How many agree with this

[TraderJack]

So what God do they worship?

Who does Jesus say is the Pharisees god:

John 8

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with[l] your father.”
39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”
Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? 47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”


Before Abraham Was, I AM




48 Then the Jews answered and said to Him, “Do we not say rightly that You are a Samaritan and have a demon?”
49 Jesus answered, “I do not have a demon; but I honor My Father, and you dishonor Me. 50 And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges. 51 Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.”
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[m] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

What I hear coming from you is the vain philosophy of the postmodernist era of relativism in opposition to the Word of God.

 

[TraderJack]

May God help all the heretical Calvinists who worship an evil God.

What God is that?

Tell us, what God do Calvinists worship?

Make your case.

You know what, you're right.

There is another God out there and he is evil. That God is obviously the source of your beliefs...

I'm sure God will be pleased to hear that you think the God of Scripture is evil.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who does Jesus say is the Pharisees god:


What I hear coming from you is the vain philosophy of the postmodernist era of relativism in opposition to the Word of God.

Didn't ya ever read this parable in Luke 16?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matt 23:15 "Woe to ye, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! that ye go-about the sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte, and when he becomes/genhtai <1096> (5638), ye make him a son of geennhV <1067> two-fold of-ye-selves.

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life] and Ye [OC Law/Death] a great chasm/casma <5490> hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.
[# 1276 used as ferrying Matt 9:1, 14:34, Mark 5:21, 6:53, Acts 21:2]

 

[TraderJack]

This discussion has reached the point that I have to ask the "any god is the same as any other" side why they think we have a first commandment if their POV is right.

You know what the arguments from the "any god is the same as any other" side brings to mind?

2 Timothy 4:2-4

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

The postmodernists have itching ears and listen to the fables of relativism rather than the truth of sound Biblical doctrine.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You know what the arguments from the "any god is the same as any other" side brings to mind?

2 Timothy 4:2-4

2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

The postmodernists have itching ears and listen to the fables of relativism rather than the truth of sound Biblical doctrine.

The RCC use that passage against us "defective" Christians all the time.

 

[TraderJack]

Why are you now adding the word "genuine" into your statement?

It should be obvious.

Well, I take that back. Nothing is obvious to the relativist with their feet planted firmly in mid-air.

So, I'll make is expressly and explicitly clear.


I said "genuine" worship because any worship of any so called god other than the One, True God of the Holy Scriptures and historic Christian faith is FALSE worship and not genuinely worshipping The One, True God.

You see, as opposed to your worldly philosophy, Jesus said, that to truly worship God, The Father must be worshipped in Spirit AND Truth. Islam or none of those other false gods you so willingly and joyfully support worship truly The God of Scripture and the historic Christian faith.

But that is according to Jesus. I guess He should have checked with you first before making such a bigoted statement.

 

[stumpjumper]

Who does Jesus say is the Pharisees god:

That has nothing to do with worshipping but with following and the reference was in regards to deeds not beliefs.

If you want to follow that methodology, then a Muslim who lives in accordance with the Christian God's will and Christian teachings is worshipping the Christian God though he knows not.

What I hear coming from you is the vain philosophy of the postmodernist era of relativism in opposition to the Word of God.

The "Word of God" is Jesus Christ not the Bible.

What I hear coming from you is idolatry and arrogance.

 

[stumpjumper]

What God is that?

Tell us, what God do Calvinists worship?

Make your case.

I don't believe Calvinists worship a different God.

I stated that to make a point, though.

If you have different beliefs about God than other Christians, are you worshipping different Gods?

By your reasoning, obviously.

I'm sure God will be pleased to hear that you think the God of Scripture is evil.

I think that Calvinists do posit a God who is the author of evil but I think they do so innocently and God will forgive them for that

 

[stumpjumper]

Nobody bothered to address this post so I will ask it again:

How about a Hindu whom you see in meditative prayer? They are giving thanks to God and petitioning God to lead them in this life.

Is the Triune God not listening to this prayer? Is God not aware that this Hiindu is praying and asking to be led from darkness to light and seeking peace?

The Gayatri Mantra:

Lead Us From the Unreal To Real,
Lead Us From Darkness To Light,
Lead Us From Death To Immortality,
Aum (the universal sound of God)
Let There Be Peace Peace Peace.

Is God unaware of the hairs on that Hindu's head?

How is the above worship and prayer not being presented to the only God that exists?

 

[mont974x4]

That has nothing to do with worshipping but with following and the reference was in regards to deeds not beliefs.

If you want to follow that methodology, then a Muslim who lives in accordance with the Christian God's will and Christian teachings is worshipping the Christian God though he knows not.



The "Word of God" is Jesus Christ not the Bible.

What I hear coming from you is idolatry and arrogance.

You accuse us of idolotry and arrogance while you yourself are supporting worshipping false gods as God?

nice

 

[mont974x4]

Nobody bothered to address this post so I will ask it again:

How about a Hindu whom you see in meditative prayer? They are giving thanks to God and petitioning God to lead them in this life.

Is the Triune God not listening to this prayer? Is God not aware that this Hiindu is praying and asking to be led from darkness to light and seeking peace?

The Gayatri Mantra:

Lead Us From the Unreal To Real,
Lead Us From Darkness To Light,
Lead Us From Death To Immortality,
Aum (the universal sound of God)
Let There Be Peace Peace Peace.

Is God unaware of the hairs on that Hindu's head?

How is the above worship and prayer not being presented to the only God that exists?

I answered that a few posts ago, you just refuse to see the truth.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by stumpjumper
Nobody bothered to address this post so I will ask it again:

How about a Hindu whom you see in meditative prayer? They are giving thanks to God and petitioning God to lead them in this life.

Is the Triune God not listening to this prayer? Is God not aware that this Hiindu is praying and asking to be led from darkness to light and seeking peace?

No less than he heard the Indians.

Ezekiel 37:9 Also He saying to me, "Prophesy! to the breath/07307 ruwach. Prophesy!, Son of 'Adam, and you say to the breath/07307 ruwach, 'Thus He says the Lord of me, YHWH: "From Four of Winds/07307 ruwach, come! the Breath/07307 ruwach, and breathe/blow/05301 naphach in the ones slain, the-these and they shall live." ' "

http://www.indians.org/welker/greatspi.htm

"Oh, Great Spirit, whose voice I hear in the wind,

Whose Breath gives life to all the world.
Hear me; I need your strength and wisdom.

O Great Spirit of the North, who gives wings to the waters of the air and rolls the thick snowstorm before Thee,
O Great Spirit of the East, the land of the rising Sun, Who holds in Your right hand the years of our lives
O Great Spirit of the South, whose warm breath of compassion melts the ice that gathers round our hearts,
O Great Spirit of the West, the land of the setting Sun, with Your soaring mountains and free,

 

[stumpjumper]

I answered that a few posts ago, you just refuse to see the truth.

I would just say the same right back to you and add that you fail to see the logical conclusions of claiming to believe in all present God who alone is God.

And, no, you didn't answer that post nor address it...

 

[simonthezealot]

want to try again?

nasb
Exo 32:7 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, "Go down at once, for your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.
Exo 32:8 "They have quickly turned aside from the way which I commanded them. They have made for themselves a molten calf, and have worshiped it and have sacrificed to it and said, 'This is your god, O Israel, who brought you up from the land of Egypt!'"

Mont,
Pretty sure SJ is right on this one the golden calf was their physical representation of God instead of believing by faith in Him that He was a living God. Aaron goes on to suggest setting up a feast to God while speaking of the calf. The calf was YAHWEH.

 

[Trento]

How about a Hindu whom you see in meditative prayer? They are giving thanks to God and petitioning God to lead them in this life.

Is the Triune God not listening to this prayer? Is God not aware that this Hiindu is praying and asking to be led from darkness to light and seeking peace?

Scripture Conformation.

When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. (Rom 2:1-16; interestingly, in these two chapter of Romans St. Paul summarizes Wisdom 13-19)

The ``law unto themselves'' is man's participation in God's eternal law, sometimes known as the natural law. Significantly, St. Paul has not mentioned faith in Christ as a condition for knowledge of this natural law: it is a law knowable by all men without respect to creed. As St. Paul says, it is written on men's hearts, though it can be clouded by sin.


St. Luke, who was a disciple of St. Paul, reports in his gospel the words of Jesus:

And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more. (Lk 12:47-48, cf. Lk 19:26, Mt 25:29, Mk 4:25)

It is finally God alone who sees into men's hearts and what truth they have been given in life, and it is he who will judge on this basis. It is not for human judges to divide the sheep from the goats.

 

[mont974x4]

Mont,
Pretty sure SJ is right on this one the golden calf was their physical representation of God instead of believing by faith in Him that He was a living God. Aaron goes on to suggest setting up a feast to God while speaking of the calf. The calf was YAHWEH.

Read the text I posted. God accused them of worshipping it instead of Him.

 

[stumpjumper]

You accuse us of idolotry and arrogance while you yourself are supporting worshipping false gods as God?

nice

At this point, I'm just going to call it as I see them. This is like the umpteenth thread directed against Catholics on Trader Jack's and the rest of the conservative Protestants crusade against groups they don't agree with.

The implication and the bush that you all are beating around is quite clear.

Muslims worship FALSELY and hence worship a different God.

Catholics worship FALSELY and hence worship a different God.

Postmodernists worship FALSELY and hence worship a different God.

Everybody but you, Trader Jack, and the select few that agree with your views worship false Gods while you and the people that agree with you alone worship genuinely.

And, yes, that is a position of arrogance.

And, no, the Bible is not the Word of God. The Bible itself says that the "Word became flesh" not text...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by simonthezealot
Mont,
Pretty sure SJ is right on this one the golden calf was their physical representation of God instead of believing by faith in Him that He was a living God. Aaron goes on to suggest setting up a feast to God while speaking of the calf. The calf was YAHWEH.

So who would be this God in 2 Corin 4:4?

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the God of the Age, this, hath-blinded/etuflwsen <5186> (5656) the minds of the faithless into the no to shine forth to-them the enlightening of the Good-News of the glory of the Christ, who is an image of the God/YHWH

 

[stumpjumper]

I apologize if what I stated is uncharitable but I've gotten to the point where I don't know what else to say.

Catholics, Protestants, Muslims and all other people do not need to be enemies. I think we can find common ground and there we will find God smiling upon us all...

 

[mont974x4]

At this point, I'm just going to call it as I see them. This is like the umpteenth thread directed against Catholics on Trader Jack's and the rest of the conservative Protestants crusade against groups they don't agree with.

The implication and the bush that you all are beating around is quite clear.

Muslims worship FALSELY and hence worship a different God.

Catholics worship FALSELY and hence worship a different God.

Postmodernists worship FALSELY and hence worship a different God.

Everybody but you, Trader Jack, and the select few that agree with your views worship false Gods while you and the people that agree with you alone worship genuinely.

And, yes, that is a position of arrogance.

And, no, the Bible is not the Word of God. The Bible itself says that the "Word became flesh" not text...

OK, I may be a bit arrogant but it's from a heart zealous for God and His Word.


I just can't get why a person who professes to be a Christian, and does have knowledge of the Bible, can claim that someone who prays to a rock is praying to God and not a god..especially given what Scripture says?