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Precisely.There's a world of difference between naturally occurring events and a deity throwing a temper tantrum.
Of course if Christianity is true then there are probably certain key ideas about Jesus that a Christian comprehends and comes to believe at initiation. The author of 1 John was apparently arguing that accepting Jesus as the Jewish Messiah/Christ was this type of key idea. The acceptance of this idea is a metamorphosis that creates an umbilical cord between the new Christian and Jesus to sustain and guide. There can be changing views and differences of opinion between Christians on trivial issues, but no "true" Christian can ever fall away from Jesus. If a certifiably true Christian can be shown to have fallen away, then Christianity would be shown to be a fraud. Of course from the perspective of believers any examples can be dismissed as phony Christians who only SEEMED to be true Christians.I'm simply saying that what might be considered a True Christian
can be just as able to learn new things and change accordingly.
If they learn and change, that doesn't mean they were never
True Christians (whatever that means; it changes depending on
which sect one asks).
Maybe not a fraud, just not the last rung on what turns out toIf a certifiably true Christian can be shown to have fallen away, then Christianity would be shown to be a fraud.
From the Christian perspective there is only one ladder going to only one destination - the Father. Everybody should want to join the Father and there is only one ladder to get there - Jesus. So how could anybody who knows the destination and knows the ladder want to exchange that for some magic beans? Obviously anybody who does that must not have been a true Christian.Maybe not a fraud, just not the last rung on what turns out to
be a much higher ladder than was realized.
From the Christian perspective there is only one ladder going to only one destination - the Father. Everybody should want to join the Father and there is only one ladder to get there - Jesus. So how could anybody who knows the destination and knows the ladder want to exchange that for some magic beans? Obviously anybody who does that must not have been a true Christian.
Of course from my experience most Christians sometimes question whether they are true Christians and even question whether Christianity itself is true.
Do you think Jesus thought differently of Himself, that He was just another prophet? What about Matt 16:13-17
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He began asking His disciples, saying, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
In my case it is that no other religion besides Christianity has much appeal to me. Atheism seems crummy even if it is true. Maybe it is partly nostalgia for the past. ... Imagine if you decided that the Torah is a hodge-podge of uninspired malarkey. You would feel like a "fish out of water", because the Torah was something you valued for much of your life. You might keep going back to make certain there isn't some way to salvage the Torah, because you would like for it to work again. ... That's how it is for me. ... Also I feel there might be something out there like God, but I am confused about what I need to do in response to that feeling. Christianity had some ideas about God and ideas about how to please God. I don't have that now.But it is strange that exchristians hang around a christian forum,
like taking out a divorce and then knocking on your ex,s door every day.
You say that because you do not see sin as an evil, in the same way a Holy God views sin.There was no flood, but if there was, I still would never honor any deity that would commit planetary genocide; including plants, animals, and children.
What about all those plants and animals?You say that because you do not see sin as an evil, in the same way a Holy God views sin.
All who rebel against God and His holiness hate God. In john 1 it says men love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil.
Life is the Lord's to give and to take, and there is a spirit world and an afterlife so it's hard for us to gauge if those infants feel they were done evil against them, but I'm encouraged to know that you are pro life.
You say that because you do not see sin as an evil, in the same way a Holy God views sin. All who rebel against God and His holiness hate God. In john 1 it says men love darkness rather then light because their deeds are evil.
There is nothing wrong with having a creative interpretation of what you experience, but for Christians to say that they have a relationship with a specific being (which excludes other beings) without proof - such as intelligent conversation - that such experiences come specifically from that being is irrational to me.in my experience... by existing richly and more fully. by paying more attention. prayer and directedness to God rather than busying yourself with less important things which the majority of the world is caught up in for the majority of the time. personal development. through goodness and truth. by noticing the beings that are always around us, but invisible. but I must note that I find myself more and more to be a micro of the macro reality and thus I am a vital part to it and can not know it without being of it. so I don't count myself as only a creature and I don't put as many limits or restraints on myself as most people do.
sorry to butt in more, your words give me things to reflect upon. what's wrong with having a creative interpretation of what you experience? but many will just use their own religious context to frame their experiences.
I wish more people would cut out "authoritarianism" from their concepts of God. it's so annoying that people pretend they are not the truth (when they have united with or have communion with it) and they act like it is something outside themselves, as something alien from them. people want to bend their knee so much that even truth is now something they must obey rather than it being their very life, experience, and understanding. they are captured by ignorance and the sophistry that their discursive experience and lower aspect gives them.
personalism makes expression of God a very personal and real thing. God as an close other is just finding God in someone else united to the Logos who is the fullness of all souls, who is the super-united becoming expression and end-goal of the experiential world, and true salvation. enlightenment is finding you are yourself united to the divine. thus two main experiences with God is an otherness experience and a sameness experience. negation and positive expression.
whatever measure you limit yourself to is the kind of measure you will receive. there are already certain limits in existing as a limited form. I would try to open up more rather than restrict more but maybe both ways are valid paths.
Indeed, there can be no parallel saying, because our end goal - from our perspective - transcends "the Father": "many thousands of deities have gone for refuge for life to the recluse Gotama" Majjhima Nikaya 95.9.Jesus “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." John 14:6
Buddha - No Parallel Saying
Well, that's just it: They thought they knew, and they thought theFrom the Christian perspective there is only one ladder going to only one destination - the Father. Everybody should want to join the Father and there is only one ladder to get there - Jesus. So how could anybody who knows the destination and knows the ladder want to exchange that for some magic beans? Obviously anybody who does that must not have been a true Christian.
Of course from my experience most Christians sometimes question whether they are true Christians and even question whether Christianity itself is true.
Nope. Try again.So it is all about finding fault with something other than
one self.
Absolutely! Though I'm not a monolatrist I picked on Hathor because she's easy to describe. I've worked with other gods in the past.
She loves when others are happy and I hope to make that a goal of my life, to help others be happy while learning more about myself.
When you boil away all the nonsense and baggage that Christians tie to him, I see a god who turns to humanity and says, "I know no one is perfect. I know you'll make bad decisions. But no matter how badly you screw up, if you ask me, and you are sincerely apologetic, I will ultimately forgive you."
That's a message of humility, hope, and redemption. And we're left to think, if god can forgive the worst of us, then maybe we can be a little quicker to forgive each other for the small stuff.
In my case it is that no other religion besides Christianity has much appeal to me. Atheism seems crummy even if it is true. Maybe it is partly nostalgia for the past. ... Imagine if you decided that the Torah is a hodge-podge of uninspired malarkey. You would feel like a "fish out of water", because the Torah was something you valued for much of your life. You might keep going back to make certain there isn't some way to salvage the Torah, because you would like for it to work again. ... That's how it is for me. ... Also I feel there might be something out there like God, but I am confused about what I need to do in response to that feeling. Christianity had some ideas about God and ideas about how to please God. I don't have that now.
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