How much sin?

Joy · Oct 27, 2005

chilifrankplate said:
I'm really not sure what all this is about a new nature. When I was born again, all that really changed was that I had a new spirit that is alive unto God. My nature changed very little. I still struggled with the same problems that I did before I was saved. I admit, God blessed me by delivering me from a couple "bad habits", but for the most part, it's been up to me to stay on this walk, stay in prayer, and in the word to get beyond these problems. To say that any of us will reach a point where we will no longer sin is ridiculous in my opinion. Also, I have heard God speak to me on several occasions while I was really struggling with a few things, so I don't believe that being in the flesh will cut us off from our Father. The key is to repent and seek Him earnestly.

Thanks

I need that encouragement today please pray i may truly repent

chilifrankplate · Oct 27, 2005

It blesses me to know that my words have helped even one person. You will be in my prayers.

paraducks · Oct 27, 2005

Jimmy West said:
God soes not have a problem with your sin. His problem is that you keep on doing it, when you should have grown and moved beyond your sin.

This is a very short statement, so I want to be careful not to read to much into it. However, from what can be understood, the first sentence is in error. God indeed has a great "problem" with sin. So much so that He sent His Son to die a horrible death on the cross that we could enjoy a perfectly sinless eternity with Him.

Godzchild · Oct 27, 2005

The price of sin has been paid for IN FULL! Those who believe in the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross have eternal life and have gone from death to life.

paraducks · Oct 27, 2005

Godzchild said:
The price of sin has been paid for IN FULL! Those who believe in the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross have eternal life and have gone from death to life.

You are absolutely correct. And those who have not been given Life will find out one day that God does indeed have a big "problem" with sin. That problem will then become their problem.

SavedByGrace3 · Oct 27, 2005

We need see salvation as existing in realms... eternal and temporal.
Being born again ensures your eternal salvation. Nothing but a sin unto death will remove this from you. This is the kingdom of God.

Christ being made a curse for us on the cross provides for you temporal salvation dependant on your walking in the spirit and faith. This includes provisions of health and prosperity, as well as freedom from demonic oppression. This is a taste of the kingdom of heaven which will manifest fully in the earthly rule of Christ and which can be partaken of today by faith and by walking in the spirit. You can lose these blessings by unbelief, sin, ignorance, and deception.

Godzchild · Oct 27, 2005

Losing blessings is a little bit different from losing salvation though.

Trish1947 · Oct 27, 2005

I believe that the more you learn to walk in the Spirit, the less you become sin conscious. The less sin conscious you become, the less the sinful flesh participates in sin. The flesh never becomes sinless, just mortifed. These bodies still have to be changed and put on incorruption.

Doug45 · Oct 27, 2005

JBaker45 said:
When a Christian accepts Jesus as their savior, born within them is new nature.

The old nature is still with us, but the new nature continues to grow and take it's place.

The old nature is lost in sin, but the new nature will choose to do what God wants us to do.

2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

When we are raised up (on the last day) the old nature will finally be put away forever and we will be perfected in our new natures.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I believe that some of your observations are true, but the passage that you reference in 2 Pet is followed by these verses that clearly indicate these promises to be conditional and requiring our response in order to receive.

2 Peter 1:5-9
Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge; [6] and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness; [7] and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. [8] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

Doug

goy · Oct 27, 2005

Doug45 said:
2 Peter 1:5-9
Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge; [6] and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness; [7] and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. [8] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

Ouch, what a rude awakening for me

But thank you for that timely and sobering passage.

singinforthelord · Oct 27, 2005

A person living for God, allows satan to temp him and gives into the temptation of homosexuality. This person would lose their salvation because God calls it an abomination. Something that God perceives as an abomination will not enter into heaven. Yes you can in certain circumstances lose your salvation. If you couldn't then everybody would be in heaven and there would be no hell. God himself said the path is narrow and few will make it. The Bible speaks of hell expanding itself daily, but not Heaven. God give us free will. He gives us the gift of salvation, and yes he offers it for a lifetime, but just as you could give me a gift, say a ring, I could cherish that ring forever, until the day I die, or I can roll my window down on the interstate and throw it out the window. It is my choice. If there was no option of losing out with God, we wouldn't have free will. It would be like Ok you chose me now you can never leave me. That is not the God I serve. He lets me choose heaven or hell.

RCCdefender · Oct 27, 2005

I,m not here to debate but in 1 John 5:16 he talks about deadly sin. He makes a distinction in the severity of sin. so if one cannot seperate ones self from God by sin then what is John talking about?

singinforthelord · Oct 27, 2005

very good RCCDefender

RCCdefender · Oct 27, 2005

singinforthelord said:
very good RCCDefender

Thanks, and peace be with you.

psalms 91 · Oct 27, 2005

RCCdefender said:
I,m not here to debate but in 1 John 5:16 he talks about deadly sin. He makes a distinction in the severity of sin. so if one cannot seperate ones self from God by sin then what is John talking about?

amen

Doug45 · Oct 27, 2005

goy said:
Ouch, what a rude awakening for me

But thank you for that timely and sobering passage.

I didn't mean to pierce anyone, but it's easy to asume things that are not true for we often quote things out of context. And because we do, it taints our understanding of the spirit of what is being said.

But then again, piercing is not bad if He uses it surgically.

Blessings,

Doug

goy · Oct 27, 2005

No worries. If at all, it's the word of God that pierces

JBaker45 · Oct 27, 2005

Jimmy West said:
THE NEW NATURE WILL NOT ALWAYS CHOOSE TO DO WHAT GOD WANTS US TO DO. MOST CHRISTIANS CAN NOT HEAR THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAUSE THEY ARE STILL LISTENING TO THEIR FLESH!

If you agree that the old nature still dwells within us, then why should you question our new holy nature?

Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

JBaker45 · Oct 27, 2005

Doug45 said:
I believe that some of your observations are true, but the passage that you reference in 2 Pet is followed by these verses that clearly indicate these promises to be conditional and requiring our response in order to receive.

2 Peter 1:5-9
Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge; [6] and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness; [7] and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. [8] For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. [9] For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.

Doug

You are saying that these works are required for salvation?
Or, rather, are these the fruits of our sanctification?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

Doug45 · Oct 27, 2005

JBaker45 said:
You are saying that these works are required for salvation?
Or, rather, are these the fruits of our sanctification?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God

I'm saying that having the promises of God doesn't automatically translate to a 'new nature'. We have a responsibility to put off the old man and put on the new man. It doesn't happen accidentally.

Salvation involves the regeneration of our spirits which is what most people refer to as salvation. It is really justification. It also includes the regeneration of our souls which is traditionally called sanctification. And finally the body is redeemed at the coming of the Lord Jesus. The total of all three aspects is salvation.

While my spirit is totally free of sin and corruption, my soul is plagued by the remnants of my 'old man'. The visible transformation of my life before men begins at my justification, but is continually working in my soul and it is transformed by the renewing of my mind. But I wait for the salvation of my body to the future.

What I am saying is the sinful nature never resided in my spirit, but rather in my flesh which controlled my soul which strongly influence my spirit that was dead to the things of God. Once the Spirit of God moves into a life at the point of justification, He works in us to reorder our entire being to the place where our spirit becomes alive to God and rules over our soul and our soul subjects our body to the rule of the spirit.

So if the grace is resident in the promises, the apropriation to the promises and the grace embodied by them remains with us. Grace is God's enablement to demonstrate Jesus.

My objection to your use of this passage is that it is plainly conditional and not automatic. If my understanding and experience means salvation by works to you, then let it be so. I serve another Master.

Doug

How much sin?

John 3:16

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