How many would be lost without..

[sunlover1]

Now here is one who would be lost without the church. Could you at least vote No on the poll for us.?

Oops sorry, I forgot to vote too.
My answer is yes I can be a believer without a church.
Obviously as a believer we are a part of 'the" church automatically.

 

[visionary]

Oops sorry, I forgot to vote too.
My answer is yes I can be a believer without a church.
Obviously as a believer we are a part of 'the" church automatically.

I agree

 

[visionary]

We can pray anywhere. Christians prayed in the arenas of Rome and Carthage. They prayed in Piteşti prison. They prayed in Dachau. One of the most touching and beautiful prayers that I have read was penned by a priest awaiting death in a Siberian work camp.

Questions like this make me a little sad. Would I be lost without my parish? Yes. We are all very close and they are like my family. Isn't that the way it is supposed to be?

You would be surprised at some who are so caught up in the group setting that the purpose can get lost. Yeshua came to his own and they received Him not because they did not recognise Him. It is a syndrome or condition that concerns me and hence the thread..

John 1:11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 

[visionary]

And your point is?

You would have first clarify the who, what, where, and why the "lost" feeling you would get from being separated from the "church" before I could even make a point.

 

[cobweb]

You would have first clarify the who, what, where, and why the "lost" feeling you would get from being separated from the "church" before I could even make a point.

...and to do that I would have to debate the Sacraments with you. That is the only topic I refuse to debate in GT, so I am afraid I'll just have to leave it at that.

 

[visionary]

...and to do that I would have to debate the Sacraments with you. That is the only topic I refuse to debate in GT, so I am afraid I'll just have to leave it at that.

I understand the attachment and lack of desire to explain the feeling. At least you are aware of the sense of "loss" without it. May the Lord bless you with a closer walk with Him.

 

[Jakihe]

Everyone who claims the Church is a clutch admits that they had a problem walking spiritually, psychologically, emotionally, socially, or other, because a crutch is used to help those who have a problem walking.

No, they're saying they needed a church in their walk, as you are saying you do. Aid in something is not a bad thing if it helps you.

Everyone who claims they enjoy the Body of Christ, yet not the Church, are ignorant of the Scriptures, for God tells us the Body of His Son is the Church. How? Matrimony, wherein two become one.

Christ's 'church' is not a building with leaders and members. His church IS those who follow and abide in him.

Yet many Christians deny this, claiming it to be but the opinion of some men, as they are ignorant of Tradition, just as many Jews are ignorant of Jewish Tradition, claiming it to be but some opinion.

No, it's not an opinion but what The Bible says it is.

Without the Church, Christians would not be members of the Body of Christ,
Christians ARE the CHURCH, the building is not Christ's church
for Christ would have no Bride, and so no children to produce; yet as He is God in the flesh and from His Side has come the New Eve, so we have the Church, and she is necessary for Christianity.




But those who reject doctrine unravel the doctrines of Christ, peeling off the layers of God. For example, when it comes to the doctrine of the Church being Christ's New Eve, they call it but a pious opinion; and from there, later on when they discover Christ had wed Himself to the Church, though they consider her not His Bride, they seek another explanation, such as saying the New Eve is Eve reincarnated or that the Church is two women.

Doctrine is man-made. The Gospel of Christ is God-made.

 

[visionary]

Doctrine is man-made. The Gospel of Christ is God-made.

So you have found a life in Him outside of the man-made doctrines [tradition] May God continue to bless you in your spiritual walk with Him. Reminds me of the footprints in the sand... He carries me through it all.

 

[Sojourner1]

Mod Hat On​

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Thread has been moved from General Theology to Ecclesiology.


Mod Hat Off​

 

[visionary]

We will see how many wander into this section of the forum to discuss this further.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

"Can I be a believer without a church?"

---A believer in what? One's self?-- surely you may.

Now, if one is speaking as if one can be a follower of Christ without a Church, then I would reply: "no."

Hence, I voted "No."

I need the Holy Mysteries, Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition [my soul needs these most especially].

God gives me and all Catholics [who present no impediments to God's grace] ---his Holy Grace through the Holy Mysteries and through His Holy Catholic Church; I cannot reject His grace. I cannot see being a Christian without the Holy Mysteries, Holy Tradition or Sacred Scripture [which is an inseparable part of Holy Tradition]; they are an inseparable part of God's Church and my spiritual life, without which, I might as well not even be a Christian.

For if I am to reject them, then I have not got any business remaining or even being a Christian. Hence, I do not reject or abjure what God's holy grace has shown me and used to preserve me in a state of Grace and friendship with Him.

 

[visionary]

---A believer in what? One's self?-- surely you may.

Now, if one is speaking as if one can be a follower of Christ without a Church, then I would reply: "no."

Hence, I voted "No."

I need the Holy Mysteries, Sacred Scripture and Holy Tradition [my soul needs these most especially].

God gives me and all Catholics [who present no impediments to God's grace] ---his Holy Grace through the Holy Mysteries and through His Holy Catholic Church; I cannot reject His grace. I cannot see being a Christian without the Holy Mysteries, Holy Tradition or Sacred Scripture [which is an inseparable part of Holy Tradition]; they are an inseparable part of God's Church and my spiritual life, without which, I might as well not even be a Christian.

For if I am to reject them, then I have not got any business remaining or even being a Christian. Hence, I do not reject or abjure what God's holy grace has shown me and used to preserve me in a state of Grace and friendship with Him.

You voted correctly then.

 

[Hairy Tic]

the church because it defines who they are as Christians? because it is their only source of spiritual thought? because it is the thought of being without a church is to them the same thing as being without Christ?

## Probably everyone.

 

[visionary]

Not everyone.. or we would not have reformers through out the ages who step forward and out the door of the church they were raised, taught in and learned all their doctrines. As the reformers state, it was the convictions that God gave them when studying His Word that constrained them to step forward and speak up contrary to their church teachings and preach "new" light that they received from God.. So it is today, with believers feeling called out by God to stand on the Word of God in the face of some traditional understandings of the church they were taught and were part of its body.. until God weaned them with meater portions of the Word.