How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[Hammster]

How many heard the gospel before the time of Abraham? Does that mean God left out those people from the gospel?

Do you mean how many didn’t hear?

 

[BBAS 64]

Where do you get the idea that it is the knowledge that is been taken away?

Good day,

Right in the text:

To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, (but) to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, (but) from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables


Remember the question: "Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” "

The ones given... get more knowledge
The one not given have it taken away

That is why he speaks to them in parables.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Grafted In]

None.

 

[zoidar]

Good day,

Right in the text:

To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, (but) to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, (but) from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables


Remember the question: "Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” "

The ones given... get more knowledge
The one not given have it taken away

That is why he speaks to them in parables.

In Him,

Bill

Not sure what you are saying. The one not given knowledge has his knowledge taken away?

 

[BBAS 64]

Not sure what you are saying. The one not given knowledge has his knowledge taken away?

Good day, Zoidar

Yes...

That is why he speaks to them in parables.

 

[zoidar]

Good day, Zoidar

Yes...

That is why he speaks to them in parables.

How is that logical? Knowledge they don't have is taken away.

 

[Hammster]

I don't understand your reasoning or why it would be so.


We should agree that "trying to save" and "wanting to save" are different things in language. If we don't use the language the same way there is no possibility to have a discussion. Or we have to start with discussing what you mean by "trying" and "wanting".


What was your point? I showed you your claim was wrong: "This means that everyone else wasn’t chosen." Of course God had a chosen people, and obviously only Israel was God's chosen people. But that was not only concerning salvation in the sense that only Israel would be saved and no other people. For an example what about the people of Nineveh?

The same as with the Canaanite woman. She was not of the chosen people Israel Jesus came to save. Yet he healed her anyway.

But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, “Lord, help me!” And He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” But she said, “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” Then Jesus said to her, “O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish.” And her daughter was healed at once.
— Matthew 15:24-28


No, you have given a possible understanding of Titus 2:1-12 which doesn't fit 1 Timothy 2:1-6 very well. Most scholars also disagree with you

Different thread.

 

[BBAS 64]

How is that logical? Knowledge they don't have is taken away.

Good Day, Zoidar

They are not given it does not mean they have not acquired any on their own....

To do think a hardened atheist can read Scripture and acquire some knowledge about God?

What is your take on the text: from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables

In Him,

Bill

 

[zoidar]

Different thread.

The other one got closed. I figured you were willing to answer her. I deleted the post. God bless!

 

[Hammster]

The other one got closed. I figured you were willing to answer her. I deleted the post. God bless!

There is post 221, though.

 

[zoidar]

There is post 221, though.

Do you mean how many didn’t hear?

I think you know what I mean. No one knew the gospel at that time. Does that mean God leave them out from the gospel?

 

[Hammster]

I think you know what I mean.

No, which is why I asked.

No one knew the gospel at that time. Does that mean God leave them out from the gospel?

I think a lot of people knew the gospel before Abraham. But I also think there were a lot of people, probably even more people, who hadn’t heard the gospel at that time and yes, God did leave them out.

 

[zoidar]

No, which is why I asked.


I think a lot of people knew the gospel before Abraham. But I also think there were a lot of people, probably even more people, who hadn’t heard the gospel at that time and yes, God did leave them out.

What gospel saved Noah? I think he was saved because he was a righteous man who believed in God, not through a belief in a future Messiah, which I hardly believe he knew about. He didn't as far as I know have the gospel, and still wasn't left out.

See also the people of Nineveh. Did they have the gospel? They were not even of God's chosen people, but were saved anyhow.

 

[zoidar]

Good Day, Zoidar

They are not given it does not mean they have not acquired any on their own....

To do think a hardened atheist can read Scripture and acquire some knowledge about God?

What is your take on the text: from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables

In Him,

Bill

I think there might be a range of meanings. But I read it this way:

For whoever has (life in a spiritual sense), to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance (eternal life); but whoever does not have (spirititual life), even what he has shall be taken away from him (both what he thinks he has here and life eternal).
— Matthew 13:12

So take care how you listen; for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.”
— Luke 8:18

Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
— Matthew 13:13

I believe Jesus speaks to them in parables because while they have seen his miracles they don't see (believe), because they have shut their eyes (heart). And they don't hear (understand) the parables for the same reason, because they have shut their heart. Jesus speaks in parables so those with open heart will understand.

 

[Hammster]

What gospel saved Noah? I think he was saved because he was a righteous man who believed in God, not through a belief in a future Messiah, which I hardly believe he knew about. He didn't as far as I know have the gospel, and still wasn't left out.

What gospel saved Abraham?

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”
— Galatians 3:8

See also the people of Nineveh. Did they have the gospel? They were not even of God's chosen people, but were saved anyhow.

Then Jonah began to go through the city one day’s walk; and he cried out and said, “Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
— Jonah 3:4

 

[zoidar]

What gospel saved Abraham?

The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”
— Galatians 3:8

Then Jonah began to go through the city one day’s walk; and he cried out and said, “Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”
— Jonah 3:4

The point I'm trying to make is that not having the gospel preached to you doesn't have to mean you are left out. And is certainly not a proof that you are.

But if we go to your OP, many of the people that you say God "left out" had probably heard about Jesus and could seek him up. I'm sure some did. We have the Canaanite woman.

Do you think that the apostles went to every single family in the house of Israel? If not, from your reasoning, God must have left out some of the people of the house of Israel.

 

[Hammster]

The point I'm trying to make is that not having the gospel preached to you doesn't have to mean you are left out. And is certainly not a proof that you are.

But if we go to your OP, many of the people that you say God "left out" had probably heard about Jesus and could seek him up. I'm sure some did. We have the Canaanite woman.

Do you think that the apostles went to every single family in the house of Israel? If not, from your reasoning, God must have left out some of the people of the house of Israel.

Of course He did. And Jesus was clear that He came for the lost sheep of Israel. Never was all of Israel in the picture. John 10 and Romans 9 make that point. Not all Israel is Israel. If so, Jesus was a horrible shepherd who couldn’t save all the sheep in His care.

 

[zoidar]

Of course He did. And Jesus was clear that He came for the lost sheep of Israel. Never was all of Israel in the picture. John 10 and Romans 9 make that point. Not all Israel is Israel. If so, Jesus was a horrible shepherd who couldn’t save all the sheep in His care.

Did Jesus command the twelve to go only to those that would accept the gospel and be saved?

Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd.
— Matthew 9:35-36

 

[Hammster]

Did Jesus command the twelve to go only to those that would accept the gospel and be saved?

Jesus was going through all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Seeing the people, He felt compassion for them, because they were distressed and dispirited like sheep without a shepherd.
— Matthew 9:35-36

I’m not sure how you see this as supporting your point.

 

[zoidar]

I’m not sure how you see this as supporting your point.

If the people are called sheep in Matt 9, not only the elect, why would Jesus limit sheep in Matt 10 to just the elect?