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How long does one wait for the best?

OhhJim

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The general consensus seems to be that we should wait for a spouse that is wonderful, rather than marry "too soon". Carrying this concept to its logical conclusion, how long do you wait? For example:

1. Suppose you are single all your life, but the day before you die, you marry someone who is fantastic. Would that scenario be acceptable?

2. Suppose you marry someone who meets all your criteria-except you don't feel God telling you to marry him/her-and have, say, 50 years of good marriage, serving God, etc. Would that be acceptable?

3. Is it worth taking a chance that the whole concept is flawed? That is to say, if you reject several qualified candidates for marriage, then when you get to heaven, find out that God never actually did have that one special one set aside for you...will that be ok? Will you have regrets?

4. Does it even matter, in the context of eternity?

What it boils down to is this question: Is it better to have 50 years of an ok marriage, or 1 day of a fantastic one? Considering that we will probably have something in between, at what point do you draw the line?

Related question: Do you actually know anyone in real life who got married for the first time when they were 70, and is glad they waited? Conversely, do you know anyone who got married for the first time at 70, and wished they hadn't waited?
 

BeautyForAshes

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Jim, the issue isn't marrying "too soon" but simply learning to wait on God's timing. Because when you wait and listen for His instruction you aren't "taking a chance" or dreaming of the "what ifs" about life. Its when you try to reason it out in your own mind that you are gambling with your future(You know, we can just about reason to death anything to make it fit our motives).

Question…why is it when God's timing is quick and happenes when WE want it, that's cool :) But when God calls us to wait, then we try to "logically" reason why we shouldn't? As if only in this one instance, we know more or better than God.

But to answer all your scenarios - I'd rather have whatever God has willed for - whether it’s for a day or a decade."

And when I get to heaven and find out that God has intended otherwise, I won't even care - I'm in heaven praising the Father, after all. :D That's better than ANYTHING down here earth!

Editted: Don't get me wrong, I know sometimes things move fast. :) For instance, my grandparents (who were married for 50 plus years) got marrried after knowing each other for 3 weeks. They were both faithful Christians and listened to the voice of God. If they had listen to "man" (or probably even tried to figure it out on their own), they probably would not have gotten married (they were an interracial couple living in the south). They each had other people of their own ethnicity that they could have married, but instead chose to listen to God and chose each other. :~)
 
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the_man

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OhhJim said:
The general consensus seems to be that we should wait for a spouse that is wonderful, rather than marry "too soon". Carrying this concept to its logical conclusion, how long do you wait? For example:

Are we making the assumption that getting married is indeed a logical choice? That asside, I think it's a two step process. Step 1, finding out if it is God's will in your life to get married; Step 2, choosing the right partner to go on this journey with. I mean, thre are 21 year olds that get married and are happy, there are also 40 year olds that marry and are happy. Do we say that the 21 year olds did not wait long enough? We can't put it to a formula (atleast not one dependant on time).

OhhJim said:
1. Suppose you are single all your life, but the day before you die, you marry someone who is fantastic. Would that scenario be acceptable?

Heh, acceptable? It's not like I have too much choice. None of us are promised tomorrow. The only consequence in that scenario is the fact that my new spouse is now a widow. Other than that, being in the presense of God will surpass any joy that marriage can give to me.


OhhJim said:
2. Suppose you marry someone who meets all your criteria-except you don't feel God telling you to marry him/her-and have, say, 50 years of good marriage, serving God, etc. Would that be acceptable?

This is a tricky one that depends entirely on your definition of 'good' or your definition of 'feel God'. If you marry outside of God's will, there will be consequences. That is when 'good' becomes relative. Usually, when God wants a say, there is no mistaking in it, His will is clear. So this 'feeling' aspect to it does not apply.

OhhJim said:
3. Is it worth taking a chance that the whole concept is flawed? That is to say, if you reject several qualified candidates for marriage, then when you get to heaven, find out that God never actually did have that one special one set aside for you...will that be ok? Will you have regrets?

The concept IS flawed because we live in a fallen world. If we did not live in a fallen world, Pauls points for being single will not apply (i.e. to wholly serve God). Why did God create Adam and Eve to be together in a pre-fallen world? Perhaps, God (all-knowing) anticipated to fall and set up this institution for us. We know that in Heaven everyone will be "single", perhaps I should say there will be no marriage in heaven, rather than "single", because I believe the state we will be in will be higher than being married or single (ala the Angels). (This can be discusssed much further).

OhhJim said:
4. Does it even matter, in the context of eternity?

Yes and No. Yes because your experiences as a Christian on this earth shapes who you are and your relationship with God, which will (I believe) affect your concept of eternity. No because the marriage relationship ends on earth.

OhhJim said:
What it boils down to is this question: Is it better to have 50 years of an ok marriage, or 1 day of a fantastic one? Considering that we will probably have something in between, at what point do you draw the line?

Then the question is really not about marriage per se (if it is, I think you are in danger of making marriage more than it is), but about life experiences in general. We could ask, who lived a better life, the disciples because they experienced Jesus in physical form on a daily basis or Paul who had one (quite unpleasant) encounter with our Lord. I think the more important issue is that in both casses, we are in the will of God.
 
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boilerblues

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I think CS Lewis got married rather late in life, she also died before he did ("Problem of Pain" was written before he was married, "Grief Observed" was written soon after her death).

I think you are making some wrong assumptions about marriage. No marriage is perfect, every marriage involves hard work. After a while the warm fuzzy feelings go away and you're left with someone who snores, doesn't put the lid down on the toilet, doesn't like the same tv shows, and doesn't put his clothes in the laundry basket. At that point in time you have to choose to love that person because you have committed to love them for bettter or worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, till death do you part. In most of the world you wouldn't have a choice about who you married, your parents would arrange that for you. You'd meet her and then she would be your wife, you have to learn to love her (not warm fuzzy feelings, a committed love not based on feelings). Now if we trust God and wait for Him to bring us His best things will still be hard, but we'll avoid some even worse pit falls (sometimes, people change over time and things happen). God's best is always worth waiting for.

In the past I have occasionally wondered if I blew it with "the one", but I have come to accept that God is bigger than my mistakes. I trust that God is the Giver of good gifts and if I trust Him I can count on Him to be faithful, also realizing that the good gift may be a fruitful life of contentment as a single person.
 
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songz777

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well I have never been married and always wanted to and still do. Ive been waiting ages years decades. By faith I know that when the time comes and God blesses me here for i know He will, I know that it will better than I couild ever imagine because He would have refined and tested me and improved me. You see, you could ask Abraham if waiting 25 yrs for a son was worth it even at his age? I am sure he rejoiced and said yes. However I don know any one who has waited past my age and never been married or had a relationship, who has said it was worth it, I just aint met any one yet, they all seem to get married off for better or worse before me. God has kindely revealed to me the reason for my long test, and I rejoice to see what He has done for me and with me. But one day I shall enter the married forum and testify of His goodness and faithfulness. Some folks say "how can you know or arnt you dictating what God will do"? well all I know is I will get married one day, i just do it comes through a close relationship with Jesus, how can i not know His will if I live in the light of His glory so often? Well any way thats a future date. i do hope that someone can say I know someone who has waited till 50 -60- or even 70 it would be an encouragment lol.
Bless you John
 
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OhhJim

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the_man said:
...being in the presense of God will surpass any joy that marriage can give to me..

the_man said:
...your experiences as a Christian on this earth shapes who you are and your relationship with God...

You seem to be contradicting yourself, here. On the one hand, you are so happy to be in heaven that what happened on Earth didn't matter. On the other, what happened on Earth matters because it affects your relationship with God.

This is my whole point #4. Since we are going to be completely happy in heaven forever, what does it matter whether or not we marry here on earth? Shouldn't we spend all our time and energy serving God? And yet, I know of very few fulltime Christian leaders who aren't married.
 
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OhhJim

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boilerblues said:
I think you are making some wrong assumptions about marriage.
What assumptions do you see me making in my post? Feel free to quote me.
boilerblues said:
No marriage is perfect, every marriage involves hard work. After a while the warm fuzzy feelings go away and you're left with someone who snores, doesn't put the lid down on the toilet, doesn't like the same tv shows, and doesn't put his clothes in the laundry basket.
*giggle*
Yeah, I was married for 3 years. You're kinda preaching to the choir, here! ;)
 
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the_man

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OhhJim said:
You seem to be contradicting yourself, here. On the one hand, you are so happy to be in heaven that what happened on Earth didn't matter. On the other, what happened on Earth matters because it affects your relationship with God.

First, you are going to have to explain to me how those two (my sentences) are mutually exclusive. Second, I never said what happened on earth didn't matter. I just said in comparison, whatever joy experienced on earth cannot compare to the joy of being in Heaven (in His presense).

CS Lewis does an excellent job of explaining this. He was adressing the question of if there is going to be sex in heaven. You can easily replace the concept of sex in heaven with the concept of marriage in heaven.

I think our present outlook might be like that of a small boy who, on being told that the sexual act was the highest bodily pleasure, should immediately ask whether you ate chocolates at the same time. On receiving the answer no, he might regard absence of chocolates as the chief characteristic of sexuality. In vain would you tell him that the reason why lovers in their carnal raptures don't bother about chocolates is that they have something better to think of. The boy knows chocolate: he does not know the positive thing that excludes it. We are in the same position. We know the sexual life; we do not know, except in glimpses, the other thing which, in Heaven, will leave no room for it. --CS Lewis

OhhJim said:
This is my whole point #4. Since we are going to be completely happy in heaven forever, what does it matter whether or not we marry here on earth? Shouldn't we spend all our time and energy serving God? And yet, I know of very few fulltime Christian leaders who aren't married.

This is where I believe you are making a few big mistakes. First in comparing marriage, an earthly joy, to the joy of being in Heaven. As CS said, to do so would be to be like the boy. Second, in implying (even though this may be far from your intent) that the only function/outcome of marriage is to give joy. Merging your life with another person is hardly a joyful experience. Marriage taxes everything from you, stresses you at your weakest points and demands your selflessness. If more people understoond this, no one would be rushing into marriage. Third, that being married and serving God are mutually exclusive. I know of many married couples that are devoted to serving God, even more so than some singles.
 
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OhhJim

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the_man said:
This is where I believe you are making a few big mistakes. First in comparing marriage, an earthly joy, to the joy of being in Heaven. As CS said, to do so would be to be like the boy. Second, in implying (even though this may be far from your intent) that the only function/outcome of marriage is to give joy. Merging your life with another person is hardly a joyful experience. Marriage taxes everything from you, stresses you at your weakest points and demands your selflessness. If more people understoond this, no one would be rushing into marriage.
Where did I say that

A) Marriage is an earthly joy, or
B) The function of marriage is to give joy?

My friend, I've been married. I know a fair bit about it. I would NEVER suggest what you are saying I'm implying.

the_man said:
Third, that being married and serving God are mutually exclusive. I know of many married couples that are devoted to serving God, even more so than some singles.
I didn't say that being married and serving God are mutually exclusive. However, Paul said that they are "at odds" (my paraphrase). I'd like to examine this concept in more depth soon, but I shouldn't have brought it up in this thread.

Edit: Thanks for the quote from C.S. Lewis. I hadn't read that before.
 
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the_man

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OhhJim said:
Where did I say that

A) Marriage is an earthly joy, or
B) The function of marriage is to give joy?

My friend, I've been married. I know a fair bit about it. I would NEVER suggest what you are saying I'm implying.

I never said you said that, I believe my exact words were, "implying (even though this may be far from your intent) that..." And if your next question would be along the lines of 'where did I imply...' I would point to the mere fact that by giving the two as options ("would that scenario be acceptable?"), you raise marriage to a level that it is unfit for.

Oh and brother Jim, I am not ignorant to your posts/threads; I was fully aware that your experience regarding marriage surpass mine.

OhhJim said:
I didn't say that being married and serving God are mutually exclusive. However, Paul said that they are "at odds" (my paraphrase). I'd like to examine this concept in more depth soon, but I shouldn't have brought it up in this thread.

...Fair enough. We'll discuss that some other time then.
 
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OhhJim

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the_man said:
Oh and brother Jim, I am not ignorant to your posts/threads; I was fully aware that your experience regarding marriage surpass mine.

I'm really not trying to sound like I know more than you, or anyone else, about marriage. My only point is that I do agree with you that marriage is not necessarily joy, or even that it's supposed to be. I do see some others in this forum that seem to think they need marriage to be happy, and this is one reason for this thread, although not the only reason. I think that some Christian singles haven't thought completely through the concepts of why they should or shouldn't get married, or what the purpose of marriage is. I'm not saying I know, either. But I think a discussion of these things might be good, and I'm glad you're contributing because your posts are well-reasoned and helpful.
 
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the_man

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OhhJim said:
I'm really not trying to sound like I know more than you...about marriage.

Ah, but it is true.

OhhJim said:
My only point is that I do agree with you that marriage is not necessarily joy, or even that it's supposed to be. I do see some others in this forum that seem to think they need marriage to be happy, and this is one reason for this thread, although not the only reason. I think that some Christian singles haven't thought completely through the concepts of why they should or shouldn't get married, or what the purpose of marriage is. I'm not saying I know, either. But I think a discussion of these things might be good, and I'm glad you're contributing because your posts are well-reasoned and helpful.

Yes, I think we agree on more than we disagree. I do like the thought provoking questions though. And thank you for the kind words.
 
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waterbear

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1. Suppose you are single all your life, but the day before you die, you marry someone who is fantastic. Would that scenario be acceptable?

Yes, it would be acceptable if highly unlikely.

2. Suppose you marry someone who meets all your criteria-except you don't feel God telling you to marry him/her-and have, say, 50 years of good marriage, serving God, etc. Would that be acceptable?

Yes, it would be acceptable.

3. Is it worth taking a chance that the whole concept is flawed? That is to say, if you reject several qualified candidates for marriage, then when you get to heaven, find out that God never actually did have that one special one set aside for you...will that be ok? Will you have regrets?

I already assume that there is nobody set aside for me.

4. Does it even matter, in the context of eternity?

My best guess is that it matters as much as you'd like it to matter, but the answer to this question is pretty unknowable.

What it boils down to is this question: Is it better to have 50 years of an ok marriage, or 1 day of a fantastic one?

If both relationships lasted sufficiently long (perhaps in the pre-marriage phase) then I'd prefer the 1 day marriage. What is suffiicently long I'm not sure - I'd guess a couple years at least.

Considering that we will probably have something in between, at what point do you draw the line?

I established a couple dating requirements which filter out the vast majority of candidates, then if I enjoy being around her and our goals are compatible I'd be open to marrying her. Exactly how perfectionist one should be about requirements depends on who much one would like to be married vs. be single - I'll be content living a single life so I'm a bit picky about whom I'd marry. Someone who has important life goals dependent on marriage would presumably be less picky, though even he/she should be mindful that the spouse needs to go along with these important goals too.
 
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boilerblues

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OhhJim said:
What assumptions do you see me making in my post? Feel free to quote me.

That wasn't intended to be any kind of insult or attack. I'll try to explain what I mean:

1. A question about your question, would the couple be aware he was going to die the next day? If yes then I think that would lead to something that would be worked out in the relationship. I think they would either reconsider whether marriage is the best way to spend those final moments or they would decide to go ahead feeling that their love deserved to fully carried out before they parted.

I do remember a story about a young couple that got engaged and on their honeymoon he was carrying his new bride up the stairs to their room and she died right there in his arms (a brain hemorage or something like that). That must have led to incredible pain on his part, but would any of us regret that? I don't think I would, I think that through the pain I would seek to praise God for giving me that wonderful gift even if only for that short time.

You may also want to see if you can find some info on Jeremy Camp and what happened with his first wife who died very young. I don't remember the full story, but as I understand it he is thankful for the time he did have her and it formed who he is today.

2. If you've married then you have committed to that person and God would expect us to not only accept that situation, but praise Him for it. Jacob did not intend to marry Leah, but when Jacob favored Rachel over Leah God showed favor to Leah by allowing her to have sons and closing Rachel's womb. Things don't always work out like they are supposed to, but God does not see an opportunity lost, He see's a chance to display His Glory in a place where good appears to have failed.

3. I have learned not to have regrets in life, I am who I am because of what I have been through, good or bad. I praise God for the good and I praise Him for redeeming the bad. Though I have yet to find a wife, I know that my failed pursuits in the past have led to a great deal of growth in my relationship with God. For that I praise God, in my pursuit of women I found Jesus and fell in love with Him. Nothing to regret there :)

4. Nothing matters and everything matters. I am no one and I am the beloved. God's plan will be carried out and His Glory made known to all creation, every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Christ is Lord to the Glory of God. Nothing I do will change that for better or worse. Yet I am a part of God's plan for revealing His Glory and there are no small parts in that task. I don't believe that anything that happens is wasted, God has a purpose to each thing that happens. I especially believe that marriage is something that God uses in a powerful way in people's lives.

To your overall question, the answer is "yes". To that young man whose bride died in his arms the night of his wedding I believe that it impacted his life as deeply as my grandparents who have been married for 55 years. Love changes lives and God works out His purpose through the things that happen in our lives. What would define fantastic for one day of marriage, lots of warm fuzzy feelings? What would define ok for a 50 year marriage? If a couple has remained committed to each other in a God honoring marriage for 50 years I believe that in itself defines it as fantastic. The love of a man who gives up going to the football game with his buddies to stay home with his sick wife is greater than what a man feels on his honeymoon. It's a love founded on a deep committment that goes beyond feelings, that's a God honoring love. Yet the man who loses his wife after one day knows a love that touches to the bottom of his soul and it will change the rest of his life.

A comment on the comment about knowing few Christian leaders who are not married. As I've looked at the modern church today and as I've looked at the missional role that Paul played I've arrived at the conclusion that we need to have a better understanding of the context of Paul's praise of singleness (there's actually a good case for him being a widower). As you look over the life of Paul you see he was always on the move and always in danger of his life. His situation is one that would be highly difficult to be married in. Now let's examine the role of the modern day Christian leader. Most stay in once place, most have a home, most lead a flock of people of both sexes who are on a fairly equal level. I would challenge that a married couple who are fully devoted to serving Christ are actually able to accomplish more for the Kingdom than they could seperately. This isn't always the case, but bear with me. In the modern church we end up ministering to people of both sexes and married couples. I lead a house church and as a single person I find it a challenge to minister in a lot of ways to married couples because I have no experience, no understanding, no credibility for telling them how to live out their marriage. I can hand them Bible fun facts, but what I say carries little weight. Also, having a close relationship with a woman allows me to understand women better so when ministering to them I understand them better. Beyond that, if I have a wife that I can direct these women to her and am able to keep a safer relationship with women in the church. If no ministry leaders had families they wouldn't have a connection with parents in the PTO, Boy Scouts, soccer clubs, baseball teams, 4-H, and a million other things that generally only parents do. A God honoring marriage can be a very powerful ministry and can reach people who would not be very well reached by single people. Now conversly God needs older single people, divorced people, etc to reach those elements of the lost world and to be able to minister to people in that place in life. We are all different parts of the body, ours is not to debate what the most useful part is, but to be useful as the part God has made us to be.

I do think Paul's challenge is still valid, but we also have to consider the place God has called us to serve in. There are still many ministry situations where it is better to be single.

I hope none of us just sit and wait on anything. We have been called to be faithful where God has us and trust Him for anything beyond. I'm quite content as a single person right now. I still desire a wife, but until God sends one my way I'm going to seek to be a faithful servant where I am.
 
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Living4Him03

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As believers I don't think it's acceptable for us to knowingly be outside of God's will. If we know that it's not God's will for us to marry someone, we shouldn't do it. I think that Christians across the board have developed an idealistic view of marriage. Yes, it is a wonderful, God created, two becoming one thing! However, it is by no means perfect and even Paul said those who marry will have many troubles in this life! Doesn't mean don't marry, it just means we should try to view marriage more realistically and seriously. It's for life. It' s also not arbitrary. Some people it seems treat it as though it is, but it's not. That just leads to divorce later on.
 
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Living4Him03

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Oh, something else I thought of. You seem to have assumed marriage is more of a selfish relationship that you enter into for you. Like I said, it isn't arbitrary, so don't get married if you aren't in love and committed that person and vice versa. Marriage is not about waiting until YOU can find what you've always wanted and waited for...only Christ can fulfill us in that way. Marriage ultimately should bring both spouses closer to God. The relationship of husband and wife is meant to mimic Christ and His Church. We are to keep God as the center and head of the marriage. If you can't marry someone with whom you can grow closer to God, then you really shouldn't marry.
 
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OhhJim

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boilerblues said:
If a couple has remained committed to each other in a God honoring marriage for 50 years I believe that in itself defines it as fantastic.

An excellent point, and one which I heartily agree with. This is something that needs to be considered much more than it is, in these times when there is so much emphasis on finding the "right" person.
 
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OhhJim

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Another question: Suppose two Christians get married, even though neither of them feels any guidance from God to marry the other. They each fulfill each other's needs as a spouse, they serve God in whatever capacity they find the opportunity, they raise a family or not, depending on their situation, they display the love of God to their fellow man...in short, they obey all the biblical commands to husbands and wives, and are happy and satisfied with each other. Is God dishonored by this marriage? Is He displeased because they didn't "wait for His will"? Will the marriage suffer because they didn't wait for God's timing?
 
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