a very amazing, one-of-a-kind exception!]
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the Lord.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?”

Numbers 12 NIV

biblehub.com

I feel awe just reading it again....

wow.....

.....

Ok....?


When you are ready....


As we know, of course, the person who received the revelation from God written down in Genesis chapter 1 was not actually there in person with God in the beginning (Christ was, but not any mortal human!) -- so Genesis chapter 1 is of course given to us through a mortal human being who was given a revelation from God...

The person receiving this then would see some of it, (as in a vision) -- visually see some key things that happened -- and also hear some spoken words from God, which are in quotation marks for us.

Both.

-------

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - New International Version

The Beginning - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good...

www.biblegateway.com

We are getting actual spoken Words from God here -- literally spoken words!!! (They are in quotation marks.)

Let's read some more visions to notice that happenining.


Peter’s Vision
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. ...

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 10 - New International Version

Cornelius Calls for Peter - At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was known as the Italian Regiment. He and all his family were devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly. One day at about three in the afternoon he had a...

www.biblegateway.com

And, like so many places in the Bible when anyone is given a vision, they wonder what it means for a time!


----
8 During the night I had a vision, and there before me was a man mounted on a red horse. He was standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine. Behind him were red, brown and white horses.

9 I asked, “What are these, my lord?”

The angel who was talking with me answered, “I will show you what they are.”

Bible Gateway passage: Zechariah 1 - New International Version

A Call to Return to the LORD - In the eighth month of the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Zechariah son of Berekiah, the son of Iddo: “The LORD was very angry with your ancestors. Therefore tell the people: This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’...

www.biblegateway.com

----

So, the person given the amazing creation vision in Genesis 1 would not naturally be able to understand precisely what he was seeing immediately....

How could anyone understand seeing Earth as a water world for example!!???

What? Earth as a water world with no land???

How could anyone comprehend that as being Earth?.....

How?

Only that God helps us to understand.

God aided him very strongly to understand, giving both spoken words and also even 'days' with a morning and evening --

That's familiar: morning time and evening time: I can understand this vision now -- it's here on Earth, and this is a day!....

In this way, the person receiving this amazing vision that would have been beyond their comprehension could begin to understand it was Earth he was seeing, being made.

Of course, God can do all things, and doesn't have to work slowly, but could make Earth in 1 second.....

But that would be very hard to comprehend as being Earth being made, if it suddenly appears out of nothing fully formed with animals and all the rest....


So, in this vision, creation is shown in a way we can understand.

It unfolds over time in the vision. In 'days' we can recognize as being on Earth -- that's what was seen.

It's understandable to us mortal humans.

God also spoke words to make it clear that Earth was being formed -- and that it is "good" for us as our home. "Very good"....

The words are enough to help make it clear -- God made our home Earth -- everything.


Here I'd better say that certainly visions aren't like a video recording though. (it would be a disrespectful cartoon version of God to claim so!)

God didn't need to set up a camera and record it and then later replay the recording for the person given this revelation....

Instead, all visions are actually given from God -- He creates the vision for us.

So that we can understand what we never could otherwise.

A vision is always a kind of stylized representation of something important. A created scene.

As a parallel analogy, visions are much more like an animation drawing than a video recording or photo from a physical camera.

They are stylistical representations. They are like something, instead of being a photo recording of something.

This is such a wonderful vision of course, and reading it can lift us up out of our base mind into a higher state of mind, ready to hear God's words to come in the scripture....

We should always take a time to sometimes read to just listen to the chapter, without thinking about any debate or doctrinal thing we heard, etc.

That's the main best thing we must gain from Genesis 1 -- just pure listening to hear and be lifted up, ready to continue reading the word....

I hope if anyone ever listens to anything about Genesis 1, they will listen to the key crucial help that we should read to listen, pure listening, not in order to debate, etc.

You're doing a lot of guessing when you insist on conclusions that are of the form -- "day does not mean day" in Gen 1 or Ex 20:8-11, "morning and evening are not one day" in Gen 1, and "we are getting bad information since Moses did not understand all of science".

In Dan 8 -- Daniel is given information that he says he does not understand and yet STILL God moves upon him to accurately state his vision complete with all of its symbols accurately stated.

Moses did not know all that God knew to create the world and all life on it in 7 days - but he DID know what a day was, he DID know what a morning and evening were, and did know what plants, animals, water, air were.

you are eisegeting wild ideas that go against the actual content of the text.

Even the atheist professors of Hebrew and OT studies in all world class universities agree with what I am saying - although they reject the Bible as teaching truth.

==========================
Atheists often don't mind "admitting" to what the Bible says - they simply reject the idea that what it says is actually true. As in rejecting the virgin birth, the bodily ascension of Christ, the miracles of the bible and in this example they freely admit to what the Bible says - while rejecting it as 'truth'.

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford, has written:

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that:​

​

(a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience​

​

(b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story​

​

(c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark.​

​

Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’​

 

[tonychanyt]

Not true.

Is there a rover on Mars right now?

 

[BobRyan]

Is there a rover on Mars right now?

Did you read post 294?? #294
It addresses your point of confusion on what you are responding to

(in post 294)

What you actually wrote was "Based on this guesswork, scientists have sent a rover to land on Mars. It is running around on its surface right now "

AS IF - guessing that a bacteria will one day turn into a rabbit given enough time and chance is the "science" they used to put a moon rover on Mars... which we both know is totally not true.

So then among other things - you are equivocating between "hard sciences" such as "orbital mechanics" - and flat-out-guesswork in the case of faith in evolutionism and the idea that a bacteria will eventually produce a rabbit given enough time and chance.

I hope that clarifies the point.

if you respond to that we can move to the next step otherwise I would need to repost 294

 

[tonychanyt]

if you respond to that we can move to the next step otherwise I would need to repost 2

Let proposition P1 = There is a rover on Mars right now.

True?

 

[BobRyan]

Let proposition P1 = There is a rover on Mars right now.

True?

true but I already stated the flaw in your logic -- why not address it??

Did you read post 294?? #294
It addresses your point of confusion on what you are responding to

if you respond to that we can move to the next step otherwise I would need to repost 294

 

[tonychanyt]

true but I already stated the flaw in your logic -- why not address it??

Are you familiar with First-Order Logic?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Moses did not know all that God knew to create the world and all life on it in 7 days - but he DID know what a day was, he DID know what a morning and evening were, and did know what plants, animals, water, air were.

I think it’s irrelevant whether Moses knew what a day was or not in this particular case because he’s quoting directly the words God Himself spoke. I mean I absolutely agree that Moses knew what a day was but Moses isn’t the one actually speaking in this case, God is.

“Then God spoke all these words, saying,”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬