How is it done?

Biblicist

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Have you ever known a Christian who exuded the peace and presence of God? I'm not writing about some TV idol, but a nobody of whom the world seems entirely unaware.

What did they do to get there? You have any idea?
That's a great question; I've certainly met believers who have displayed a high level of godly bearing over the years but as to how they have produced this fruit that can be a hard one to answer. We should remind ourselves that even religious and the more upright unsaved can display similar attributes.

One thing I have certainly observed, is that many such people were raised from childhood within godly homes so their temperament, character and personalities were heavily effected by their parental upbringing and the healthy cultural environment that they primarily resided in.
 
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hopeinGod

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I agree that our histories and family dysfunction set us on a course of searching, then when we found Christ, we thought all those backlashes of poor beginnings would somehow fade away instantly. But, as was the case for most of us, those burdens didn't simply disappear because we spoke a few words heavenward.

In my seach, I spent time studying and applying the insights of John Bradshaw, especially his writings on family dysfunction, influences still at work that are lasting and extremely difficult to replace or dissolve into nothing, and what is today known as inner child work. Change took place in me, but still, to this day, my family of origin cannot gather with one another without the chaos and madness that has accompanied our family for decades.

Just because we meet folks who believe in Jesus and talk similarly, we think we have found a home; but when a new kind of disillusionment and chaos sprouts out of of extremism and error, we are again faced with doing our best to flee the worst and hold on to the best. It's a cycle that never ends. In many ways, the dysfunction within the church is as prominent and pervasive as the dysfunction within families, so it can, for many of us, be hard to call the Church "home," as it too needs restoration, cleaning and the ridding of personalities and doctrinal errors that have led countless brothers and sisters into a kind of existential meaninglessness that isn't easy to overcome.

We say, "stop the world, I want off (or out of it)" when we realize the side effects of secularism, but there comes a time when we seem to desperately need to stop involvement in anything organized within the church world. The balance is surely a challenge to uncover.
 
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Biblicist

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I agree that our histories and family dysfunction set us on a course of searching, then when we found Christ, we thought all those backlashes of poor beginnings would somehow fade away instantly. But, as was the case for most of us, those burdens didn't simply disappear because we spoke a few words heavenward.
I suspect that this would be a very common misconception. I have come to realise that our basic inner self will never be fully transformed until the day that we see the Lord. I think that when it comes to our temperament (which we receive during conception), that the negative effects of this can be very hard to undo. When it comes to our character (what we receive in our early formative years, be it from our parents, family, friends, school or church), this can be more easily changed and when it comes to our personality (the result of our choices) then this should be relatively easy with the help of the Spirit.

Well that’s probably the extent of my knowledge on these things.
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Have you ever known a Christian who exuded the peace and presence of God? I'm not writing about some TV idol, but a nobody of whom the world seems entirely unaware. What did they do to get there? You have any idea?

The Bible gives the short answer. Romans 8:
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Obviously what you're describing is somebody who HAS BEEN "conformed to the image of His Son",

And the process involved in getting there is: all things work together for good

It's also a "given" that NOT ALL THINGS are, in and of themselves, "Good". Whether we allow them to "Work together for good" is the key. We CAN allow them to make us Bitter, judgemental, angry. We CAN cause them to destroy our relationship with God, and other people, or we can simply allow them to assist us in "Dying to self", taking up the cross (our death to self), embracing them, and through the pain, be strengthened, and mellowed.

There's a lie circulating that our "Old man" is changed, and made better by the presence of the Holy Spirit in our lives. In fact it isn't it was, still is, and always WILL BE totally at enmity with God. the ONLY thing that can be done with it is to REFUSE to let it be the "source" that we live out of - it has to be "Rendered ineffective" (Destroyed experientially). And only through "Walking in the SPirit" instead according to our own understanding will we ever get anywhere.

WE can't change - but HE has committed himself to us to do what we can't do.
 
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Andrea411

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I agree that our histories and family dysfunction set us on a course of searching, then when we found Christ, we thought all those backlashes of poor beginnings would somehow fade away instantly. But, as was the case for most of us, those burdens didn't simply disappear because we spoke a few words heavenward.

In my seach, I spent time studying and applying the insights of John Bradshaw, especially his writings on family dysfunction, influences still at work that are lasting and extremely difficult to replace or dissolve into nothing, and what is today known as inner child work. Change took place in me, but still, to this day, my family of origin cannot gather with one another without the chaos and madness that has accompanied our family for decades.

Just because we meet folks who believe in Jesus and talk similarly, we think we have found a home; but when a new kind of disillusionment and chaos sprouts out of of extremism and error, we are again faced with doing our best to flee the worst and hold on to the best. It's a cycle that never ends. In many ways, the dysfunction within the church is as prominent and pervasive as the dysfunction within families, so it can, for many of us, be hard to call the Church "home," as it too needs restoration, cleaning and the ridding of personalities and doctrinal errors that have led countless brothers and sisters into a kind of existential meaninglessness that isn't easy to overcome.

We say, "stop the world, I want off (or out of it)" when we realize the side effects of secularism, but there comes a time when we seem to desperately need to stop involvement in anything organized within the church world. The balance is surely a challenge to uncover.

I relate and am currently not 'involved' in one church.... funny bc I thought I had mastered moving about within the dysfunctional without it touching me. I'm familiar with Bradshaw and have done some inner child work (heavy stuff). I remember puking... ugh. Today those things, family issues rarely cross my mind. I have learned to act not react... its that simple, I don't go there with my family. (I am one of 12 children so family is extensive). The once craziness has drawn itself out, it is not allowed to act out in or around my home. When it does, and of course it tries to, I just quietly leave.
The last church I was fully involved in - was such a shame - I'd been going to a church I loved and was very happy and involved for 3-4 years.... and then I visited a little startup church and thought they really needed help. I'm an encourager and trustworthy, great for prayer commitment and good with new members. The church was two blocks from my house and I thought well God, lets do it.... after about a year there and so so much gossip and dysfunction in this church I faced the pastor about his gossip... every prayer meeting turned into a gossip session. I asked repeatedly not to be told what people told him in private and it was as if he couldn't help himself. He was a dry alcoholic who believes in "one step Jesus and not the 12 steps of AA. Well it wasn't pretty, he did NOT like being faced with the truth and I probably wasn't good about the way I did it, although it was private.
I went back to the last church I'd been in and found it was as if I'd abandoned them and I would project all this negative stuff.... my stuff probably. LOL. So I have home prayer meetings I attend and keep fellowship with a wonderful group of Christians. Life is quiet and peaceful as long as I allow it to be...
God bless, andrea

PS: I don't worry about doctrinal error in the church. I find a church that believes in Jesus and sticks with Him... trying to control other peoples decisions and beliefs are just arguments waiting to pounce PLEASE!!! people have died for each and every one of those errors. Jesus didn't teach us to be flawless He taught us to be loving, they don't mix. I went through the dogma faze.... done with that nonsense. If God gave us all the absolute truth we'd kill people with it... I don't think He could stand us if we were Holy and RIGHT TOO. I'll take holiness over doctrinal correctness everyday.
 
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hopeinGod

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PS: I don't worry about doctrinal error in the church. I find a church that believes in Jesus and sticks with Him... trying to control other peoples decisions and beliefs are just arguments waiting to pounce PLEASE!!! people have died for each and every one of those errors. Jesus didn't teach us to be flawless He taught us to be loving, they don't mix. I went through the dogma faze.... done with that nonsense. If God gave us all the absolute truth we'd kill people with it... I don't think He could stand us if we were Holy and RIGHT TOO. I'll take holiness over doctrinal correctness everyday.

I would like to believe doctrinal error doesn't matter, but I have seen the destructiveness of at least two pervasive movements that saturated the earliest days of my beginnings.

The Sheep shepherding nonsense with its design being that one must be submitted to a "pastor" for his/her entire life direction instilled by frequent counselings with him took a toll on me and others, as did the WOF errors that furnished attendees with methodologies and formulas for the procurement of all the material things to which our lustful hearts felt entitled and kept us from the most expedient purpose of God, to change inwardly through the denial of self and adoption of pertinent biblical principles.

These side roads took time to escape, after which one had to do a good bit of searching to determine what truly is a balanced setting and approach to walking out one's Christian life.

"My people perish due to the lack of knowledge" and "if the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do?" are appropriate verses that speak to the certain-to-come problems that arise in environments void of sound doctrine.
 
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Andrea411

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I would like to believe doctrinal error doesn't matter, but I have seen the destructiveness of at least two pervasive movements that saturated the earliest days of my beginnings.

The Sheep shepherding nonsense with its design being that one must be submitted to a "pastor" for his/her entire life direction instilled by frequent counselings with him took a toll on me and others, as did the WOF errors that furnished attendees with methodologies and formulas for the procurement of all the material things to which our lustful hearts felt entitled and kept us from the most expedient purpose of God, to change inwardly through the denial of self and adoption of pertinent biblical principles.

These side roads took time to escape, after which one had to do a good bit of searching to determine what truly is a balanced setting and approach to walking out one's Christian life.

"My people perish due to the lack of knowledge" and "if the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do?" are appropriate verses that speak to the certain-to-come problems that arise in environments void of sound doctrine.

I didn't say I don't support sound doctrine, I just stopped fighting over it. I saw what I look like when I fight with Mormons (I was LDS) I saw myself... and I applied the same conditions to my negative experiences in church that I had in my family.... what good can God bring from it, bc He makes ALL things come to my good if I allow Him and am REALLY honest with Him. That includes loss of loved ones, molestations, family abandonments etc etc Life has been hard, LOL my therapists have cried... but the Lord has taken ALL my sorrows and turned them into an inner peace that is not easily penetrated by silly arguments. What did you learn from those experiences you would otherwise have not learned. Did the Lord choose that path for you and would you have gone if He had? Can you trust Him when it doesn't seem like it... when I see a big problem forming in my life I begin to Thank the Lord for what He is about to do bc He has turned all those challenges into 'alters of remembrances of His goodness".
God bless, andrea

PS: I have never seen a mormon or a JW converted to Christ by showing them the false doctrines of their church. Only by lovingly sharing Christ as you know Him. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.... so lift Christ and let the dross flow where it will. 2000 years of fighting - better people then me have already fought those battles.... be blessed in His awesome and wonderful presence and others will be too.
 
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hopeinGod

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I didn't say I don't support sound doctrine, I just stopped fighting over it. I saw what I look like when I fight with Mormons (I was LDS) I saw myself... and I applied the same conditions to my negative experiences in church that I had in my family.... what good can God bring from it, bc He makes ALL things come to my good if I allow Him and am REALLY honest with Him. That includes loss of loved ones, molestations, family abandonments etc etc Life has been hard, LOL my therapists have cried... but the Lord has taken ALL my sorrows and turned them into an inner peace that is not easily penetrated by silly arguments. What did you learn from those experiences you would otherwise have not learned. Did the Lord choose that path for you and would you have gone if He had? Can you trust Him when it doesn't seem like it... when I see a big problem forming in my life I begin to Thank the Lord for what He is about to do bc He has turned all those challenges into 'alters of remembrances of His goodness".
God bless, andrea

PS: I have never seen a mormon or a JW converted to Christ by showing them the false doctrines of their church. Only by lovingly sharing Christ as you know Him. Jesus said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me.... so lift Christ and let the dross flow where it will. 2000 years of fighting - better people then me have already fought those battles.... be blessed in His awesome and wonderful presence and others will be too.

Are you familiar, andrea, with Ravi Zacharias' ministry? No one more openly and ably displays the great need we have within the Church to be a truly studied people. In so many churches there is a strong air of anti-intellectualism which I am convinced has set us behind in our growth and ability to convey the message through persuasive exchange.

Apologetics is a relatively new discipline, but is a wonderfully equipping tool in the right hands. Many thousands of people from all religions are coming to Christ through apologetic discourses on campuses all over the world, as are foreign leaders. If you've not heard Ravi, his recordings can be downloaded at RZIM | HELPING THE THINKER BELIEVE. HELPING THE BELIEVER THINK.
 
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Andrea411

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Are you familiar, andrea, with Ravi Zacharias' ministry? No one more openly and ably displays the great need we have within the Church to be a truly studied people. In so many churches there is a strong air of anti-intellectualism which I am convinced has set us behind in our growth and ability to convey the message through persuasive exchange.

Apologetics is a relatively new discipline, but is a wonderfully equipping tool in the right hands. Many thousands of people from all religions are coming to Christ through apologetic discourses on campuses all over the world, as are foreign leaders. If you've not heard Ravi, his recordings can be downloaded at
................................

love Ravi, not just for his logical and intelligent presentation of the scriptures but for his heart for the Lord. The piece that is so often missing when lay people Argue!!! over scripture. Discussing, challenging, disagreeing exhorting are wonderful things. i went to college at 45 bc I love to learn, minored in theology bc I love the Lord and the scriptures. After a year at CARM I was wasted... just so so awash in the negativity of these professing Christians. Of course I still visit the wonderful ones.
I decided that people have genuinely died for their heresies, they believed enough to put their lives in the fire for what I am willing to say is WRONG!!! but not willing to die for it. Who would the Lord listen to, me in my nice safe house or the heretic who puts it all out there for what he/she believes is true to the Lord and I had an epiphany... if the Lord wanted me right He was perfectly capable of making me right but from what I had seen on CARM. HE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO STOMACH THEM IF THEY PRONOUNCED THEMSELVES RIGHT!!! while claiming to be His holy soldiers...
..there is no where in the scriptures that says a person has to have a high IQ or be able to read and write.. yes I know about studying to show thyself.... done. done, and done
I was born again in 1984 and was just as saved the first day as I am today... and all the in between stuff is part of my testimony. I was not meant to argue over scripture I was called to be an encourager and I am truly blessed beyond measure. My walk with the Lord is quiet. peaceful and total... wherever I go I share Christ as I know Him. I share Him, don't push Him on anyone. At work everyone should know I am His and when we talk I talk about Jesus bc thats my center.... that is my testimony. Jesus saved me while I was a cussing atheist and He will save you too.. if you'll ask. People comment that our family is different (my daughter and my husband work at the same place) - they know there is something they like.... I pray they be willing to try this Jesus we found He changed our lives.
Be blessed in His awesome and wonderful presence, andrea

PS: went to RZ site and I just spent $99.00 on Ravi's Foundations of Apologetics... I'll let you know if it helps in my conversations about Christ.... be blessed, andrea
 
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The first person I really noticed that with, was a singer in a small choir. She was mixed in with the others, but seemed to glow. Not visually, and not her smile.. but a presence of God was with her.

I used to notice this difference in God's presence when I was on worship team. I could feel intensity when certain people walked in the room. Sometimes I could feel it just before they walked in the sanctuary.

Most of those people were ones I knew were devoted to prayer, and praised God as part of their prayer life.

Other people prayed of course, but I think it was important to them to get into God's presence and really connect with Him. It was not a characteristic of one person or another, but changed from day to day.

Sometimes it happened when people came in from praying for the service -- I would suddenly look up because I could feel it before I noticed who walked in.
(I have also felt negative presences.)

There's definitely something to it. And it's not predictable or opinion-based.

I think the first thing we need to do if we want God's presence to surround us -- ask Him!
 
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hopeinGod

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So much of what poses as the movement of the Spirit today could be set aside for a more balanced view of what it truly means to be spiritual. Sadly, we continue to witness the side effects of a strong one-sidedness that leans heavily on the anticipation of foolish manifestations while avoiding sound teaching.

All Word and no Spirit is truly unhealthy and beguiling, since anything can be asserted as being a word from God or revelatory. In comparison, the intelligence that is the result of being well read and informed in Scripture carries with it, I think, it's own kind of presence that isn't spooky or overly mystical. Instead, a contentment and rest is its evident trait.
 
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alancrookham

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One of the greatest men of God I know is a man named David Hogan. He is pretty famous, especially in the missionary world (which I was for many years). He didn't become famous or powerful in the Lord because of advertising or making big money. He doesn't take offerings when he preaches and he doesn't have any books or dvds he has produced, he doesn't advertise when he preaches, nothing like that, and yet he has planted about two thousand churches around the world, seen thirty something people raised from the dead, and sees miracles every single day in his ministry. It was all done by God and He knows it.

He spends several hours a day in prayer, he fasts every other day of his life, and has dedicated himself 100% to seeking God and pleasing him.

You can see lots of sermons that other people have recorded of him on YouTube. He is definitely an example for us today.
 
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jiminpa

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The two people that stand out in my mind are one I consider a mentor. She spent a lot of time communing with God, and one who was once pretty famous--Annie Herring of the Christian music group The Second Chapter of Acts. Annie, also spent a lot of time in God's presence. Annie and two of her siblings were so obedient to God that when He said to disband their very successful music group, they did, period. That's the pattern I see. Spend time with God, get His tangible presence.

Once upon a time I was told I had that too, but that was a long time ago, and I'm sure how true it was.
 
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Gunny

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God's Holy Word states David was a man after God's own heart. David was not interested in just knowing about God. In reading the Psalms it's rather evident that David sought the Lord with all his heart, mind, soul and strength.

David, the poet, warrior, king was a love sick lover of the lover of his soul, the Lord.

An old testament individual with a new testament mindset.


How lovely is Your tabernacle,
O Lord of hosts!
My soul longs, yes, even faints
For the courts of the Lord;
My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God.

Psalm 84:1-2
NKJV
 
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