How much is too much?

[Worship All Day]

ohh kay, yeah i completely agree. we do need to keep ourselves accoutable, and have other Christians to help hold us accountable too. like you said, we are sinful people, living in a sinful world.

we definately shouldn't try to do things that are impossible for us, or try to be perfect. that just won't happen. right there with ya

 

[HopeForHeaven]

I agree. I think what Worship All Day is saying, is that most of this conversation has been about where the line is, and how close is too close? Like how we can get as close to sin without actually sinning? The fact is, God wants us to stay far away from sin, and if all we do is focus on the rules, rather than on God, we're missing the point. But I do agree that we need to set boundaries. My boyfriend and I (Worship All Day is the one) have set boundaries, so I think he knows that there do need to be those boundaries.

And yeah, we all make mistakes, but when we have those boundaries, at least we know beforehand, and there's less of a chance of making those mistakes. It's hard enough without drawing the line. But the point is, not how close to get to the bad, but how close to get to the good.

 

[GirlForChrist]

I agree ORAL SEX IS SEX.
Notice: Sex and sex are the same word

 

[Cragg]

SO petting etc.. is ok? and "exploring" the other persons body is ok?

Do you think fondling your girlfriend is pleasing to God? Is getting hot and heavy as long as you do not have oral or v*ginal sex pleasing to God?

I'm yet to find somewhere in the Bible to give me a reason to think that its a sin. Feel free to correct me.

 

[Worship All Day]

like YouthPastor said, is it bringing glory to God? things don't have to be a sin to take your focus off of God, or hurt your relationship with Him

 

[DaveKerwin]

Cragg, absense is not license.

Since the Bible does not discuss internet porn, that does not mean I have permission to look at it. The Bible does not mention "petting" or whatever you want to call it, but seriously think about it. Think about what your mind is doing, what your heart is doing, and if you are respecting her body. I do not think that is how you show respect. I think respect is exibited in abstinence. Maybe if you ask more questions we can get to some more conclusions.

 

[YouthPastor]

Cragg - you signature says, do all things to the Glory of God - Petting your girlfriend - does this bring Glory to God?

The Bible talks alot about sexual imorality.

it does talk about sex within marriage only!

In addition, the petting, necking etc.. is all foreplay.

The definition of foreplay is:
erotic stimulation preceding sexual intercourse

Petting, rubbing etc.. is all foreplay. You say - well we don't have sexual intercourse so it is not foreplay - because the definition you posted says foreplay precedes intercourse. It is Still erotic stimulation.

Why is it that we ask how close to the line we can go instead of how close to God can I get?

In addition - do you want some other guy petting your future wife?

 

[Cragg]

I don't believe God has a problem with it. I have many many many many many (you get the idea) problems, and for each problem I get convicted by God about it. I've prayed to God about what I should do, and there is no conviction for it. Thus in concusion <enter conclusion here>

 

[Worship All Day]

i don't see how it is really loving your girlfriend. what is love? love is an action, read 1 Corinthians 4:8-7. i don't see how just doing something that is good in the here and the now is really looking out for her best interests.

i say this because, do you know that you are really going to marry her? just for example, what if you don't? then you both will have given eachother a part of you that you will never get back. you can never have those experiences with your future wife. similar to what youthpastor said, if i go around going as far as i please with every woman, i'll have been making out, groping, whatever a bumch of people's wives. would you go up to your friends mom and do that? would you go up to a friend's wife and do that? do you want your friend to say to you, man, she's a bad kisser. or, 'its boring, i've done that with her'. i certainly hope not! it doesn't make much sense to me.

i don't see how you are really protecting your girlfriend's purity and heart, when you are engaging in physical pleasures before marriage. you're setting eachother up for major possible hurt in the future. you tell me how that is love, and i will change my mind about not getting physically involved with my current courtship-mate-person. girl.

believe me, i'm a guy too. we both want to kiss and be intimate. its not like i think its gross or something....but i hold her heart way above my desires, and even hers.

 

[Cragg]

I can reasonably say that there is a high chance of us getting married. She is probably reading this.. and im comfortable to say that. I know I'm gonna need a bloomin good reason for me to split up with her, and I'm quite sure she feels the same.

So thus, your example, whilst I'm not knocking the example (it being a good example), is unlikely in this situation. *waits for the queue of people saying "Your young and dont know what love is etc..", "things can always go wrong", "how can you be sure?", "your feelings might change"* (if what you are going to say falls into any of those categories, then please don't say it)
Yes, I have had other girlfriends, and kissing is about as far as I went with them... some didn't even make it as far as kissing.

And yes, I do think it is loving her.


Anyway.. I thought this place was for discussing... not tearing apart someone elses beliefs? You dont see me tearing apart what you believe... as I said, I feel its up to the person to set their limits, they know themselves better than any person on this forum, if you believe your limit is at kissing, then fine! I'm happy for ya!

I'm trying not to offend people here, while maintaining my beliefs. I put my thoughts in on the subject to give a different angle on things, not to get critisized for them.

 

[DaveKerwin]

back on topic: being sexual is too much.

 

[katylees]

hmmm i dont know what to think but i think i agree with the majority and not so much with cragg sorry :S *confused*

 

[AuthorityWalker]

How much is too much? A question that begs for an answer in almost all dating/courting relationships only because we are sinful people. When we ask ourselves this question, we are basically asking, "How far can I go physically with my significant other and feel morally right?" Yes, setting boundaries is important in all dating/courting relationships so you can guard against the carnal natures of two people. But in actuality, boundaries should really never come into the question. Paul tells us to flee from temptation. Thus, stay as far away as you can from sexual temptations until marriage. One book that I find to be extremely beneficial for courting couples is Boy Meets Girl by Joshua Harris. In a nutshell, he describes his feelings on what a true courtship should be.

Basically, we should be asking the question how close in God can we grow together? Not how much is too much? If you're asking that, your heart is probably all ready in the wrong place. We need to guard each other's hearts and respect our significant others. Everything we do should bring glory to God and His kingdom.

There you go, my opinion in a nutshell.

 

[DaveKerwin]

I think we are kidding ourselves if we think we do not need boundareis. We are not super christians, well, I am not. If you do not set boundaries, then you have no measure for good or bad. If the bible said what was acceptable, then there would be no question. That is not the case. You are right though, the bible does tell us to flee from sexual immorality. The problem is, again, our flesh. Our flesh will make us want to throw all morality out the window when we are sexually charged. Our flesh will lead us to make exceptions and subjectively define the bible. We are kidding ourselves if we think we do not need boundaries. Traditional courting couples, and even Joshua Harris had boundaries. It is wise to know what is acceptable and what is not. But the issue here is not if boundaries should exist. The issue is what those boundaries should be.

Since I have lived both sides of the issue, I think my council is wise. Do not be sexual in any way with someone you are not married to. When you are dating, or even engaged, you have no right to be in a person’s pants because they do not belong to you, you ought to treat her like your sis.

I heard a good boundary from someone here at Christian forums. He said that you should not do anything that you would be embarrassed to watch your parents do. I almost fully agree with this. I have shared that my girlfriend and I kiss, and we have been able to stay to that boundary almost every time. I would not want to see my parents make out, but that is just me. For some, kissing is not right because it will lead them astray. This is just like how drinking is wrong for some, but not for others when done in obedience to Christ.

Regardless of who you are, you cannot say in good faith that being sexual with someone you are not married to is acceptable before God. So my two cents is that no matter who you are, being sexual with your significant other is NOT acceptable.

 

[AuthorityWalker]

Regardless of who you are, you cannot say in good faith that being sexual with someone you are not married to is acceptable before God. So my two cents is that no matter who you are, being sexual with your significant other is NOT acceptable.

Exactly!!!

Pretty much all I was trying to say is that we shouldn't be asking the question how much is too much? Because it is the wrong question. However, that we should be asking how much can I get closer in God with my significant other? Whereas in being bible studies, praying, devotionals whatever. I'm just saying that when we ask, " How much is too much?" our heart is all ready in the wrong place. When we ask this question, it's like we are looking for others people's opinions so we can justify or rationalize where we are in a relationship. Someone's opinion may be everything up to sex is fine, but that doesn't mean it's fine for you. What we all really need to do is seek God on the issue, because each of our scenarios are different. One of us may be fine with kissing, while the other may not. For me, the boundary in and of itself is kissing. Nothing past that.

 

[HeatherJay]

My opinion : Anything that causes your body to control your mind instead of your mind controlling your body is too much. Authority, I think you and Dave are both quite right is all that you said

Love, Heather

 

[Brokenleaf]

There is a problem here.

I don't think that the right question is being asked.
You ask "How much is two much" and that is like saying "How much can I do without tecnically sinning"
This mentallity is wrong if not dangerous.

Purity is not a line... It is a direction

Instead of seeing how close we can get to sex without actually having sex, we should avoid it as much as we can in order to please God. We need "to pursue" purity.

Also, remember this "What ever you do to someone to the opposite sex, you are doing to someone elses future husband or wife"

So if you wouldn't be comfortable seeing your "Husband or Wife" kissing someone else, why should you be "okay" with kissing someone you are not married to?