How many Christians accept evolution, and how many reject it?

[npetreley]

Originally posted by SimpleChristian

The evolutionist puts their faith in things which they believe have been accurately measured (although carbon dating has been known to date a hat from 1910 as 10 million years old, etc) and seen and they put their faith in hypothesis that can never really be proven correct (or incorrect for that matter).

Both creationism and evolution are faith-based systems of beliefs on the topic of how we all got here. However, only creationism can answer the more important question: why are we here......

Right in principle. Wrong in data. Carbon dating can't give you an age of 10 million years.

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by npetreley
Right in principle. Wrong in data.

Story of your life, yes?

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by npetreley

ROFL! You have no flippin idea WHAT I think the correct percentages may be, so why do you even think I'm emotionally comfortable with anything at all, let alone something contrary to what you've stated?

Simple! I've watched you in this debate for a long time, and you've never once reacted in a non-emotional way to a piece of evidence.

Because that's not what you're all about. Your evidence for your figures comes from exactly the same place as your evidence for evolution. You made up your information probably based on something you heard somewhere, and can't support it.

Really? That's odd. I guess I must have made up the way that the joints in just about every land animal are the same, even though the joints are horrifically inefficient for the bipeds. Certainly, I couldn't have observed it in nature.

You can argue whether or not you accept the argument, but it is flat out dishonest of you to claim that the *evidence* was made up. The *interpretation*, you can debate; to debate the evidence itself requires dishonesty.

Here, I'll spell it out for you so you won't be confused by big words: You ain't got a clue.

Really? So, tell us honestly, Nick: What percentage of Christians, worldwide, do you really think accept evolution? What would you consider "valid" evidence?

It says a lot about you that you've never admitted to *ANY* possibile evidence that you'd accept. That would be science, and science is scary to you, because it doesn't always come up with the right answers.

So, you sit back and say "nope, ain't seen any evidence", and *NO MATTER WHAT* anyone shows, you'll just argue that it's not evidence. God Himself could write up an explanation of the reasons to accept this theory, and if you didn't know He wrote it, you'd say it was lies.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by SimpleChristian

Both creationism and evolution are faith-based systems of beliefs on the topic of how we all got here. However, only creationism can answer the more important question: why are we here......

That's odd. I'm pretty much convinced by the evidence that evolution is the "how"... and I still find that I have a very good answer for "why", which is "because God wanted someone to show His work to".

I don't see these as incompatible. The claim that they are incompatible is a carefully crafted lie to drive people from God, by confronting them with evidence that part of their faith is false.

If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out.

If an obvious falsehood has crept into your belief system, throw it out; it is better to believe only truth, even if it makes the world a little more complicated, or a little bigger, or a little scarier.

 

[Plan 9]

I don't see these as incompatible either...

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by Plan 9
I don't see these as incompatible either...

Hi Plan. I started a thread a while back pointing out that the term "creationist" used to identify people who deny evolution was excluding quite a few people who believe in creation. I'm glad to see that you are here to change that stereotype that some creationists are propagating.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Plan 9
I don't see these as incompatible either...

Get ready to be told that you're not a *REAL* Christian. It gets tiresome after a while, but there's nothing we can do, but keep speaking up for the truth, as God directed us to do.

 

[Plan 9]

Thanks, Jerry! I'm a little confused as to why Theistic evolutionists are so often left out of the equation...we must have a place, I think; there really are a lot of us around...

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by Plan 9
Thanks, Jerry! I'm a little confused as to why Theistic evolutionists are so often left out of the equation...we must have a place, I think; there really are a lot of us around...

Nobody likes compromiser, it would seem...

 

[Plan 9]

Originally posted by seebs


Get ready to be told that you're not a *REAL* Christian. It gets tiresome after a while, but there's nothing we can do, but keep speaking up for the truth, as God directed us to do.

I'm kinda used to being told that. lol Nonetheless, I am and most Christians endure me patiently...(although I know that some of them are thinking, "I wish she'd get off my side!)  

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by Plan 9


I'm kinda used to being told that. lol Nonetheless, I am and most Christians endure me patiently...(although I know that some of them are thinking, "I wish she'd get off my side!)  

Speaking for those who value science, I can say we are glad to have you on our side

 

[Plan 9]

That's very kind of you, Jerry. I do value science very much. It's an exciting endeavor, in which Christians used to be at the forefront.

 

[Plan 9]

Originally posted by Raging Atheist


Nobody likes compromiser, it would seem...

I didn't see it as a compromise at the time, Raging. (May I call you by your first name?) I just think that C.S.Lewis and some other writers make a lot of sense on the subject...I didn't even know that this sort of debate was going on until later.  

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by Plan 9


I didn't see it as a compromise at the time, Raging. (May I call you by your first name?) I just think that C.S.Lewis and some other writers make a lot of sense on the subject...I didn't even know that this sort of debate was going on until later.  

sure, that works... Raging... RA... Heathen... I respond to most anything...

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by seebs

You can argue whether or not you accept the argument, but it is flat out dishonest of you to claim that the *evidence* was made up.

So if it isn't made up, then stop changing the subject and cite your source. Where's the data that supports your conclusions about how many Christians believe evolution and creation in this country and others? If you can't present the data, then admit you don't have any and stop blowing smoke. Put up or shut up.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by seebs

Get ready to be told that you're not a *REAL* Christian. It gets tiresome after a while, but there's nothing we can do, but keep speaking up for the truth, as God directed us to do.

Hmmm....funny how my prediction that everyone would pounce with ad-hominems in the "Creation evidence" thread was fulfilled quickly and repeatedly. But I still haven't seen anyone say anything about not being a *REAL* Christian.

But heck, you guys can imagine connections between fossils, I'm sure you can come up with a reasonable explanation...

 

[Raging Atheist]

Originally posted by npetreley


Hmmm....funny how my prediction that everyone would pounce with ad-hominems in the "Creation evidence" thread was fulfilled quickly and repeatedly. But I still haven't seen anyone say anything about not being a *REAL* Christian.

But heck, you guys can imagine connections between fossils, I'm sure you can come up with a reasonable explanation...

I would say you held off so that you could assume what in your mind is moral high ground and then make that post... but Im just theorizing here...

 

[D. Scarlatti]

Originally posted by npetreley
Hmmm....funny how my prediction that everyone would pounce with ad-hominems in the "Creation evidence" thread was fulfilled quickly and repeatedly.

Yes, great prophecy fulfilled. It would have been only slightly more convincing if you happened to know what an ad hominem is.

 

[Jerry Smith]

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

from http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Now, the point that we have all been making is that Hovind is known to be dishonest and that therefore his facts are not trustworthy. He can't be relied upon to accurately portray the facts, so we need not even consider the arguments he makes based on them. In this case, Hovind's character does bear strongly on the truth or falsity of the claims he makes, so while it may be ad hominem, our response to him is not fallacious.

Furthermore, I have asked Shimon to quote the "evidence" he thinks is reliable from Hovinds cite so that we can actually consider his arguments too.

 

[TScott]

As to the question posed on this thread, I'm not able to find any polling data from Gallup based on the religion of the respondents, However in 1991 they did a poll of Americans in which 47% of the respondents said that they believed God created man in his present form within the last 10,000 years. 40% said they believed man evolved over millions of years, but that God guided the whole process, including man's creation. 9% said they believed man has evolved without the help of God. In 1997 the results to the same questions were 44%, 39%, and 10%, respectively. It should also be noted that in the '97 poll people with science degrees (engineering included), polled 5%, 40% and 55% respectively to the same questions.



Compare this to a poll conducted in Britain among Anglican bishops, Catholic priests and Protestant ministers of which 97% did not believe the world was created in 6 days, and 80% did not believe in the existence of Adam and Eve. (On edit: Source for this poll is the December 1999 issue of Religion Today.)

There have been polls on websites, but of course these type of polls do not offer reliable trending data.