How is the Trinity not polytheism?

[Beautiful Ignorance]

I fail to understand how the Trinity is not polytheism. As far as I can tell, Christians worship three gods, not one.

 

[dewba]

Jesus is/was God; God living as a human being. The "Holy Spirit" is God. God is God. It helps some people better understand Him.

He has many names and people who have been close to God have given Him their own "nicknames." For example, in the Old Testament (Genesis 16:13), Hagar starts calling him "El-roi" or "the God who sees me." One could easily say that God only has one name and that it's a sin to call Him anything but, but it's not and He doesn't...there is only one...

God never said, "you're only allowed to call me this." He just said "don't worship any others gods besides me" (Exodus 20:3).

 

[abysmul]

I am a dad. I am an employee of the company I work for. I am a Christian. I am an American citizen. I am a friend. I am son. I am a brother. Am I more than one person?

 

[Faulty]

He reveals Himself as three persons, each with their own attributes, feelings, acts, and yet as a single God.

If you are able to wrap your head around the full complexities of the revealed Trinity, you are a better person than I. There is just a point where we accept He says what He means, and know there is an eternity before us in which to explore the depths of God further.

 

[hedrick]

Please see my response to a similar question: http://www.christianforums.com/t7605243-2/#post58970054

Basically the Trinity says that God experiences existence in three ways, but he's not three separate things. I think talking about 3 persons tends to mislead people. We think of a person as a separate thing, with its own body, its own memory, it's own will, etc. The Greek work behind the English "person" was a bit different. They meant that God could experience a relationship in himself, so he had three centers of relationship. But otherwise he is closer to a single human. In particular, God has only one will, so there's really only one decision-maker.

This is why Christians will talk about 3 Persons, but won't say as we would in normal English 3 people.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Please see my response to a similar question: http://www.christianforums.com/t7605243-2/#post58970054

Basically the Trinity says that God experiences existence in three ways, but he's not three separate things. I think talking about 3 persons tends to mislead people. We think of a person as a separate thing, with its own body, its own memory, it's own will, etc. The Greek work behind the English "person" was a bit different. They meant that God could experience a relationship in himself, so he had three centers of relationship. But otherwise he is closer to a single human. In particular, God has only one will, so there's really only one decision-maker.

This is why Christians will talk about 3 Persons, but won't say as we would in normal English 3 people.

In light of this please explain the following passage. How does this passage illustrate that God has but one will?

New International Version (©1984)
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

 

[salida]

The term God means authority essence and power. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are equal here but they are three persons and they each have different functions on how they deal with mankind.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I fail to understand how the Trinity is not polytheism. As far as I can tell, Christians worship three gods, not one.

Because we worship one God, not three.

In the Western Christian tradition we have what's called the Athanasian Creed, it's not used by our brothers and sisters in the East, but we have it as a sort of technical explanation of the Trinity and what we mean. It begins very clearly saying we "worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity". We are neither dividing the essence, nor confounding the Hypostases (or "Persons"). We are confessing one and only one God, who is of one and only one Essence, Nature, Being and Substance.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Harry3142]

Beautiful Ignorance-

Your question is one that requires Scripture itself to be answered:

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. (I Corinthians 15:20-28,NIV)

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished - he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:19-26,NIV)

God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." (Matthew 12:30-32,NIV)

We recognize Jesus as being the Son of God, whose reign will end after The End of Days. We recognize the person we call 'God the Father' as that facet of God who rules the universe, and who sent his Son, Jesus Christ, so that he could reconcile a people to himself who could not be reconciled through our own efforts.

But when we refer to the Holy Spirit (technically, The Spirit That is Set Aside From All Others), we are referring to the very core of God himself. It was the Spirit that hovered over the void in Genesis 1. It was the Spirit who caused a virgin to become pregnant with God's own Son in Matthew 1:20 and Luke 1:35. It was the Spirit who led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted of Satan in Matthew 4:1. And it is the Spirit who engages our own sinful nature in battle, 'reining it in' and giving us the emotions (the 9 'fruit') that we need in order to fulfil what God wants of us in Galatians 5:16-26. In other words, virtually every action which God performed in Scripture has been performed through the Holy Spirit.

 

[drich0150]

I fail to understand how the Trinity is not polytheism. As far as I can tell, Christians worship three gods, not one.

How many goverments do we have in this country? Yet it is divided into three seperate but equal parts... How can one country have a goverment that is divided into three parts, and still only have one goverment?

Could it be that each part repersents one incarnation of that goverment?

So that would mean the word goverment is not an exclusive term describing just one aspect of a greater whole.

In polytheism There would be a "god" in control of a different aspect of nature. The sun, Moon, seasons ect.. That would be like one seperate Goverment (Legslative, Juduical and congressional branch) in control of each individual state, that was independant from the others.

 

[hedrick]

In light of this please explain the following passage. How does this passage illustrate that God has but one will?

New International Version (©1984)
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

This is dealt with in the Incarnation, not the Trinity.

In the incarnation we have two natures, human and God, each with its own will. Thus this is the human will obeying God's.

That's why I caution people that most questions people have about the Trinity are actually questions about the Incarnation.

 

[razeontherock]

Our OP has had more than enough really good answers, but let me point out Scripture speaks of the 7 Spirits of God, and also the 4 faces of Ezekiel's living creatures. Trinity is not the conflict to G-d's Oneness that is claimed ...

 

[Publius]

There is a lot of Sabellianism in this thread.

God is one God, revealed in three seperate and distinct persons, not one god who just manifests different characteristics of himself.

The Son is an seperate and distinct person from the Father, who is a seperate and distinct person from the Holy Spirit, who is a seperate and distinct person from the Son.

 

[elopez]

I fail to understand how the Trinity is not polytheism. As far as I can tell, Christians worship three gods, not one.

The Trinity teaches one God existent in three persons. Monotheism is the belief in one God so a belief in the Trinity is monotheistic. Polytheism is the belief in multiple gods not three persons.

You must redefine either the Trinity or polytheism in order to logically state the Trinity is polytheistic which amounts to nothing but fallacious reasoning.

 

[grasping the after wind]

This is dealt with in the Incarnation, not the Trinity.

In the incarnation we have two natures, human and God, each with its own will. Thus this is the human will obeying God's.

That's why I caution people that most questions people have about the Trinity are actually questions about the Incarnation.

Thank you for the explanation. I find that the preaching of hell and the doctrine of Trinity are the two most difficult for people to accept and the two biggest hurdles for non Christians accepting the Gospel. I believe this occurs because the vast majority of Christians and non Christians do not understand and cannot find a way to even conceive of the ideas behind the Trinity as it is so paradoxical and that they can not reconcile the idea of hell with a just and merciful God. Finding ways of explaining both of these in a way that makes sense to our human minds is an extreme challenge and I commend anyone that is adept at it.

 

[Aeneas]

We aren't supposed to be able to understand and explain the Trinity.

"Anyone who tries to describe the ineffable Light in language is truly a liar--not because he hates the truth, but because of the inadequacy of language." --St. Gregory of Nyssa

 

[IndieVisible]

The trinity is a difficult concept to grasp and indeed may not even be totally accurate, in the end we will find out, for now it does seem to be the best we have.

The problem really is we live in a 3 dimensional world and GOD being INFINITE does not. So our understanding is based on what we know in this 3-D world.

If you go by scripture, there is no trinity there, only thing clearly pointed out is that Jesus was God, and God is Spirit. If you conducted a extensive scripture work out you could build a case to make a "third person" out of the Holy Spirit. But the trinity did not come directly from scripture, it came from tradition. It took many years after the death of Jesus for it to start to take shape. And there was disagreement to it's full meaning for the first 300 years!

I do not believe grasping this concept is essential for your salvation, as I do not believe any of us really come close to the TRUE FULL concept of GOD. The Trinity is merely the best attempt we have at the moment.

If all you believed is what you got out of the NT, that would be enough IMHO!

 

[chilehed]

I fail to understand how the Trinity is not polytheism. As far as I can tell, Christians worship three gods, not one.

You're stuck in your experience that you are one being which is one person.

But there are all kinds of beings that are not one person. Rocks, for example. Or horseshoe crabs.

So you see that not all beings are also one person.

Which opens up the possibility that there can be a being which is more than one person. That being is God.

This discussion by Frank Sheed is one of the best I've ever read:
The Trinity: Three Persons in One Nature | Frank Sheed | From "Theology and Sanity" | Ignatius Insight

 

[IndieVisible]

You're stuck in your experience that you are one being which is one person.

But there are all kinds of beings that are not one person. Rocks, for example. Or horseshoe crabs.

So you see that not all beings are also one person.

Which opens up the possibility that there can be a being which is more than one person. That being is God.

This discussion by Frank Sheed is one of the best I've ever read:
The Trinity: Three Persons in One Nature | Frank Sheed | From "Theology and Sanity" | Ignatius Insight

There have been many great books that explain the trinity and help one formulate as such from seemingly no scripture doctrine and create one.

The point is simply this, one should not need to read books to understand the trinity. It's either in the NT or it's not. Most scholars agree, it's not in the NT and was not developed until much later on.

One can make a good case that there were hints of it in the bible and that it took many years for the idea to full be revealed and take shape.

Can the trinity be true? Of course. Can it be false? Perhaps. Do we need it for our salvation? Nope.

So why is it the main doctrine and most important "test" of Christianity? Because people are strange. We could all agree on every thing, and still find some thing new to make our "test" if true Christianity.

If we simply go by what is written, and nothing more or less, we are more then ok!

If you want to read between the lines, buy some more books

 

[DamianWarS]

Christians believe in God as eternally existent within 3 persons namely the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We believe in God this way because the scripture reveals these unique characteristics of God and identifies them as separate but at the same time it has an uncompromising view that there is one 1 God. The doctrine of the trinity is not there to fully explain God but it serves as a method to describe God as the scripture has reveled him. In the end it is the finite (humans) trying to explain the infinite (God) so it will always be limited. If you do not believe in the trinity but still in a concept of God I'm sure there are aspects of God that you agree that extends beyond your own understanding and that God exists as more than an old man who sits on a throne in heaven.

Love is one of the driving forces fundamentally behind Christianity. God extends his love desiring relationship with us and we are inherently relational being created with a inner desire to reach back to God. This describes God as himself inherently relational and of love, in fact a common expression in Christianity is "God is love". If you grammatically look at the word love or relationship it demands at least 2 parties to be involved. 1. The lover, and 2. the loved. So in order to love you need a lover. However God is limitless in all ways and is in need of nothing so how then can God love if he requires us at its core to extend his love yet also need nothing? Well this is why the trinity works because before all of creation there was God eternally existent and inherently relational. If God existed as one unit it would be impossible for him to be inherently relational because who then is he having relationship with? So this means that God must exist beyond simply a "one unit God" he is relational.

3 is the perfect number because it perfectly express relationship. 1 person is no relationship. 2 persons is an undefined relationship as there is nothing to contrast with it to give it definition and it can only be a-b. But 3 persons is the first time contrast is introduced. there is a-b, a-c, b-c and a-b-c describing 3 unique relationships each being able to contrast itself and a 4th joint relationship. So this is why the doctrine of the trinity works, as it defines God as inherently relational