How is it possible to worship a false God?

[Ram]

Jai Shri Ram!

How is my friend? It's been a while indeed. Of course, You haven't missed much just some propaganda by some (you know who I mean).

satay

Propaganda?

 

[Bill Insgate]

Is there such a thing

 

[arunma]

What about the millions of images and drawings of Jesus you see on every wall in South India? If you travel by bus anywhere in Kerala or Tamil Nadu, you can see virtually every christian home having the picture of Jesus on thier walls along with a verse from bible. So most of the christians are also idolators - that is some consolation.

I have no problem with secular artwork depicting Jesus. My issue is with church icons of Jesus that are used in worship (in the Catholic and Orthodox churches). And even then, I recognize the difference between icons and idols.

On a sidenote, I've never been impressed with the Kerala churches. I'm told that some churches actually house idols of false Hindu gods, and that Kerala Christians incorporate Hindu scriptures into their services. So I do have other issues with them.

But what or who is the Lord? Have you seen him or spoken to him? How did you know your Lord is the true one - just based on some hearsay?

If by "hearsay," you mean the testimony of Moses, the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles, then absolutely. We believe that this testimony is trustworthy. You'll have to forgive me for not believing that Hindu yogis acutally talk to God.

 

[philips]

On a sidenote, I've never been impressed with the Kerala churches. I'm told that some churches actually house idols of false Hindu gods, and that Kerala Christians incorporate Hindu scriptures into their services. So I do have other issues with them.

That is mostly untrue. However, they do take part in local Hindu customs that do not compromise their beliefs. I'm not sure about the Orthodox and Catholic churches in Kerala though.

 

[Ram]

Hi arunma,

Hope you are doing well.

I have no problem with secular artwork depicting Jesus. My issue is with church icons of Jesus that are used in worship (in the Catholic and Orthodox churches). And even then, I recognize the difference between icons and idols.

Icons and idols? Any symbol is an idol. And hey, it is good. I like these Catholics and Orthodox churches.

On a sidenote, I've never been impressed with the Kerala churches. I'm told that some churches actually house idols of false Hindu gods, and that Kerala Christians incorporate Hindu scriptures into their services. So I do have other issues with them.

Being a Keralite, I am sometimes impressed with these churches. It seems they are enlightened. As you might be aware, Christians in Kerala are among the better citizens of India. I know many christians who are running charitable institutions and help everyone regardless of religion without "conversion attempts". In Tamil Nadu, the story I hear about such institutions is not good. So it is 50-50.

If by "hearsay," you mean the testimony of Moses, the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles, then absolutely. We believe that this testimony is trustworthy. You'll have to forgive me for not believing that Hindu yogis acutally talk to God.

Yes, that is hearsay if you beleive in testimonies a thousand years old. But I dont refute the claim that Jesus was a very great person, and I am not jealous of his stature.

Yogis dont talk to God with their mouth by the way. Realization of the God is a perception of the soul, and is not describable in human words. When Yogis come out of their meditative trance, they are able to describe their experiences in some way that makes sense to others. There are thousands of Yogis today. I choose to beleive in a testimony that is available today to the one available two thousand years old.

Is there any good reason you deny the greatness of Yogis other than the fact their words contradicts the bible, something you believe in due to mere blind faith? Actually they dont contradict the bible, except in a literal sense. Most of the scriptural texts convey the same inner meanings, though it may not be too obvious to ppl who just think too highly of themselves.

 

[Saraswati-Devi]

I have no problem with secular artwork depicting Jesus. My issue is with church icons of Jesus that are used in worship (in the Catholic and Orthodox churches). And even then, I recognize the difference between icons and idols.

On a sidenote, I've never been impressed with the Kerala churches. I'm told that some churches actually house idols of false Hindu gods, and that Kerala Christians incorporate Hindu scriptures into their services. So I do have other issues with them.


If by "hearsay," you mean the testimony of Moses, the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles, then absolutely. We believe that this testimony is trustworthy. You'll have to forgive me for not believing that Hindu yogis acutally talk to God.

.

I guess wearing a cross on your neck is not "Idol worshipping" huh....

 

[bouncer]

.

I guess wearing a cross on your neck is not "Idol worshipping" huh....

It's not if nobody pray to it. If they do, it is. By the way, Christians do acknowledge that they're guilty of idol worship in one form or the other.

 

[Saraswati-Devi]

It's not if nobody pray to it. If they do, it is. By the way, Christians do acknowledge that they're guilty of idol worship in one form or the other.

Thanks for acknowledging this... May I ask a question though... How would one pray to a cross?

 

[bouncer]

Thanks for acknowledging this... May I ask a question though... How would one pray to a cross?

I don't know...I don't know anybody that does, really.

 

[vedickings]

vedickings makes a good point. You continually throw around Christian in-words, that are a sort of jargon, but have not really confronted his question head on.

An additional question I would add is: why does the Christian God have such a pride issue? If he is indeed all-loving, he should see each human as a person striving for happiness. Why should it make a difference to him what they believe? Does he require re-assurance, or what?

I agree with this, as in Christians have so much pride in the Bible that they will say anything to keep that pride, which is that theire God is the real God, and all others are man made, which IMO is no differents then the Bible God, well there is one different this Bible God is jealous, more so human.

 

[Saraswati-Devi]

I don't know...I don't know anybody that does, really.

Thank You Bouncer.... But, I've seen Christians when they're in time of need... hold their cross in their hands and kiss it.... what is that considered?

 

[bouncer]

Thank You Bouncer.... But, I've seen Christians when they're in time of need... hold their cross in their hands and kiss it.... what is that considered?

They're trying to draw inspiration and support from the cross, taking it as a representation of Christs' own suffering. But it's not something that I do or recommend. I think thats dangerously close to idol worship. I guess it depends on each individuals personal intent.

 

[vedickings]

They're trying to draw inspiration and support from the cross, taking it as a representation of Christs' own suffering. But it's not something that I do or recommend. I think thats dangerously close to idol worship. I guess it depends on each individuals personal intent.

Why is it dangerous? Its still God in mind.

 

[vedickings]

I mean, is it dangreous to drink water from a cup, when its the water you are thinking about? No the cup is helpful.

 

[bouncer]

I agree with this, as in Christians have so much pride in the Bible that they will say anything to keep that pride, which is that theire God is the real God, and all others are man made, which IMO is no differents then the Bible God, well there is one different this Bible God is jealous, more so human.

It's not about pride. The reasoning goes like this:
1. There is only one God.
2. According to the Bible, God incarnated as Jesus and died for our sins.
3. no other religion acknowledges this, therefore they must be false.

I'm not saying that the above argument is valid or sound, thats just the thinking because of the nature of our religion. Nothing to do with pride.

It's not personal Vedickings, it's strictly religion.

 

[Saraswati-Devi]

They're trying to draw inspiration and support from the cross, taking it as a representation of Christs' own suffering. But it's not something that I do or recommend. I think thats dangerously close to idol worship. I guess it depends on each individuals persnal intent.

Oh... okay... but if they're trying to draw inspiration and support due to Christ's suffering, how is that dangerous? If you hold this Holy Cross and your mind is set on Jesus, wouldn't he not come and Rescue you (so to say) from whenever your in desperation? I thought the biggest message in Christianity is this?... Jesus dying on the cross for our sins....right?


Please forgive me if I sound silly for asking, this is something I'd love to know...

 

[bouncer]

Oh... okay... but if they're trying to draw inspiration and support due to Christ's suffering, how is that dangerous? If you hold this Holy Cross and your mind is set on Jesus, wouldn't he not come and Rescue you (so to say) from whenever your in desperation? I thought the biggest message in Christianity is this?... Jesus dying on the cross for our sins....right?

It's only dangerous because it could cause one to lose focus on God himself and instead focus more on the object - the cross. If you're able to distinguish between the two that's fine, if not, it's a sin.

 

[vedickings]

It's not about pride. The reasoning goes like this:
1. There is only one God.
2. According to the Bible, God incarnated as Jesus and died for our sins.
3. no other religion acknowledges this, therefore they must be false.

I'm not saying that the above argument is valid or sound, thats just the thinking because of the nature of our religion. Nothing to do with pride.

It's not personal Vedickings, it's strictly religion.

I understand,

But, that just a book, what does your heart say?

 

[vedickings]

It's only dangerous because it could cause one to lose focus on God himself and instead focus more on the object - the cross. If you're able to distinguish between the two that's fine, if not, it's a sin.

And you say God is a he, that still an object in mind, which refers to all male objects on earth.

 

[bouncer]

And you say God is a he, that still an object in mind, which refers to all male objects on earth.

Well, no, He is used because there is nothing else in the englush language suitable to call God. When praying to God, nothing is in my mind. Then again, like I said it depends on what the individual focuses on. Is it God or a human made object. It really is an individual thing. As long as you recognize that a man-made object is not God, or cannot take the place of God, you're fine.