How Many Of You Are Telling The Truth ...?

[onemessiah]

Me thinks you should get off the shellfish eaters example, since the NT tells us that no food is bad. I can get that scripture if you need me too?

Now it does say that if you think it is bad/sin then for you it would be a sin to eat shellfish, and it would be bad/sin for me, if knowing that, I would eat shellfish in front of you. So if we are ever together eating please be sure I know you are there and that you consider shellfish eating a sin, because I wouldn't want to do anything to make a person stumble.

You probably won't have to worry though, because I don't really like shellfish, but my husband does and I know he wouldn't want to be a stumbling block either. So please be sure if you are out eating that you make your brothers/sisters aware of your belief on shellfish.

If you have problems with mixed fabrics please let us know also, because most brothers/sister, that I know, wouldn't want to be a strumbling block in anyway.

God Bless.

How can you not like shellfish?
(rhetorical question, don't feel like pointing out that Jesus indicated otherwise)

 

[onemessiah]

Fundamentalists, maybe. Please don't confuse regular Christians with that bunch. George W. Bush is not one; heck, he was raised Episcopalian. He just became an expert on schmoozing them during his father's 1988 campaign.

Allow me to clarify....I made sure to include the word "most" because I know too many loving, REAL christians who are sickened at the hypocrisy and filth to pigeonhole all of you.
There are quite a few of you on this board, you included, who use the bible in the proper perspective and make it a religion I wouldn't hide from my three sons.

 

[Iefan]

They do not learn to hate those who eat shell fish, work on the Sabbath, or charge interese[sp] on loans.

The other stuff's been mentioned, so I just wanted to point out that most people do actually hate bankers.

The point of the OP IS that many Christians LIE (or don't 'fess up' to) about their reasons - which THEY claim are scriptural - for condemning homosexuality. Grammar and spelling aside, do you have any thoughts on this? If you had read the post you would realize that it has little or nothing to do with the tired argument about removing the log in one's eye.

LIE assumes actively knowing. Many just never take that red pill.

Still, it's refreshing to see a pseudo-intellectual argument based around a practice, rather than scripture. Still sucks, but you know what I mean.

Fundamentalists, maybe. Please don't confuse regular Christians with that bunch.

No, there are a lot of fundamentalists, and general moron Christians. I would say that they easily outnumber the rest of us by probably 2:1 or more.

 

[onemessiah]

As well as getting off LGBTs because the concept to love another physically of the same gender being sinful is obviously a primitive social construct just like the ban on scrimps and Ban-Lon.

Religious folks do their version of what we call in the therapeutic community "an intervention" such as confronting an alcoholic and changing family dynamics which previously indulged such a one, and it is appropriate in such cases. However, it is NEVER appropriate toward an LGBT person if addressing that individual's sexuality. Now, promiscuity, regardless of orientation, okay. They intervene on that in the MCC (Metropolitan Community Church, a mostly LGBT Pentecostal denomination).

ticket to San Fransico- $995.00
spandex bicycle shorts- $12.95
Reality check on smug christian- Priceless!

 

[onemessiah]

The point of the OP is that the huge majority of Christians would dislike/disapprove of homosexuals/homosexuality REGARDLESS of what the Bible/God may or may not have to say about the issue. They use the Bible/God merely to support their OWN heart agenda. This is being dishonest. Therefore they are lying. They also unwittingly shoot themselves in the foot when they target homosexuality but blatantly ignore the many scriptures that refer to some very clearly defined commands/abominations/sins unlike those supposedly pertaining to homosexuality. One of those clearly defined abominations is ...um, lying.

As you've already noticed ...our anti-gay brothers and sisters are conspicuous on this thread by their absence.

Oh, I understood the point you were making, but I still disagree.
I think the real issue is that they get so wrapped up in the bible, they forget to get out of it and live in the real world. They get so wrapped up in judging others on God's behalf, they forget who they really are.

 

[AetheriusLamia]

The point of the OP IS that many Christians LIE (or don't 'fess up' to) about their reasons - which THEY claim are scriptural - for condemning homosexuality. ... do you have any thoughts on this?

I don't think it is as complex or psychological as all that. As someone else has stated, I think the majority of Christians actually believe what they say, those who say that homosexual actions are wicked, and that people who choose to engage in them are correspondingly wicked.

I don't know why God made us like this, but people are very easily led. There is a reason "sodomy" means anal sex today, despite the fact that homosexuality, if it was a problem in Sodom, was only the tip of the iceberg, or an illustrated straw that broke the camel's back. Quite simply, all it takes is someone who isn't very clever to read parts of the Bible, and then for that person to lead a large group. People actually believe Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexual actions (and thus because of the homosexuals who did them), because that is what they were taught by their teachers. I was taught it as a child, and I believed it until I actually read the Bible for myself.

I think to call someone a liar is a very dangerous thing; often it requires assumptions about what he thinks, and I think such assumptions are foolish.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I don't think it is as complex or psychological as all that. As someone else has stated, I think the majority of Christians actually believe what they say, those who say that homosexual actions are wicked, and that people who choose to engage in them are correspondingly wicked.

I don't know why God made us like this, but people are very easily led. There is a reason "sodomy" means anal sex today, despite the fact that homosexuality, if it was a problem in Sodom, was only the tip of the iceberg, or an illustrated straw that broke the camel's back. Quite simply, all it takes is someone who isn't very clever to read parts of the Bible, and then for that person to lead a large group. People actually believe Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexual actions (and thus because of the homosexuals who did them), because that is what they were taught by their teachers. I was taught it as a child, and I believed it until I actually read the Bible for myself.

I think to call someone a liar is a very dangerous thing; often it requires assumptions about what he thinks, and I think such assumptions are foolish.

I will not say all fundamentalist Christians who attack homosexuals are liars when they claim they are motivated solely because "the BIIII-BBBLE says it is wrong". I will say the leaders of the religious right, cynical political manipulators all, are liars because by and large these are highly educated people who know better. I will say of the remainder that those which are not lying are massively suffering from cognitive dissonance. Like the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland they have determined to believe in ten impossible things each day before breakfast.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Well, what would you call it then? Love?

Obedience to God.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I will not say all fundamentalist Christians who attack homosexuals are liars when they claim they are motivated solely because "the BIIII-BBBLE says it is wrong". I will say the leaders of the religious right, cynical political manipulators all, are liars because by and large these are highly educated people who know better. I will say of the remainder that those which are not lying are massively suffering from cognitive dissonance. Like the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland they have determined to believe in ten impossible things each day before breakfast.

Because they do not adhere to your scriptural interpretation? That they believe it? Are you serious?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Obedience to God.

An Evil god who would harm his children in this manner deserves nothing but defiance and contempt.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Because they do not adhere to your scriptural interpretation? That they believe it? Are you serious?

I am as serious as cancer. Please do not mock those with whom you disagree to mask your lack of an argument.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I am as serious as cancer. Please do not mock those with whom you disagree to mask your lack of an argument.

Mocking? What? What lack of an argument? The scriptures are THERE. "Defying" God will.. only result in death.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Questing the 'seriousness' of a post in feigned shock.

You assume too much.

If such is true then death is the fate of all persons of integrity and then the only ones in a hebbin with their evil god are the corrupt.

Who is good but God? This is foolishness.

"Scriptures" which harm people are the work of evil religionists and-or an evil god and to be disregarded as the filth they are.

Evil religionists, huh?

 

[onemessiah]

Obedience to God.

Okay, I can accept that as a sincere answer.

But my implication previously was that the gays are being treated hatefully, so why be surprised when people call it as such.

Also, see TL response above....
an entity like that isn't god, it's a monster.


*Btw, take a look at my signature. What are your thoughts on it?

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Okay, I can accept that as a sincere answer.

But my implication previously was that the gays are being treated hatefully, so why be surprised when people call it as such.

Also, see TL response above....
an entity like that isn't god, it's a monster.


*Btw, take a look at my signature. What are your thoughts on it?

I don't call treating anyone hatefully as love. Saying sin is sin is not hate. One does not have to include the other. I missed your implication I guess.
You can't please every sinful being, if it's not condemning homosexuality, it's abortion, an evil entity taking away women's "freedom with their bodies" or whatever to "dispose of parasites"..

I understand your signature, but we are to love God first, and neighbor second. This...is where you cannot have the first without the second.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Who is good but God?

Precisely why God would never reject his LGBT children. Thank you.

 

[savedandhappy1]

As well as getting off LGBTs because the concept to love another physically of the same gender being sinful is obviously a primitive social construct just like the ban on scrimps and Ban-Lon.

Religious folks do their version of what we call in the therapeutic community "an intervention" such as confronting an alcoholic and changing family dynamics which previously indulged such a one, and it is appropriate in such cases. However, it is NEVER appropriate toward an LGBT person if addressing that individual's sexuality. Now, promiscuity, regardless of orientation, okay. They intervene on that in the MCC (Metropolitan Community Church, a mostly LGBT Pentecostal denomination).

Primitive socal construct, hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I never thought of God, Jesus and/or the Holy Ghost as primitive.

This I guess is kind of like how some want the church to change because people and issues have changed, which would probably be ok if it wasn't for the fact that we are told He doesn't change.

Religious people...................................... don't even like that term, because the only thing I am is a child of God who is trying her best to follow His word and His ways.

I do know a few religious people, and I pray that their eyes will be open to the wonderful relationship that can be had by surrendering to the Lord.

I am not real sure why people who disagree think that name calling and trying to slander someone by telling lies about people they don't really know has to happen, but alas it seems to have to be.

Calling someone a liar, hater, bigot, religious person, fundamenalist, conservative because they understand the Bible to be clear on the issue of homosexuality, and believe it to be a sin is ................................................well it seems childish to me. That is just me though, and hopefully someone will be able to tell me one of these days how those names have anything to do with what the Lord calls a sin.

They maybe could tell me at the same time how not wanting someone to go to hell is hateful? Now, to me it would be hateful if I was saying they should be sent to hell, but I guess I must have the meanings of love and hate backwards or something.

Jesus loves us all and I never once saw Him tell someone it was ok to keep sinning, but told them to go and send no more. There are scriptures that tell us to confront those who are not following sound doctrine. Some have already been posted in this thread I think, so I guess someone needs to tell me where God changed His mind on us trying to bring a fallen person back to the truth. They need to show me where we aren't suppose to follow the Great Commission anymore. If someone could also show me where love means closing our eyes and our mouths to things that can lead others astray and to hell, that could be helpful also.

So what does love mean to you? If you could show me, from the Bible, why you think that is what it means................ well that could be very helpful in my attempt to understand.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Only fundies use scripture! Or something like that..

Precisely why God would never reject his LGBT children. Thank you.

I will not disagree with that. But who is rejecting who?

 

[savedandhappy1]

How can you not like shellfish?
(rhetorical question, don't feel like pointing out that Jesus indicated otherwise)

Please give the scripture where Jesus said that shellfish.....................well not real sure what you are trying to say that Jesus indicated otherwise on, sorry.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Oh, I understood the point you were making, but I still disagree.
I think the real issue is that they get so wrapped up in the bible, they forget to get out of it and live in the real world. They get so wrapped up in judging others on God's behalf, they forget who they really are.

So who are we really in your opinion? Are we not Children of God, and as such are we not to follow His word?

When you say to get out of the Bible and live in the real world..................could you maybe speak alittle more to what you are meaning?

We are told that we are in this world but we aren't to be part of it, so I was just wondering what you were for sure meaning by that statement. I have listed a few scriptures which speak to our relationship to the world, some spoken by the Lord, and was wondering what your thoughts on them are? Thanks!

John 14:19-24
19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

John 17:6-19
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.

Romans 12:1-2
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

1 John 5:18-21
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.