How many times has the Holy Father spoken ex cathedra?

[SecretOfFatima]

How many times has the Holy Father spoken ex cathedra?

 

[prodromos]

It is my understanding that each time the Pope canonizes someone as a saint, qualifies as an ex-cathedra statement according to the Catholic definition. It is not a dogma I accept though.

John

 

[helenofbritain]

2 I think.... Assumption (1950) and some other one I can't remember

 

[Assisi]

2 I think.... Assumption (1950) and some other one I can't remember

Immaculate Conception in the 1800's??

I don't know whether canonisations are ex cathedra, but they aren't like declarations on teaching because they are not about faith and morals.

Infallibility extends to more than just just ex cathedra statements though.

 

[David333]

In 2000 years of Christendom, the Pope has only needed to speak ex cathedra twice - both times regarding the doctrine of Mary. That's the dogma, although I just don't understand why the doctrine of the Pope's infallibility doesn't pass backwards and we don't apply it to previous statements made by previous Popes. Were they not infallible before...?

 

[YourBrotherInChrist]

For one opinion, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility#Instances_of_papal_infallibility

 

[QuantaCura]

There's a lot. Too many to count really. At the First Vatican Council when they were debating how to formulate the conditions for papal infallibility, some bishops wanted to say that the pope had to take certain procedures and use certain formulas for words, but the relator said this was not possible because there had been "thousands and thousands" of instances and the popes followed no specific formula or procedure for all those instances. From the context, it was clear that he was using some hyperbole, but the point remained--contrary to a very popular misconception, it has been used much more than twice.

What the phrase "ex cathedra" means is that the Pope is formally addressing the entire Church and giving a binding and definitive judgment.

Here's a good explanation of papal infallibility and the phrase ex cathedra (or in cathedra as the case may be) by St. Francis de Sales written about 200 years before the Immaculate Conception was definitively proclaimed (that enough shows it was not the first).

http://www.angelfire.com/ms/seanie/papacy/fds_pope14.html

Basically, when the Pope is making some judgment of doctrine that must be held (tenenda) or believed (credenda/dogma) by the universal Church, the Holy Spirit makes sure that he confirms the truth for the brethren (there's an important point here--not all instances of papal infallibility are dogmatic definitions).

Finally, it also bears pointing out that his infallibility is also engaged in the condemnation of particular errors which are also binding doctrinal judgments.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

How many times has the Holy Father spoken ex cathedra?

There have been exactly two excathedra statements by popes. The rest of the infallible declarations are from the Ecumenical Councils and the Magisterium.

 

[Snowbunny]

papal infallibility has been used seven times, twice ex cathedra

 

[QuantaCura]

There have been exactly two excathedra statements by popes. The rest of the infallible declarations are from the Ecumenical Councils and the Magisterium.

That's not true. Read the link above. St. Francis de Sales explains the concept well before those instances. He explains it well. You also should read some of the acts of the First Vatican Council (relatios, debates, etc.). They didn't base their definition on one example, that would be absurd--in fact it was based on many, many examples--far more than two or seven it appears there.

 

[QuantaCura]

papal infallibility has been used seven times, twice ex cathedra

Papal infallibility can only be ex cathedra. You can't have some be it and some not--ex cathedra is a necessary element of papal infallibility.

 

[Snowbunny]

Papal infallibility can only be ex cathedra. You can't have some be it and some not--ex cathedra is a necessary element of papal infallibility.

i was trying to draw a distinction between when previous popes have spoken ex cathedra in the presence of a council and when it was just them by themselves.

 

[QuantaCura]

i was trying to draw a distinction between when previous popes have spoken ex cathedra in the presence of a council and when it was just them by themselves.

I'm not sure where you're getting this distinction--apart from a Council a Pope has given definitive judgments on doctrines many, many more times than twice. As the Second Vatican Council noted, such infallible judgments by the Pope are rightly called "irreformable." Such expressly irreformable judgments have been issued from the Apostolic See quite often from the earliest times of the Church.

 

[Snowbunny]

I'm not sure where you're getting this distinction--apart from a Council a Pope has given definitive judgments on doctrines many, many more times than twice. As the Second Vatican Council noted, such infallible judgments by the Pope are rightly called "irreformable." Such expressly irreformable judgments have been issued from the Apostolic See quite often from the earliest times of the Church.

hola,

evidently i am wrong

que Dios te bendiga

 

[QuantaCura]

No big deal--as long as we beleive and hold to what we should it doesn't matter much how we came to know it. This particular is such a point of confusion for Catholics. It was for me too so I set out and really studied this issue and I think I have a decent understanding of it. St. Francis de Sales wrote the best explanation I have seen but his good explanations are divided among different chapters. I think I may set out to synthesize his explanation and that of others and also provide a non-exhaustive list of examples that at least will show that there are many more than the usual suspects.

 

[YourBrotherInChrist]

Basically, when the Pope is making some judgment of doctrine that must be held (tenenda) or believed (credenda/dogma) by the universal Church, the Holy Spirit makes sure that he confirms the truth for the brethren (there's an important point here--not all instances of papal infallibility are dogmatic definitions).

Finally, it also bears pointing out that his infallibility is also engaged in the condemnation of particular errors which are also binding doctrinal judgments.

It can be tricky to tell whether something is ex cathedra based on this description. For example, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis would seem to fall under this description ("this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful"), yet we know directly from the Church's magisterium that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is not ex cathedra.

 

[prodromos]

Basically, when the Pope is making some judgment of doctrine that must be held (tenenda) or believed (credenda/dogma) by the universal Church, the Holy Spirit makes sure that he confirms the truth for the brethren (there's an important point here--not all instances of papal infallibility are dogmatic definitions).

Which is exactly why declaring someone to be a saint falls under the umbrella of "ex cathedra" statements. Pope John Paul II made many such statements.

John

 

[Catholic Christian]

How many times has the Holy Father spoken ex cathedra?

Not many. The last one was in 1950, in a document entitled "Munificentissimus Deus", when Pope Pius XII solemnly defined the dogma of the Assumption. However, Cardinal Ratzinger, when asked by the American Bishop's whether or not John Paul II's statements about women's ordination were to be considered Dei Fide, Ratizinger basically said "Yes". Perhaps the Holy Father will clarify that statement soon.

Also, Canonizations are infallible pronouncements, something overlooked by many because they do not address Doctrine.

Keep on the look out for Mary being defined as "Co-Mediatrix" - a soon-to-come excersise in Papal Infallibility (although how soon, I don't know. Could be years.)

 

[WarriorAngel]

Declaring someone a heretic [way back when] is speaking on behalf of the whole Church, so yea, I am inclined to agree with ST Francis.

I have to check out the link.

 

[QuantaCura]

Which is exactly why declaring someone to be a saint falls under the umbrella of "ex cathedra" statements. Pope John Paul II made many such statements.

John

That is correct. Here is what the Congregation for the Causes of Saints says:

"Canonization is the supreme glorification by the Church of a Servant of God raised to the honours of the altar with a decree declared definitive and preceptive for the whole Church, involving the solemn Magisterium of the Roman Pontiff."
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...s_doc_20050929_saraiva-martins-beatif_en.html