How much & how often

[Resha Caner]

I have a host of related questions, but I don't want to bombard people so I'll try to take them a few at a time.

As a little background, our pastor recently solicited a list of questions from the congregation and spent several weeks of bible study answering those questions. The question I submitted was: Does being Lutheran matter?

As expected, it was a "yes and no" answer. It's not like there is some sort of cultural superiority or that we have a special line to God just because the sign on the church says "Lutheran." But, confessional Lutherans do teach something different than most of our neighboring churches and its important to keep what we confess in front of people.

So, my first question is: How much do you think people in your congregation are studying on their own or in groups not led by church staff? The second question would be: Where do you think most of the material for those studies comes from?

 

[Tangible]

At my old church there were about five alternate adult bible classes (other than the pastor's class). Except for one class that just read through the bible using Lutheran study notes, all the other classes were using Evangelical materials - Dobson, Lucado, Zacharias ...

At our new church there is only the pastor's class, and the doctrine is confessional Lutheran.

 

[Resha Caner]

At my old church there were about five alternate adult bible classes (other than the pastor's class). Except for one class that just read through the bible using Lutheran study notes, all the other classes were using Evangelical materials - Dobson, Lucado, Zacharias ...

At our new church there is only the pastor's class, and the doctrine is confessional Lutheran.

So, did that influence you moving to a new church, or was it other circumstances?

As I recall the church I grew up in, no one dared to speak a theological word without approval from the paster - which seemed a little extreme to me. In my current church, however, I would bet that most people involved in study are using primarily non-confessional sources. It seems it may have gone a little too far the other way.

I'm just curious what is typical, and how much the leadership of Lutheran churches considers this.

 

[cerette]

My experience from several confessional Lutheran groups is that--generally speaking--people don't study all that much.

But I have also been in congregations where we had Bible studies in homes once a week, apart from the Sunday study at church. My husband led them for many years and sometimes we had 20 people attending, not all of them members of our church, but at least interested in learning what we Lutherans believe.

 

[Tangible]

So, did that influence you moving to a new church, or was it other circumstances?

As I recall the church I grew up in, no one dared to speak a theological word without approval from the pastor - which seemed a little extreme to me. In my current church, however, I would bet that most people involved in study are using primarily non-confessional sources. It seems it may have gone a little too far the other way.

I'm just curious what is typical, and how much the leadership of Lutheran churches considers this.

We moved for other reasons, but the fact that our old pastor allowed that kind of thing was a big disappointment for me.

The problem with non-Lutheran materials is often not so much what they say, but what they don't say. No references to God's blessings given in Baptism, Absolution or the Sacrament, for example. Then there's all the focusing on one's own faith, pietism, moralism, and all that rot.

If these matierials are used in groups at all, there needs to be a very solid Lutheran filter in place.

 

[Resha Caner]

If these matierials are used in groups at all, there needs to be a very solid Lutheran filter in place.

I agree that would be a good idea. I belong to a large congregation, so it's not that the pastors aren't doing anything. There's just a lot to do. I think we have a lot of members involved in outside Bible Studies, and I also think that many of them don't think it really matters.

One could take the position that confessional views are communicated just by the normal practice of worshipping and teaching - that focusing on trying to do more to emphasize confessional views could cause problems. But, on the flip side, it doesn't seem like this should be ignored either.

That's why I'm trying to understand the right balance. How much and how often should those views that distinguish the Lutheran church be emphasized?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My former Congregation, now disbanded, disbanded as a result of members participating in Bible Studies hosted by other (mostly liberal ND) congregations. They demanded women elders, they demanded open communion, they demanded "reformed praise music", they demanded abandoning the Liturgy. Of the 100 or so members that were on the roll (about 20 average attendance per Sunday", only 16 transferred to other LCC congregations; the rest requested release from membership, however a few demanded transfers to the Baptist and and couple ND churches.

Steer clear of Non Confessional Crap, it will infect one's soul if one is weak in faith to start with.

 

[cerette]

My former Congregation, now disbanded, disbanded as a result of members participating in Bible Studies hosted by other (mostly liberal ND) congregations. They demanded women elders, they demanded open communion, they demanded "reformed praise music", they demanded abandoning the Liturgy. Of the 100 or so members that were on the roll (about 20 average attendance per Sunday", only 16 transferred to other LCC congregations; the rest requested release from membership, however a few demanded transfers to the Baptist and and couple ND churches.

Steer clear of Non Confessional Crap, it will infect one's soul if one is weak in faith to start with.

Shocking and sad.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Shocking and sad.

It is, but it is true.

 

[MNKeith]

A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

 

[Shane R]

There is something to be said for smaller congregations; a pastor can keep his finger firmly on the pulse. Research typically suggests that 150 is about as large as a body can be while maintaining close relationships. In my experience the churches that become most quickly infected are the larger churches.

This issue was the problem that drove me from my last LCMS church. Most of the membership was really more Evangelical than confessional. Teaching a class with confessional resources was almost shocking and definitely not popular. Finally, the under-current of Evangelicalism took such hold that the liturgy was essentially gutted except for the occasional 'traditional' service.

Liturgy is the bedrock of the service. It expresses a life of prayer that has served the church through many generations. Even when the pastor is poorly spoken or ill prepared the liturgy holds the service together. It is the work of the people, a savory incense rising before God.