How Just is God's Justice?

[LogicalFallacy]

The Bible states:
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men...”—1 Timothy 2:5, 6. (NIV)


God’s sense of justice is expressed through verses such as;


Exodus 21:24-25;

“Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise”

Leviticus 24:19-21

“If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death. Anyone who takes the life of someone’s animal must make restitution-life for life. If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured. Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but who ever kills a man must be put to death.”


The Bible quite clearly shows that if there is deliberate or negligent wrongdoing, then God requires some kind of equal punishment to be exacted from the wrongdoer. Today because the ransom has already been paid for us we have to ask for forgiveness through the name of the ransomer Jesus Christ. Only sincere repentance in the name of Jesus will negate justice eventually being exacted from us.


Jesus Christ, no more and no less than a perfect human, became a corresponding ransom that compensated exactly for what Adam lost—the right to perfect human life on earth. This equality in Justice from God is why it was correctly said regarding Jesus;


1Corinithians 15:22

“Just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”


The perfect human life of Jesus was the “ransom” required by divine justice to redeem us, no more, no less. A basic principle even of human justice is that the price paid should fit the wrong committed.


It was only a perfect human, Adam, who sinned in Eden, not a God-Man. So for the ransom, to be truly in line with God’s justice, it had to be strictly an equivalent—a perfect human, Thus, when God sent Jesus to earth as the ransom, he made Jesus to be what would satisfy justice, not an incarnation, not a god-man, but just simply a perfect man,



LogicalFallacy,

 

[emerald Dragon]

An excellent interpretaition. One that I hadn't thought of. It makes sense. Yes, Jesus had to come to earth as a mortal, while still having the nature of the divine, but still a mortal. He was perfect, but human. He willingly gave up part of His divine nature for His mission, in order to fullfill the laws. You have made an excellent point. Good for you.

As a side note, 1Corinithians 15:22 has a second meaning, than the one that you mentioned. With the fall in the Garden, man went from being immortal to being mortal. With the ressurection of Christ, man can once agian be immortal, and be ressurected ourselves with a perfect body.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

 

[LogicalFallacy]

An excellent interpretaition. One that I hadn't thought of. It makes sense. Yes, Jesus had to come to earth as a mortal, while still having the nature of the divine, but still a mortal. He was perfect, but human. He willingly gave up part of His divine nature for His mission, in order to fullfill the laws. You have made an excellent point. Good for you.

As a side note, 1Corinithians 15:22 has a second meaning, than the one that you mentioned. With the fall in the Garden, man went from being immortal to being mortal. With the ressurection of Christ, man can once agian be immortal, and be ressurected ourselves with a perfect body.

God Bless,
Emerald Dragon

Thanks for the nice reply eD,
I think however that we maybe at odds as to whether Adam was immortal in the Garden of Eden!
To be immortal would mean that you cannot die, but Adam did die.
Also you assert that Jesus still had the nature of the divine while on earth, but the gist of my post was that for Christ to be qualified to give his life as the ransom, he had to be the exact equivalent of Adam. That would then mean that you have to make Adam into a "part divine being" for christ to be an equivilent, which he was not!

With Thanks,
LogicalFallacy,

 

[usetheforce]

Adam only "died" after eating of the Fruit and then being Cast Out of the Garden.
The Bible and latter-day Scriptures are clear as to mans nature while in the Garden.
They were Immortal while in the Garden before partaking of the Fruit, God Himself said so.
Sin coming into the world caused both Spiritual and Physical death.

According to latter-day scripture, during the Millinium Satan will be bound, thus sin will not be in the world, and man will be "translated", not tasting of death.
This further makes it clear the real power of sin, as well as the power of Perfection and Righteousness.

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Adam only "died" after eating of the Fruit and then being Cast Out of the Garden.
The Bible and latter-day Scriptures are clear as to mans nature while in the Garden.
They were Immortal while in the Garden before partaking of the Fruit, God Himself said so.
Sin coming into the world caused both Spiritual and Physical death.

According to latter-day scripture, during the Millinium Satan will be bound, thus sin will not be in the world, and man will be "translated", not tasting of death.
This further makes it clear the real power of sin, as well as the power of Perfection and Righteousness.

To be immortal means just that, you will not die regardless of the surrounding circumstances, but to be given the reward of life, as Adam was in the Garden, is circumstantial. If he breaks the rules set out by God then that reward can, and was taken back from him.
He was not immortal in the garden, it defeats the very meaning of the word immortal!
LogicalFallacy,

 

[LogicalFallacy]

I think that you using the word "immortal" is far too strong, I would simply say that Adam had a chance of everlasting life.

LogicalFallacy,

 

[LightBearer]

I think that you using the word "immortal" is far too strong, I would simply say that Adam had a chance of everlasting life.

LogicalFallacy,

Just a thought here. If adam was immortal before he sinned then Jesus would have had to be immortal to be the equivilent of the perfect Adam. Since Jesus was without sin he would therfore had retained his immortality. He could not have been immortal while on earth although a perfect man because he did die. Therefore Adam could not have been immortal while a perfect man.

Regards,

LB

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Just a thought here. If adam was immortal before he sinned then Jesus would have had to be immortal to be the equivilent of the perfect Adam. Since Jesus was without sin he would therfore had retained his immortality. He could not have been immortal while on earth although a perfect man because he did die. Therefore Adam could not have been immortal while a perfect man.

Regards,

LB

Exactly! People forget that when they make Jesus out to be all the things that the Bible clearly says he isn't, they also have to prove from scripture that Adam was the same thing aswell. God's justice is perfect, "an eye for an eye"!!!

LogicalFallacy,

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

Just a thought here. If adam was immortal before he sinned then Jesus would have had to be immortal to be the equivilent of the perfect Adam. Since Jesus was without sin he would therfore had retained his immortality. He could not have been immortal while on earth although a perfect man because he did die. Therefore Adam could not have been immortal while a perfect man.


LB

Adam proved not to be immortal only because of sin. If he had not sinned, he would have never known death. You are saying that he was mortal because he died. I am saying that he was mortal because he sinned. That is the reason that he died.

Jesus was without sin. He was also sent to be the savior of the world. He had a mortal body because of the fall of Adam, just as we do. The key is the circumstances around his death. He died and was resurrected to immortality because of his divine nature. Christ was made immortal through his perfect life and his own atoning sacrifice.

 

[blessedbe]

So, COULD Jesus have sinned?? Could he have sinned and messed up the whole plan?? If you make him out to be ONLY man and nothing more, he could have messed up the whole redemption plan. What then? Would God have picked out another angel and sent him???

 

[LightBearer]

Adam proved not to be immortal only because of sin. If he had not sinned, he would have never known death. You are saying that he was mortal because he died. I am saying that he was mortal because he sinned. That is the reason that he died.

Jesus was without sin. He was also sent to be the savior of the world. He had a mortal body because of the fall of Adam, just as we do. The key is the circumstances around his death. He died and was resurrected to immortality because of his divine nature. Christ was made immortal through his perfect life and his own atoning sacrifice.

Jesus did not inherit anything from Adam; he was not his father Jehovah was. Luke 1:32
This is why Jesus was born perfect and without sin. Perfect, but mortal just as Adam was.

This is why he could provide the ransom sacrifice.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all..........

That is, an exact equivalent of the perfect Adam to perfectly satisfy Jehovah's perfect justice, like for like. A perfect mortal man for a perfect mortal man.

Regards,

LB

 

[lared]

Yes, Jesus could have sinned.

However, Almighty God Jehovah picked Jesus because he knew he could count on him.

We may ask a good friend or even a son or daughter to fullfill a responsible assignment that may put that one in a precarious situation. Knowing the individual and observing them in various circumstances would build our trust in that particular person to carry out the assigned task.

 

[LogicalFallacy]

So, COULD Jesus have sinned?? Could he have sinned and messed up the whole plan?? If you make him out to be ONLY man and nothing more, he could have messed up the whole redemption plan. What then? Would God have picked out another angel and sent him???

Of course Jesus could have sinned! It would have been pointless sending him if there was no possible chance of sin, what would that prove? - Luke 4:2-13. The question that you need to reflect on is; could Adam NOT have sinned?
We are talking about an exact equality between the two, Adam and Jesus.
LF,

 

[LogicalFallacy]

Man do I love being JW,

We all answer the same or a similar thing in the space of 2 min's without conffering, is that consistant teaching or is just me?

LF,

 

[LightBearer]

Man do I love being JW,

We all answer the same or a similar thing in the space of 2 min's without confering, is that consistant teaching or is just me?

LF,

1 Corinthians 1:10. . .Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.

It's called, being a member of Jehovah's Christian Congregation.

LB

 

[GOD'S ARMY]

No, Jesus was foreordained to be the savior. He was not just a man. This was not just something that God threw together. He made sure of the important parts. I never said Jesus was just a man. I said he had a mortal body. That is about as close to us as he comes, and for that I am thankful. Don't try to twist my words to fit your agenda.

 

[lared]

Man do I love being JW,

We all answer the same or a similar thing in the space of 2 min's without conffering, is that consistant teaching or is just me?

LF,

It is unity that is not found in christendom.
We base our beliefs upon the Bible rather then philosophies, creeds, or traditions.
Many Witnesses do not use the New World Translation because it is not available in their native tongue.
We also reason from the Scriptures and understand the complete picture.
We have gathered all the jigsaw puzzle pieces and have put them together to form a most beautiful picture.
Our understanding of the Scriptures is all interconnected so that we know God's purpose for the earth, why we are here, why conditions are so bad, what the future holds, why God allows suffering, and many more. And we can answer all of these questions harmoniously.
And then to top it off......we just don't sit at home with this knowledge of God but actively proclaim it in some 235 lands.....diligently proclaiming the good news of the kingdom to the tune of over 1 billion hours per year. And millions are responding.

Today I conduct two Bible studies. One with a nonreligious person whose family has fallen away from christendom a number of years ago and then another with a Buddhist from Asia. It is a most satisfying thing to see the veil come off of eyes that have been veiled. It is like a blind person seeing for the very first time. .......So many times, they tell me how the teachings of christendom make no sense. (And I don't prompt this response.) But God's Word the Bible coupled with common sense reasoning and of course Jehovah's Holy Spirit can make it grow.

Almighty God Jehovah is the revealer of secrets and deserves all of our due worship, love, and appreciation.

Lared

 

[LogicalFallacy]

No, Jesus was foreordained to be the savior. He was not just a man. This was not just something that God threw together. He made sure of the important parts. I never said Jesus was just a man. I said he had a mortal body. That is about as close to us as he comes, and for that I am thankful. Don't try to twist my words to fit your agenda.

but he had to be "just a man", because otherwise you would have to negate true justice, or you would have to make Adam something more than just a man, he wasn't, therefore your argument is unscriptual!
LF,

 

[ukok]

It is unity that is not found in christendom.

I think the sentimentality is twee, but c'mon folks..how many are disfellowshipped annually in the WTS ???..that's real unity...

 

[gort]

LB quote:


1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all..........

That is, an exact equivalent of the perfect Adam to perfectly satisfy Jehovah's perfect justice, like for like. A perfect mortal man for a perfect mortal man.

Regards,

LB

Hello,

May I ask which translation of Bible you are using for 1 Tinothy 2:5-6 ?

It's that word "corresponding" that seems to be a little different.


thanx

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