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How much sin?

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jiminpa

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The thread was just bait. She wanted to bait those of us who don't believe OSAS into admitting that you can't sin your way out of salvation, thinking that that destroys our argument. No problem. I admit it. You can't sin away your salvation! Duh. That's not how it happens. This thread is a the same strawman that Calvinists always use to try to prove their shaky position. They claim that if you can "lose" your salvation, then it must be by commiting too many sins.

There is no true answer to this thread, since the question was flawed to begin with.

Good thing we can disagree without losing our love for one another.
 
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inrsoul

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jiminpa said:
The thread was just bait. She wanted to bait those of us who don't believe OSAS into admitting that you can't sin your way out of salvation, thinking that that destroys our argument. No problem. I admit it. You can't sin away your salvation! Duh. That's not how it happens. This thread is a the same strawman that Calvinists always use to try to prove their shaky position. They claim that if you can "lose" your salvation, then it must be by commiting too many sins.

There is no true answer to this thread, since the question was flawed to begin with.

Good thing we can disagree without losing our love for one another.

Actually this thread came about as a result from the other one that Christina M started that turned into an unnecessary heated argument really. And it wasn't meant as a bait to shake anyone's foundations so to speak.

:)
 
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SavedByGrace3

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It only takes one "sin unto death", which is a (the?) sin "after the similitude of Adam's transgression" that caused his spiritual death.

Rom 5
1 John 5

This is the intentional denial of Jesus the Christ, the word of God, from the heart. This would seem to be something a born again Child of God could not do.
I suppose the equivilant of this would be to experience the grace of God up to the point of being saved, filled with the Spirit, ministering healing and miracles.... and then with complete knowledge and will walk into a life of absolute sin and debauchery... enduring the continual abuse to the burning conscience and resisting the continual conviction of the Holy Spirit... to then with that same full knowledge and will not just deny Christ, but to rebell againt Him like the angels of old. This is not merely a backsiding... it is a rebellion against known truth.
"I know you are Lord and Christ... but I refuse to submit to your Lordship. I deny you my soul and life. I will live my life the way I want to and do so fully aware of my destiny and fate. I knowingly and willingly join with satan and his rebellion against you."
They really think they will win.
Even then... the decsion is up to God.
 
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Hisgirl

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Romans 5:8-9....But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 5:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spiriti of our God.

Acts 13:38-39 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins; And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could
not be justified by the law of Moses.

jus·ti·fy
To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid:


  1. To declare free of blame; absolve.
  2. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
If one or fifty unrepented sins can separate me from the Father...then if I repented of each sin...I could stand before the Father and in essence say, "See! I kept the rules! I confessed every last thought, every word of gossip...didn't miss one!"

Then I could boast on my own efforts to secure my salvation.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If you truly believe an unconfessed unrepented sin can erase your name...is it one sin? Or fifty? Just which one will tilt the scales too much?

"A'maal Namah" (record of doings) is taught in Islam...a muslim hopes he did 51% good over his life..... sounds like a burdensome and frightening yoke to me. Jesus told us His yoke is easy and His burden light and that I would find rest unto my soul (Matt 11:29-30)


Even if we 'continue sinning willfully'...I've always had faith in God to deal with those whom He loves...

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

IMO. :)










 
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Christina M

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1 Cor 5:11-12 said:
But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?



Many claim to be a brother (saved) and are not. Yet many here seem to think that just because someone once said a sinner's prayer they are saved.
 
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Christina M

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Hisgirl said:
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God; for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.






Yes..... a real Christian will not take lightly nor frustrate the grace of God. If they have truly embrace His freedom, they will not choose to sin. One will not continue in adultery, cheating, fornication, whatever is ungodly - on purpose!
 
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Paladin21

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A friendly challenge to anyone who wants to explain these verses to me, I GREW UP in a baptist background and I have still not got a clean answer on any of these.

Some things to chew on



I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev. 3


4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 20

15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Ouch :sorry:

James 5

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

:wave:

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,


5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

:amen:

Matt. 7

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'



Wow thats pretty clean cut, I still find it hard to think that you can debate the issue since verse #1 says "I will not Blot his name out of the book" meaning he has the power to. #2 says if we save a BROTHER from sin we save his SOUL from death. #3 says if we take part in the heavenly gift (being saved) if they fall away (which its saying they can) they cannot come back. #4 It says palinly that not everyone who just says "Lord lord" (to me a direct example of sinners prayer) will make it to heaven if they DID NOT DO THE WILL OF GOD.
 
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Christina M

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Paladin21 said:
Wow thats pretty clean cut, I still find it hard to think that you can debate the issue since verse #1 says "I will not Blot his name out of the book" meaning he has the power to. #2 says if we save a BROTHER from sin we save his SOUL from death. #3 says if we take part in the heavenly gift (being saved) if they fall away (which its saying they can) they cannot come back. #4 It says palinly that not everyone who just says "Lord lord" (to me a direct example of sinners prayer) will make it to heaven if they DID NOT DO THE WILL OF GOD.


Sure is clean cut..... but many choose not to see it.

It will be amazing when we get to heaven and see how few are there.
 
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goy

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Godzchild said:
Just want to know, from all those folk who believe that committing sin can make you lose your salvation, exactly how much sin does one need to commit to be able to undo the work of God?

Is there an amount?
Your question proves you never understood (or bothered to understand) the OSNAS view. :D Now go away sheela. :p
 
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Joy

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i make no apology for highlighting this response again, I believe it provides the wisest and clearest understanding on a very difficut and emotive subject.


Oscarr said:
I have decided to put my oar in here. For a start, there is quite a process to go through to obtain salvation and get the assurance of it. Firstly, you have to see that you are a sinner, a complete sinner, a wretched sinner worthy only of condemnation; and rightly so. Before we can get past first base, we have to have a very clear appreciation of the fact that we are sinners who justly deserve eternal hell. Too many people walk up an accept Christ without going through that process, and it is no surprise that they last only a short while before they either fall back into their sinful life or continue a false Christian life full of pride and self righteousness.

The Gospel only becomes good news to those who are fully convinced of their wretched sinful state and also convinced that in no way will they ever be able to live a sinless live, acceptable to God.

Then, the next step is to stand before the cross of Christ and fully appreciate what He did for us there. He died to make us fully justified and acceptable to God. We need to accept Jesus into our lives on that basis.

Then we need to seek the Lord for the assurance that we are fully saved, and that our step of faith in believing that Jesus died for us on the cross, and our acceptance of Him into our lives has justified us before God. We need the Holy Spirit to put that witness into our hearts. It might not come automatically. According to many examples of godly men and women through the ages, it seems that it has to be sought for over a length of time and with all your heart.

It took John Bunyan eight years of struggling before he got that assurance from the Holy Spirit. That is a big difference between the easy believerism where someone can waltz up to the altar and mumble some prayer of committment and then believe that they are truly saved.

The trouble with many of today's Christians is that they have done just that. Gone up to the altar, probably under pressure from a group of enthusiastic people who want God to work more quickly in the person than might be appropriate, and then come away not knowing exactly what he did, other than 'getting religion' and then spending the rest of his or her life struggling along trying to be 'holy', and probably ending up in bondage to self righteousness and filthy, stinking pride, and then falling down into Hell when he or she dies - merely because they did not make sure that their salvation was sure.

The world is full of backslidden 'Christians' who have gone this way. They never waited for God to work in them to give them the assurance of their salvation, so they fell away after a time of trying because they knew that did not have what it took to live the Christian life.

It is significant that those who seek long and hard with God for the assurance of salvation, and then get it through blood, sweat and tears before God, do not usually fall away from Him afterwards, but go on a live very strong Christian lives.

So, how much sin does it take to lose your salvation. Well, if you never had salvation or the assurance of it in the first place, then it just takes the effort to walk out of the church and not go back.


But for those who have done the hard yards with God and received the assurance of salvation from the Holy Spirit, no amount of sin will cause them to lose their salvation, because they will love God so much that they will not leave any sin unconfessed and unforgiven.
 
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Paladin21

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Very well written indeed. I am still looking for an answer on mine but I will talk about this post.

Lets say there is 1,000,000,000 people that get "saved" in a certain amount of time lets just say one year. Out of all those people I see statements like this and I have to question if you REALLY think that out of those 1,000,000,000 people not even 1 of those people were genuily saved!

Remember this that God says knock and the door will be opened. He only requires you to ask I think anyone who asks is saved even if they don't really understand it all the way.

Even if it was the case that the people who came up and ask were not really saved. Out of those 1,000,000,000 people you are saying not one of them was really saved. Thats some crazy odds you are weighing on.
 
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goy

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Life in Abundance said:
i make no apology for highlighting this response again, I believe it provides the wisest and clearest understanding on a very difficut and emotive subject.


Oscarr said:
...
But for those who have done the hard yards with God and received the assurance of salvation from the Holy Spirit, no amount of sin will cause them to lose their salvation, because they will love God so much that they will not leave any sin unconfessed and unforgiven.
Missed the point again! Darn... :p
 
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Trish1947

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Can anyone that truely see's that savation is a free gift not adopt the attitude of thankfulness, and want to draw closer to the one that gave it? I'd say someone that didn't see it in the first place, will do this, because they will still try to obtain it by works, so they walk away in condemnation and a since of utter failure. They don't stay long enough to see that God is not asking us to be good, which we can't. But what He wanted to show us, is that they received that sinless life into them, and did not allow Him to produce His life in us. This is His promise to do this for us, and they didn't understand it.
 
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Paladin21

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Trish, you make a great point but you forget the selfishness of people. If you think that everyone you gets saved and feels the love of Christ will never walk away I think you have another thing coming me thinks.


Also remember how much people blame God from things and run away from him just because something bad happend and slowly fade away. I mean there are a bunch of reasons people walk away but it DOES happen.
 
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Trish1947

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Paladin21........... Trish, you make a great point but you forget the selfishness of people. If you think that everyone you gets saved and feels the love of Christ will never walk away I think you have another thing coming me thinks.

I'm including myself in this. I did walk away for alot of years. And I truely have to say I thank God for His faithfulness. But I will admit I did not understand what I had received. And I think alot of people walk away because of lack of understanding on what He has done and is doing in our lives.
 
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goy

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Paladin21 said:
Trish, you make a great point but you forget the selfishness of people. If you think that everyone you gets saved and feels the love of Christ will never walk away I think you have another thing coming me thinks.


Also remember how much people blame God from things and run away from him just because something bad happend and slowly fade away. I mean there are a bunch of reasons people walk away but it DOES happen.
Besides anybody who meets Paladin21 wiff his sword in a dark alley WILL confess Jesus is Lord whether they believe it or nawt :bow:

:D
 
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