IIRC Melissa has been Lutheran the whole time she's been posting here. or at least as long as i can remember.
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Not very important really-unless they are very dogmatic in their beliefs.....
As an example..Kirk...and not trying to pick on ya lol...but my thoughts on YOUR beliefs of the accuracy of your denomination being 100pct correct is that it's ...your opinion and not based on Biblical evidence but books and instructions handed down after the fact..in other words..the more dogmatic type "churches"...tend to not really have the Bible backing up their 'beliefs'.
I've always been curious though-was Melissa Lutheran or did she simply 'convert' to your denomination and accept it through and through as 100pct truth-simply because that's the way it has to be for you-or because she agrees.... sorry for the bluntness...maybe i can just ask her at our other home
IIRC Melissa has been Lutheran the whole time she's been posting here. or at least as long as i can remember.
As an example..Kirk...and not trying to pick on ya lol...but my thoughts on YOUR beliefs of the accuracy of your denomination being 100pct correct is that it's ...your opinion and not based on Biblical evidence but books and instructions handed down after the fact..in other words..the more dogmatic type "churches"...tend to not really have the Bible backing up their 'beliefs'.
I've always been curious though-was Melissa Lutheran or did she simply 'convert' to your denomination and accept it through and through as 100pct truth-simply because that's the way it has to be for you-or because she agrees.... sorry for the bluntness...maybe i can just ask her at our other home
I remember stuff related to two different synods, one was more conservative. I went to Gustavus Adolphus College for my undergrad.
The theology department was definitely liberal, but I think that is usual.
JM
I'm not making underhanded anything-I was just curious if she believed as you do entirely as you have openly said they have to.
As to the rest...I won't argue anything with you-I've found you are extremely dogmatic and black/white view....and I believe your "belief" in the accuracy of your denomination and the error of other denominations is jsut that...your belief...and YOUR truth-not the truth for everyone else, to imply it SHOULD be is out of line. Hold to your beliefs, sure....I just hope that you don't try to impose your truth to others or accuse others of being in error or wrong-simply based on YOUR conclusions to research provided by your denomination (and not the Bible even)...as you mentioned the 500 page reading.
Do we need another mans interpretation of Scripture...500 pages worth of rules/laws created by a church to "explain" the Bible and hence claim 100pct holders of THE TRUTH?
In fact...the reason I'm extremely skeptical of ANYONE adding their rules/laws/rituals/ceremonies/catechism is because of this:
Revelation 22:18-9 which states:
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."
as well as Deuteronomy 4:2:
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."
Rituals like baptism and communion that Jesus specificially commanded?
Catechisms which explain the basics of the Christian faith for people to understand?
Guilty then.
Have you ever read Luther's small catechism. Look it up, its short, its ment to teach children the basics of the Christian faith based on scripture.
None of these things add a bit to scripture, its all based on scripture.
Do some reading as to what we actually belive give me specific issues you have with the Church. Based on my reading of scripture, I've come to the conclusion that I'm in agreement with the Lutheran church on its understanding of scripture. And yes I belive I'm 100% right, because its foolish to belive that you are wrong about something. Because if you belive you are wrong about something then you don't actually belive it at all.
Believing you are 100% right is fine... but it doesn't make you right. Muslims believe they are 100% right as well. So do JWs, Mormons, Hindu, etc...
I have no problem with people believing they are right. In fact, I have no real problem with differences in beliefs that do not pertain to salvation, as long as the person can back up that belief with scripture. (And that does not mean twisting and adding to promote ideas such as slavery)
I think far too often, we fall into the traps of worshiping doctrine and rules instead of worshiping Christ and Christ alone. For many people, doctrine and denomination become their god.
Coach
I have no problem with people believing they are right. In fact, I have no real problem with differences in beliefs that do not pertain to salvation, as long as the person can back up that belief with scripture. (And that does not mean twisting and adding to promote ideas such as slavery)
I think far too often, we fall into the traps of worshiping doctrine and rules instead of worshiping Christ and Christ alone. For many people, doctrine and denomination become their god.
They don't matter. I know churches that think it's wrong to play instruments in worship because it is not present in the new testament. Some churches think any kind of dancing is wrong. Some claim that any alcohol consumption is wrong because it ruins the witness. Some churches don't consume caffeinated beverages.
Do those things really matter when it comes to loving others and serving Christ?
Most doctrine is a man made attempt to get to God, filling life with rules. Christianity has survived because of the Holy Spirit and the Bible. These other things haven't necessarily helped it survive, and in fact, have often done more damage than good.
Coach
Believing you are 100% right is fine... but it doesn't make you right. Muslims believe they are 100% right as well. So do JWs, Mormons, Hindu, etc
We don't NEED cathecism to EXPLAIN the Bible to us....
being "based" on Scripture can be misleading-you have to know that no MORTAL man know 100pct truth when it comes to Scripture or God...that's actually impossible.
There are things we do not know, and cannot comprehend...in fact to hold my views as 100pct truth makes me arrogant and prideful. I believe what I believe and I don't doubt it...but I also am a "gray" person and I am humble enough to know that I may believe this way but God's truth and the Bible's truth could be quite different to what I believe.
As for baptism-I ask again, since the NEW Testament speaks of adult baptism....how does "cathecism" explain this differently?
The rituals accompanying communion that the church does also are a very far call from communion in the Bible and how/when/whom were partaking.....there were no "requirements" to stick to doctrines, etc..
I don't know Luth, I don't expect you to agree but from my views there ARE added rules/laws/rituals/ceremonies/instructions that are ENTIRELY man made and not EVER described in Scripture-maybe they are explained in cathetism to suit their beliefs...but some of the rituals explained do NOT line up. To claim they do and then say that it's the truth 100pct is misguided at least.
I rely on one thing only-Scripture-and God's revelation of it's meaning to me...not on a book created by a mortal man w/certain beliefs/opinions on his approach to Christianity.
Considering how fractured Christianity is, and how much of a joke 'modern Christianity' has become, in part due to erroneous doctrines, I'd say that stuff like doctrine DOES matter.
Mike, when did I say that? Go back and read everything I said before you start picking only the parts you want to see and attacking me for it. 'Things that do not pertain to salvation" is the key phrase.
You can call my examples silly all you want, but they are doctrinal beliefs that divide many churches today.
Salvation comes in Christ and Him crucified. Alone
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