How long does it take to figure out what doctrine to believe?

[Aaron112]

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

One of the rarest, most difficult to find, on earth. Not hardly ever seen online, if ever.

 

[Hoping2]

One of the rarest, most difficult to find, on earth. Not hardly ever seen online, if ever.

Even the reborn can be taught to use a computer for the glory of God. LOL

 

[Aaron112]

Even the reborn can be taught to use a computer for the glory of God. LOL

yes, but are rarely found using it at all - their time is more spent in the true things of the Kingdom of God, instead of the false things on the internet.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Except we have to abide in Christ and endure to the end to actually receive it.

Salvation is not about our effort - eternal reward is.

 

[Carl Emerson]

So when Paul said “if we deny Him, He will deny us” what did he mean that Jesus would deny them? To me it sounds like your interpretation of verse 13 contradicts verse 12. You’re saying that if we are faithless we will still be saved but Paul had just said that if we deny Christ which is the definition of faithless apistos then Christ will deny us. How can we be saved while being denied by Christ?

Denying is not the definition of faithless, the disciples asked Jesus to help their unbelief. They were not denying Jesus.

 

[Aaron112]

Salvation is not about our effort - eternal reward is.

Compare: "WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling"
and "Be TERRIFIED lest any one of you should fall short"
sorry, I do not remember where these verses are in the Bible, or the associated ones.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Compare: "WORK OUT your own salvation with fear and trembling"
and "Be TERRIFIED lest any one of you should fall short"
sorry, I do not remember where these verses are in the Bible, or the associated ones.

The first one is referring to the deep respect for His Holy Purpose that we are invited to walk in.

The second one is a warning to the tares in the church some of whom left fellowship altogether.

 

[BNR32FAN]

SURPRISE! (but not a good one) for billions of people who deny or crucify Jesus every morning.

If you’re going to comment on the question why not answer it?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Denying is not the definition of faithless, the disciples asked Jesus to help their unbelief. They were not denying Jesus.

Again you didn’t answer the question. Paul said that Jesus would deny him. What does that mean? And yes faithless is the same as denying Christ in the context of the passage. In 2 Timothy 2 Paul is telling Timothy to stand firm in the faith, he telling him the importance of perseverance because he knows that Timothy is going to go thru persecution exactly like Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 10 which is precisely why Paul quoted Jesus’ words in Matthew 10. Anyone who denies Me, I will deny before My Father in Heaven. I explain all of this in the video. Did you watch it?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Denying is not the definition of faithless, the disciples asked Jesus to help their unbelief. They were not denying Jesus.

What is Paul telling Timothy in the chapter? What’s the point of his message here? Where is Paul when he wrote this epistle? He was in jail. Are you aware that when Christians were arrested for practicing Christianity that they were given the opportunity to deny Christ in order to escape punishment? That’s precisely what Paul is warning Timothy not to do here. It’s the same exact message that Jesus gave His disciples in Matthew 10 which is why Paul is quoting Jesus from Matthew 10.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

I want to find out whether eternal security is really true. I want to believe yes. There are people however who claim to have lost their faith, they say it was due to sin and they can no longer believe anymore even if they want to. That is concerning to hear, and also then there are those who simply just stopped believing.

How can we believe in eternal security with these kind of testimony?

They're separate topics. OSAS and people falling into unbelief.

An excellent scriptural primer for OSAS that convinced me decades back a book called GRACE by Lewis Sperry Chafer, (deceased), formerly of Dallas School of Theology. It's an excellent read, well thought out. Yes, it is true.

An even simpler and shorter analogy is IF we have to doubt our salvation technically we're not even in faith, but in doubt. Every proponent of non OSAS always claim to not doubt their salvation in the moment. However such positions logically demand DOUBT. Without doubt they would only be OSAS, but only in the moment, which obviously could change in the next breath.

I'm just saying I can not live a life of faith in perpetual doubts. Therefore I reject any attempts of claiming sinlessness as most of them do. They have various formulas and incantations to supposedly return them to good standing. It's all hogwash nonsense.

We're sinners saved by GRACE and MERCY of God in Christ, unmerited, unearnable.

None of which makes anyone sinless

 

[BNR32FAN]

I want to find out whether eternal security is really true. I want to believe yes. There are people however who claim to have lost their faith, they say it was due to sin and they can no longer believe anymore even if they want to. That is concerning to hear, and also then there are those who simply just stopped believing.

How can we believe in eternal security with these kind of testimony?

I would highly recommend staying away from commentaries on the subject and watch some debate videos on YouTube where you have people on both sides of the argument presenting both sides of the debate. Commentators will often only address the easy passages that they want to address but in debates they’re pressed to address the passages they don’t want to address.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Theres a lot of conditions before we get to promise that we should all consider

1. His sheep hear His voice - God speaks to us though His Word Psa 119:105 Romans 10:17
2. Christ knows us- how does Christ say He knows us? 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. So it requires to obey God and His commandments those who don't Jesus says He does not know Mat 7:23 1 John 2:4
3. We follow Jesus - meaning we follow what Jesus taught and how He lived 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

So before we get to the promise of eternal life, we need to hear His voice through His Word, obey Him and His commandments and follow His example, in His footsteps, this is what faith is about. Many want to "hear" His Word, that never leads to action, James 1:22-25 Jesus clearly tells us there is action on our part to be His sheep.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Again you didn’t answer the question. Paul said that Jesus would deny him. What does that mean? And yes faithless is the same as denying Christ in the context of the passage. In 2 Timothy 2 Paul is telling Timothy to stand firm in the faith, he telling him the importance of perseverance because he knows that Timothy is going to go thru persecution exactly like Jesus told His disciples in Matthew 10 which is precisely why Paul quoted Jesus’ words in Matthew 10. Anyone who denies Me, I will deny before My Father in Heaven. I explain all of this in the video. Did you watch it?

I don't watch video's, I read the scripture and walk with Jesus.

I answered the question but you didn't like the answer.

Where did you learn your theology?

Most learn from 'teachers' who learn from 'teachers' I have walked a different journey.

If you want to convince me you are worth listening to - give testimony of how Jesus evidences Himself in your life with the Signs of the Kingdom that demonstrates His Reign in your life. Paul did this and gained the ear of the disciples in Jerusalem.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What is Paul telling Timothy in the chapter? What’s the point of his message here? Where is Paul when he wrote this epistle? He was in jail. Are you aware that when Christians were arrested for practicing Christianity that they were given the opportunity to deny Christ in order to escape punishment? That’s precisely what Paul is warning Timothy not to do here. It’s the same exact message that Jesus gave His disciples in Matthew 10 which is why Paul is quoting Jesus from Matthew 10.

Some flee persecution and are none the less in Christ.

Some are appointed to honour Jesus in persecution and are given the grace to bare it.

In neither case their eternal life is threatened - the blood of Jesus avails for them because of who they are - not what they do.

Paul is telling Timothy to remain in his appointed path and not deviate from it.

When we are faithless He is faithful for He cannot deny Himself.

The vastness of the Love of Jesus is not commonly understood - He is not watching for us to fail and threatening to punish is if we do. He is a loving Shepherd who gathers the flock, even leaving the 99 and going to rescue the one from the danger of sin because we are His sons and daughters who He loves and has chosen to fellowship with eternally.

Consider Isaiah 1...

18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,

“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

19 “If you consent and obey,
You will eat the best of the land;
20 “But if you refuse and rebel,
You will be devoured by the sword.”
Truly, the mouth of the Lord has spoken.

In 18 the promise of forgiveness and salvation is already assured eternally.

In 19 the consequences of obedience or otherwise results in Blessing or Calamity IN THIS LIFE.

The two are separate issues that should not be confused.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is Good News not bad news.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Theres a lot of conditions before we get to promise that we should all consider

1. His sheep hear His voice - God speaks to us though His Word Psa 119:105 Romans 10:17
2. Christ knows us- how does Christ say He knows us? 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. So it requires to obey God and His commandments those who don't Jesus says He does not know Mat 7:23 1 John 2:4
3. We follow Jesus - meaning we follow what Jesus taught and how He lived 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

So before we get to the promise of eternal life, we need to hear His voice through His Word, obey Him and His commandments and follow His example, in His footsteps, this is what faith is about. Many want to "hear" His Word, that never leads to action, James 1:22-25 Jesus clearly tells us there is action on our part to be His sheep.

Not a good idea to add conditions to the clear statements of scripture to justify a theology.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not a good idea to add conditions to the clear statements of scripture to justify a theology.

I didn’t add the conditions, Jesus did. The Scriptures explains these conditions as I laid out in my post from God’s Word. The Bible explains itself if we allow it to.

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

1. His sheep hear His voice - God speaks to us though His Word Psa 119:105 Romans 10:17
2. Christ knows us- how does Christ say He knows us? 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. So it requires to obey God and His commandments those who don't Jesus says He does not know Mat 7:23 1 John 2:4
3. We follow Jesus - meaning we follow what Jesus taught and how He lived 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 Heb 4:15

But if you believe we can receive the promises and ignore the conditions, thats a choice, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me because it has never worked out well for anyone in the Scriptures.

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,

Just like the Israelites had their trial in the wilderness, we are in ours. Many never made it to their promise land due to disobedience Heb 4:6 Eze 20:13 Eze 20:21 we are told not to follow their same path of disobedience Heb 4:11 meaning, not everyone who says Lord Lord (believers) will enter into God’s Kingdom, but those who do His will Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15. In all honesty, it surprises me anyone would argue against this, why would we not want to hear His voice, and have Jesus know us or follow Him and His example and the plain scriptures gives details how to do this. I think the issue is people want the blessing of God and follow Him based on their terms, but not many really want God based on His terms. God doesn’t bend His will for us, we are told mold our ways to His. Psa 40:8 Isa 55:8-9

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't watch video's, I read the scripture and walk with Jesus.

I answered the question but you didn't like the answer.

Where did you learn your theology?

Most learn from 'teachers' who learn from 'teachers' I have walked a different journey.

If you want to convince me you are worth listening to - give testimony of how Jesus evidences Himself in your life with the Signs of the Kingdom that demonstrates His Reign in your life. Paul did this and gained the ear of the disciples in Jerusalem.

No you didn’t answer the question, here’s my question and your reply.

So when Paul said “if we deny Him, He will deny us” what did he mean that Jesus would deny them?

Denying is not the definition of faithless, the disciples asked Jesus to help their unbelief. They were not denying Jesus.

Your reply does not answer the question “what did he mean that Jesus would deny them”?

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't watch video's, I read the scripture and walk with Jesus.

I answered the question but you didn't like the answer.

Where did you learn your theology?

Most learn from 'teachers' who learn from 'teachers' I have walked a different journey.

If you want to convince me you are worth listening to - give testimony of how Jesus evidences Himself in your life with the Signs of the Kingdom that demonstrates His Reign in your life. Paul did this and gained the ear of the disciples in Jerusalem.

I learned my theology by studying the Bible, the early church writings, and early church history. The early church writings can give us an idea of what the early church taught and nobody in the early church taught eternal security. Not one single early church writer.

 

[Hoping2]

yes, but are rarely found using it at all - their time is more spent in the true things of the Kingdom of God, instead of the false things on the internet.

The internet is just a tool.
Who uses it, and why, will manifest the true love of the users.