How LOST are the SHEEP?

[Daniel Malik]

The picture is of a middle Eastern Sheppard going to an area where his sheep are and calling for them.
They hear and recognise his voice and go to him.

In the current world we live in Jesus still calls for people to follow him.
Now calvanist believe Jesus has chosen them and is merely gathering them.
Armenians believe that non christians hear Jesus' call and that they respond to that call and start to follow Jesus.

How ever you want to put it non christians respond to become Christian and follow Jesus.

Those that don't do not get to be with Jesus and loose out on heaven.

The question here becomes : Is your response biblical?
Middle eastern Sheppard?

 

[Daniel Malik]

The picture is of a middle Eastern Sheppard .

¶
Psalms 23:1[[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
The lord God the Father, the most high , the ancient of days here David is saying is his shepherd. The messiah christ would come from the seed of David. There was a shepherd before Christ was made in the flesh; that would be the The most high god. Is God "middle eastern"? nah

 

[Guojing]

Does God change ? Or break his promises ? He promised Abraham way before he promised Jacob anything would god return on his promise to Abraham or let his seed be curse for ever. According to the Bible he does not change and salvation is for Israel

The entire Romans 11 explained clearly that God had not changed. Israel is currently fallen and considered an enemy in the eyes of God (Romans 11:11, Romans 11:28), so that us gentiles can be shown mercy.

But thru that same mercy shown to us, the nation of Israel will be extended mercy in the future, and God will restore Israel in the new covenant, once the fulness of the gentiles enter the Body of Christ (Romans 11:25-32)

 

[Guojing]

Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Yes, but that is a future promise.

Isaiah the prophet was not revealed the same mystery plan that Paul had (Romans 11:25-26)

 

[rocknanchor]

'How lost'? A preposterous post to begin with, in a Christian designated forum.

 

[Daniel Malik]

The entire Romans 11 explained clearly that God had not changed. Israel is currently fallen and considered an enemy in the eyes of God (Romans 11:11, Romans 11:28), so that us gentiles can be shown mercy.

But thru that same mercy shown to us, the nation of Israel will be extended mercy in the future, and God will restore Israel in the new covenant, once the fulness of the gentiles enter the Body of Christ (Romans 11:25-32)

Good God does not change the rest that you added is incorrect when we read more of the Bible in addition to Romans

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

 

[Daniel Malik]

'How lost'? A preposterous post to begin with, in a Christian designated forum.

Do you have an answer ? the question of how lost are the sheep lends mind to how many sheep are re entering the fold and thus the return of Christ. Contention is not accepted by me on this post

 

[Guojing]

Good God does not change the rest that you added is incorrect when we read more of the Bible in addition to Romans

Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

20 He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the Lord.

I have provided the necessary scripture for my points.

Do you agree with them or do you have another interpretation of those scripture?

 

[Daniel Malik]

Yes, but that is a future promise.

Isaiah the prophet was not revealed the same mystery plan that Paul had (Romans 11:25-26)

It’s a mystery plan ? How so can you show me biblically where god deceived Isaiah and lied or changed .. which doesn’t harmonize with scripture but bring separation and contention between the prophets

 

[Daniel Malik]

I have provided the necessary scripture for my points.

Do you agree with them or do you have another interpretation of those scripture?

what does he hath not dealt so with any nation mean to you ?

 

[Daniel Malik]

I have provided the necessary scripture for my points.

Do you agree with them or do you have another interpretation of those scripture?

How can gentiles get mercy or salvation im sure you are trying to get at, how can that happen if good never dealt with them ?

 

[Guojing]

It’s a mystery plan ? How so can you show me biblically where god deceived Isaiah and lied or changed .. which doesn’t harmonize with scripture but bring separation and contention between the prophets

Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

This picture may help you understand what Isaiah and the OT prophets saw, before the mystery was revealed to Paul.

 

[Daniel Malik]

I have provided the necessary scripture for my points.

Do you agree with them or do you have another interpretation of those scripture?

2esdras 6:56
As for the other people, which also come of Adam, thou hast said that they are nothing, but be like unto spittle: and hast likened the abundance of them unto a drop that falleth from a vessel.
57 And now, O Lord, behold, these heathen, which have ever been reputed as nothing, have begun to be lords over us, and to devour us.
58

But we thy people, whom thou hast called thy firstborn, thy only begotten, and thy fervent lover, are given into their hands.

the heathen become lords over Israel.

Isaiah 61:1The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

3To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion,

 

[Guojing]

How can gentiles get mercy or salvation im sure you are trying to get at, how can that happen if good never dealt with them ?

Currently, Gentiles are now extended mercy because God has concluded Israel in unbelief

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

 

[Daniel Malik]

Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

This picture may help you understand what Isaiah and the OT prophets saw, before the mystery was revealed to Paul.

View attachment 299805

Romans 11:262and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[Daniel Malik]

Currently, Gentiles are now extended mercy because God has concluded Israel in unbelief

Romans 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Can you go outside of Romans to prove your point because I’m showing you even in Romans god dealing with Israel. The Gentiles that Paul is talking to are Israelites

precept for Romans 11:25
It’s the same phraseology speaking about Paul’s brethren , of Israel
1Corinthians 12:1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.


Who’s Paul’s brethren ?

 

[Guojing]

Can you go outside of Romans to prove your point because I’m showing you even in Romans god dealing with Israel. The Gentiles that Paul is talking to are Israelites

1Corinthians 12:1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.


Who’s Paul’s brethren ?

To Jews, brethren are always fellow Jews.

But my point is that God no longer deals with Israel as a nation, after their fall (Romans 11:11).

He deals with Jews and gentiles, as individuals, in the Body of Christ. (Galatians 3:28)

 

[Guojing]

Romans 11:262and so all Israel shall be saved: even as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer; He shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Yes, the nation of Israel shall be saved at the end of the Tribulation, which is a future event. (Romans 11:25-27)

 

[Daniel Malik]

To Jews, brethren are always fellow Jews.

But my point is that God no longer deals with Israel as a nation, after their fall (Romans 11:11).

He deals with Jews and gentiles, as individuals, in the Body of Christ. (Galatians 3:28)

Are you ignoring Isaiah 61:1 which Christ quotes as the gospel and are you ignoring Romans 11:26 ? And psalms 147:19-20

 

[Guojing]

Are you ignoring Isaiah 61:1 which Christ quotes as the gospel and are you ignoring Romans 11:26 ? And psalms 147:19-20

I am not ignoring.

I am distinguishing between time past, but now and the age to come. Paul instructs us to rightly divide the word of truth in 2 Timothy 2:15

Time past : Genesis until Israel fell as a nation
But now: The current church age
Age to come :Tribulation.

Isaiah 61:1 was truth in Time past
Romans 11:26 is the word of truth during the age to come