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Holocaust Revealed
Ante Pavelic killer file
The information is out there. I just don't think you are looking hard enough (which I can understand as it reflects very badly on the Catholic Church)
John
Blessed Aloysius Viktor Stepinac (Croatian: Alojzije Viktor Stepinac, 8 May 1898 10 February 1960) was a Croatian Catholic cardinal who was Archbishop of Zagreb from 1937 to 1960. He presided over the Croatian Catholic Church during World War II, a period in which it saw widespread collaboration with the Axis occupation, in particular with the Ustae-led Independent State of Croatia (NDH) a Nazi puppet state established in occupied Yugoslavia. In 1946, in a verdict that polarized public opinion both in Yugoslavia and beyond, the Yugoslav authorities found him guilty of collaboration with the fascist Ustae movement and complicity in allowing the forced conversions of Orthodox Serbs to Catholicism. He was sentenced to 16 years in prison, but after five years (during which he received preferential treatment) he was released and offered a choice of emigration or confinement to his home parish of Kraić, he chose the latter. In 1952 he was appointed cardinal by Pope Pius XII. In 1998, Pope John Paul II declared him a martyr and beatified him, which again polarized public opinion.Aloysius Stepinac
I have to admit, I was a little skeptical of your first article which sounded a little "sensational" from the get-go:
the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, the Croatian Ustasha and Muslim fundamentalists were openly supported by the VaticanThe Roma were largely Catholic for one, and for two, the article goes on to cite equally sensationalist "history" books of the matter, which are relatively contemporary.
It would appear that perhaps you, under the username prodromos, over at the Catholic Forums participated in a similar thread in which the Communist nature of the allegations were made.
I'm going to put here some Catholic responses to these allegations, including Arch. Stepinac, which I have browsed already.
InsideCatholic.com.
CatholicCulture.org.
A Q&A introduced by Pope John Paul II.
Needless to say, the Catholic response tells quite a different story and has some decent documentation of its own.
First Kishinev pogrom of Easter, 1903:
The victims, mostly Jewish children, of a 1905 pogrom in Yekaterinoslav (today's Dnipropetrovsk).
"The anti-Jewish riots in Kishinev, Bessarabia (modern Moldova), are worse than the censor will permit to publish. There was a well laid-out plan for the general massacre of Jews on the day following the Orthodox Easter. The mob was led by priests, and the general cry, "Kill the Jews," was taken up all over the city. The Jews were taken wholly unaware and were slaughtered like sheep. The dead number 120 [Note: the actual number of dead was 47–48[7]] and the injured about 500. The scenes of horror attending this massacre are beyond description. Babies were literally torn to pieces by the frenzied and bloodthirsty mob. The local police made no attempt to check the reign of terror. At sunset the streets were piled with corpses and wounded. Those who could make their escape fled in terror, and the city is now practically deserted of Jews."[8]-Information found on Wikipedia Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire
- <LI id=cite_note-6>^ Hilary L Rubinstein, Daniel C Cohn-Sherbok, Abraham J Edelheit, William D Rubinstein, The Jews in the Modern World, Oxford University Press, 2002.
- ^ "Jewish Massacre Denounced," in The New York Times, April 28, 1903, p. 6
This age is known by the Fathers as an "age of confusion". Once again, many parts of our world live in times of apostasy away from Christ, and -- not unexpectedly -- the "christs", "eschatologists" and "saviours" have multiplied again, affecting even baptised Orthodox. Even "the elect will be deceived", the Bible reminds us.The Moldova pogrom which was lead by Orthodox priests.
Evidence to match the claims has failed to eventuate. Most of the bodies in the mass graves wore uniforms. They were casualties of war, not ethnic cleansing.Of course the Serbian Orthodox ethinic cleansing was much much worse than any Catholic infraction I have heard about
Yep, that's me over there, though I don't spend much time there since the mass banning of Orthodox members from Catholic Forums.It would appear that perhaps you, under the username prodromos, over at the Catholic Forums participated in a similar thread in which the Communist nature of the allegations were made.
Evidence to match the claims has failed to eventuate. Most of the bodies in the mass graves wore uniforms. They were casualties of war, not ethnic cleansing.
John
Oh I don't deny that civilians were killed, and yes it was in response to the Muslims launching a long series of attacks from the UN safe area of Srebenica, not a handful. Despite the outrage the Serbians held towards the blatant abuse of the UN safe area, they did not engage in what has been labelled as "ethnic cleansing" because they provided safe transport for the Muslim women and children out of the area before they attacked. When you wish to remove a particular ethnic identity from your land, you do not usually protect the ones who give birth to further generations of the same. Srebenica was the result of a long and blatant provacation of the Serbians by the Muslims. It doesn't justify the slaughter, but it certainly gives ample explanation for why it happened.In a possible explanation for what may have motivated the massacres, Bosnian Serbs bitterly accused Srebrenica's Muslim military commander, Nasir Oric, of massacring some 1,300 Serb civilians in fighting in the area in 1992. UN officials say Mr. Oric, who played a videotape of murdered Serb civilians to Western reporters in 1994, did launch a handful of subsequent raids from the theoretically demilitarized UN "safe area" of Srebrenica.
But the clothes, documents, and digging at the two sites, which are 10 to 15 miles from the main escape route used by fleeing Muslims and appeared to be no more than a few months old, were overwhelming evidence that civilians were massacred:
Muslims also murdered Serbian children and raped Serbian women. What evidence is provided by Red Cross that 12,000 children were killed and what is the ethnic identity of the children?I am sorry but you are wrong according to the International Red Cross a Christian Organization over 12,000 children alone were killed.Not to mention the rape and civilain adult killings.
The Red Cross also fails to realize that the areas of Germany bombed during WWII by the Allies were not centers of industry, but were rather centers of culture and places where civilians lived.I am sorry but you are wrong according to the International Red Cross a Christian Organization over 12,000 children alone were killed.Not to mention the rape and civilain adult killings. Sorry you have to swallow this bitter pill but in this instance the Orthodox were the murderers. The Red Cross did not make up the mass graves.
The Red Cross also fails to realize that the areas of Germany bombed during WWII by the Allies were not centers of industry, but were rather centers of culture and places where civilians lived.
When Montgomery's brother was killed he demanded that every German city with a population over 100,000 be leveled into rubble.
Point is, the Red Cross can be bought.
Now, all that I was saying with regards to JPII is that he beatified a Croatian Cardinal who supported the Ustashe, supported the mass killings of Orthodox Serbs, supported the forced conversions of many Orthodox Serbs and helped the Nazis, Fascists and Ustashe get out of Europe to South American countries so they would not face extradition and consequently not face trials at Nuremburg.
How does that Croatian Cardinal affect JPII? JPII beatified that man and therefore due to that beatification I personally think that JPII can not be and should not be recognized a saint within the Roman Catholic Church. In terms of Roman Catholic-Orthodox Relations, that would set things as far back as the Sack of Constantinople in 1204.
Livindesert, I would suggest you cease the finger-pointing since it is irrelevant and counter-productive to the point of this thread which is the opinions on the beatification and possible canonization of JPII. If you would like to finger point the faults of individuals based upon biased journalism and falsified information, than by all means begin a separate thread.
Getting back onto the topic, as much as a great guy and great pope JPII was I don't think he can rightly be recognized a saint for beatifying a war criminal, a Ustashi Fascist and a collaborator, but you know what? That's just me
E.C. you make a call to end the finger pointing right after trashing the Red Cross? that is kinda hypocritical don't you think?
We recognize we are sinners, as we cite it every week in the Nicene creed and pray for forgiveness daily. I would suggest that you do the same, and pray to work on your unhealthy hatred and obsession over the ORthodox and their church. Whatever brought you up to this present state, seek help in overcoming it. It is not good for your soul.It is sad that the Orthodox on this thread cannot take out the plank in there own eye but love to smear someone like JPII.
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