How many agree with this

[TraderJack]

Go to New Advent and read about it.

I have. It was posted here.

New Advent says it is dogmatic, all of it.

The document has some doctrine in it but the whole letter is not treated as infallible even though there is nothing wrong with it.

Well, Scottbot, or another RC said there is no way to know if anything is ex cathedra.

Just about every Roman Catholic gives a different answer.

 

[PassthePeace1]

You realize of course, you're asking her to admit that the pope was wrong, which in turn is to admit that she is wrong.

You might as well ask her if she wants to go hunting with Dick Chaney.

I don't think the Pope and the Church are wrong on the position of Islam....although I do think the whole kissing the Koran was a bit much, and taking it a bit to far.

BTW, I wouldn't mind at all to going hunting with Dick Chaney....I'd just hide his buckshot.

 

[TraderJack]

The pope can be wrong about many things. Popes are sinners like everyone else.

This is not relevant to his infallibility with regard to Christian doctrine.

He was not speaking ex cathedra in the comments above.

JPII was repeating what Lumen Gentium and Vatican II declared "infallibly", or at least as the theory goes.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

so...we're the stubborn people who come to an online forum to promote our church, and, no doubt, lead others astray like we have been lead astray. then you guys come to save the day. lol. with the Bible in hand. (as if we've never read it). and we, being mere pawns of Rome, have no answer to your brilliant Scriptural arguments and are backed into a corner and run away.

That is right on money too.

This is the general belief within GT in regards to those that oppose or 'protest' Catholicism.

*But far from the Truth.

 

[chestertonrules]

Trader Jack, did you report my post?

Given that you are the only Calvinist posting, I assume it was you.

 

[chestertonrules]

I'm not interested in theories.

 

[ScottBot]

The Gnostics had "secret knowledge" that know one but them knew, just as the Roman magesterium, as was shown clearly when you said you have no way to know if something is ex cathedra or not.

Only the magesterium can know that, no one else can.

Secret knowledge held by the magesterium to enlighten with when it suits them.

Yes, that Gnosticism to the core.

The difference being that the Catholic Church will share its knowledge with anyone who wants it. It WANTS to share it, and withholds it from no one.

 

[Rick Otto]

That is, when and if "anybody realy knows" it.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I see. So, according to you, there is no way to determine if something is ex cathedra or not.

You really should try reading at www.newadvent.com

Whenever something is declared ex-cathdra (or from the Chair of Peter) it will be explicity stated in the document as such.

There have been two times a Pope has decalred something infallibly from the Chair of Peter and they were the Assumption and Immaculate Conception. Both of these were without a doubt Ex-Cathedra.

So please tuck that away and do not ask this question again. We know you are smart and knowledgable so do not act a fool by acting like you never heard this before in the future.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Trader Jack, did you report my post?

Given that you are the only Calvinist posting, I assume it was you.

Hey bro...

Is it true Calvinists believe they are predestined for heaven or hell no matter what they do?

Seems kind of silly to me if that is true.

 

[TraderJack]

I'm not interested in theories.

Then renounce the theory of infallibility.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

What do you think this means:

1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

It means if you deny the body and blood, soul and divinity of Christ in the Eucharist then you have no life in you.

 

[ScottBot]

You really should try reading at www.newadvent.com

Whenever something is declared ex-cathdra (or from the Chair of Peter) it will be explicity stated in the document as such.

There have been two times a Pope has decalred something infallibly from the Chair of Peter and they were the Assumption and Immaculate Conception. Both of these were without a doubt Ex-Cathedra.

So please tuck that away and do not ask this question again. We know you are smart and knowledgable so do not act a fool by acting like you never heard this before in the future.

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is considered ex cathedra as well.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Then renounce the theory of infallibility.

The truth comes out!!!


You do not think Scripture is infallible.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is considered ex cathedra as well.

OK... stop using these big words.


Speak in ENGLISH.

 

[ScottBot]

Then renounce the theory of infallibility.

Its not a theory, but a promise by Jesus to keep the Church pure until He returns.

 

[TraderJack]

The difference being that the Catholic Church will share its knowledge with anyone who wants it. It WANTS to share it, and withholds it from no one.

Yeah, like it shares it's secret knowledge of dogmas that have no origination with the Apostles but are known by the Roman magesterium only.

All Rome needs to validate anything it so chooses is for the secret knowledge of the magesterium to say, "It is so".

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=chestertonrules; The pope can be wrong about many things.

Except when they are speaking ex-cathedra, whenever the heck that is. I've heard you say that it was only a couple of times, but you didn't say when & on specificaly what.

Popes are sinners like everyone else.

Some like nobody else.

This is not relevant to his infallibility with regard to Christian doctrine.

maybe not, but it sure makes it interesting when he's sinning to beat the band.

He was not speaking ex cathedra in the comments above.

How do you know?

Oh, I see:

"Whenever something is declared ex-cathdra (or from the Chair of Peter) it will be explicity stated in the document as such."

 

[ScottBot]

OK... stop using these big words.


Speak in ENGLISH.

It is Pope John Paul II's declaration that the Church has no authority to ordain women to the ministerial priesthood.

 

[TraderJack]

Its not a theory, but a promise by Jesus to keep the Church pure until He returns.

So the Roman theory goes.

The Apostles never taught any papal or Roman magesterial "infallibility" nor did the early church.

It was the invention of Rome during the Dark Ages.