How I know there is no God

[Wiccan_Child]

God still has control over everything though.
Which means that if God chooses not to control something - surely He is responsible for the resultant consequences?

That's a good point. If a person stands by and watches a murder happen (arguing that they don't want to interfere with free will), we throw the book at them. Why should God be treated any differently?

 

[drifter5]

I haven't read the whole thread and perhaps this has been braught up before, but I would like a christian to answer this question.

As the author said, there has been so many different believs on our planet and there is still many believes left. If a truly dedicated christian is reading this, what do you think about that there is many people out there that has the opposit belief than you but as strong or stronger belief than you? Both of you CANNOT be right! How do handle this topic? That "there is a small chance that my beliefe is the real truth" or "all others are wrong"?

Since God graciously came into my life i now know that everything in The Bible is true. There is no way to heaven except through Jesus. Jesus has paid the price for all of our sins on The cross, the price that we can not ever pay ourselves. Only Jesus' perfect sacrifice can bring us back into a right relationship with God, who is Holy and perfect in every way. God loves us all so much and yet His heart was torn in two- God is just and pure- He can not take any wrong sin, the wrongs that we have done set us apart from Him, only His love ( in sending Jesus to die for us, as our perfect substitute ) can make us right with Him again.

 

[phsyxx]

There is no way to heaven except through Jesus. Jesus has paid the price for all of our sins on The cross, the price that we can not ever pay ourselves. Only Jesus' perfect sacrifice can bring us back into a right relationship with God, who is Holy and perfect in every way. ...
( in sending Jesus to die for us, as our perfect substitute ) can make us right with Him again.

Erm.....can I ask - what part of "scape-goating" does this not fit into?

I know it sounds like a noble sacrifice and everything - but do you not think that this is a bit of an expanded version of "kill a goat to purify and get rid of the sins of the tribe"?
Do you not?
Jesus is the goat - and his blood was spilt to "atone" the sins of ALL mankind.

Does that not smack of lack of responsibility on people's part?
Shouldn't we ACTUALLY take responsibility for our sins?

And if Jesus was to take all of the sins of mankind - then doesn't that remove any consequences of my actions?

 

[drifter5]

Erm.....can I ask - what part of "scape-goating" does this not fit into?

I know it sounds like a noble sacrifice and everything - but do you not think that this is a bit of an expanded version of "kill a goat to purify and get rid of the sins of the tribe"?
Do you not?
Jesus is the goat - and his blood was spilt to "atone" the sins of ALL mankind.

Does that not smack of lack of responsibility on people's part?
Shouldn't we ACTUALLY take responsibility for our sins?

And if Jesus was to take all of the sins of mankind - then doesn't that remove any consequences of my actions?

We try, with Jesus help ,to live godly lives following Jesus example, not to save ourselves but to say thank you to God for saving us.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Since God graciously came into my life i now know that everything in The Bible is true.

The rest of your post is an essay based on the fact that this premise is true. While it may very well be true for you, there is no way for the reader to determine whether it is or not.

We try, with Jesus help ,to live godly lives following Jesus example, not to save ourselves but to say thank you to God for saving us.

Saving us from what? The punishment that he set up for us himself? The punishment that he could, at any time, absolve us from? No, I'd rather shake my fist in indignation than thank a tyrant from holding back the dogs at the last second.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I haven't read the whole thread and perhaps this has been braught up before, but I would like a christian to answer this question.

As the author said, there has been so many different believs on our planet and there is still many believes left. If a truly dedicated christian is reading this, what do you think about that there is many people out there that has the opposit belief than you but as strong or stronger belief than you? Both of you CANNOT be right! How do handle this topic? That "there is a small chance that my beliefe is the real truth" or "all others are wrong"?

Well, it's not as though we have that kind of certainty in any other arena of life either. You do have a valid point, and that is why I tend to avoid that tries to make and hold to a plethora of claims. There are many things that I believe to be true, just as there are many things that you believe to be true, but they are not my faith. At it's heart, faith describes only my relationship with a God who I understand in a given way. I may be right in the things I claim, and more likely I will be wrong in most. But, I'm not about to sit on my hands as a result, nor deny myself the joy and completion of communion with that which is larger than I am. I'm not a polemicist of the vein that you are probably hoping to answer, but I think my faith is as dedicated as anyone else's, for it is the same faith given by God to all, differently though it may be expressed.

Cool. So we've reached a point of shared understanding. Cool.

God still has control over everything though.
Which means that if God chooses not to control something - surely He is responsible for the resultant consequences?

And if he is omniscient - surely he would know result?
Which means, surely, he is "using his discretion"?
As in - manipulating his creation as he sees fit?


Is that the kind of God you actually want to worship?

I should remark that I never actually claimed God was possible to describe with the three Os, just described how one might. But, I think your reasoning is mostly sound. For what it is worth, the God who created this universe is worthy of my worship. He created me, and created all that I love or value; to whom else would I go? It is easy to look at the devastations that people find it too easy to wreak on each other and think that the human condition is worse than it really is. From my perspective, every breath that we take is a miracle deserving of praise beyond which I can offer. Our minds and our sometimes poor decisions are not the greatest things in this universe.

 

[NavyGuy7]

That's a good point. If a person stands by and watches a murder happen (arguing that they don't want to interfere with free will), we throw the book at them. Why should God be treated any differently?

God isn't human. And I'm sure he hates it when such a thing happens, but that doesn't mean he's going to interfere. Not always. Besides, that murderer will be punished in the afterlife if he does not accept Christ into his life. Hell, in other words. And God cannot be applied to human standards, as human beings are imperfect creatures. I would think that, since God is a perfect being, he doesn't apply to the limitations we place on human beings. And the person who just watches, don't you think they'll be punished too?

 

[NavyGuy7]

Erm.....can I ask - what part of "scape-goating" does this not fit into?

I know it sounds like a noble sacrifice and everything - but do you not think that this is a bit of an expanded version of "kill a goat to purify and get rid of the sins of the tribe"?
Do you not?
Jesus is the goat - and his blood was spilt to "atone" the sins of ALL mankind.

Does that not smack of lack of responsibility on people's part?
Shouldn't we ACTUALLY take responsibility for our sins?

And if Jesus was to take all of the sins of mankind - then doesn't that remove any consequences of my actions?

No, it does not remove the consequences of your actions. You still have to suffer them in this life, whether it's jail time or something else. It doesn't magically disappear. And we are taking responsibility for our sins by admitting it to God and asking for forgiveness. You are taking action against your sin by doing so. And actually, you're right in your first paragraph, except Jesus was considered to be a lamb led to slaughter. And he was the ULTIMATE sacrifice, so that all other sacrifices would no longer be needed, as we could ask for forgiveness through Christ.

And you are responsible for what you do in this life. You cannot abuse God's grace, so you know. So we are still expected to act responsibly with our actions and words. We are still expected to be responsible and do what is right in God's eyes.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

God isn't human.

Agreed. Humans are much more compassionate.

And I'm sure he hates it when such a thing happens, but that doesn't mean he's going to interfere.

Why not? He's omnipotent, so he can, and he's omnibenevolent, so he wants to. What's stopping him?

Not always.

Ah, so he does interfere, when it suits him. Care to elaborate on these special cases?

Besides, that murderer will be punished in the afterlife if he does not accept Christ into his life. Hell, in other words.

Then why not intervene in such a way that the murderer doesn't harm the victim, and punish him when he gets to Hell? Why must the victim die?

And God cannot be applied to human standards, as human beings are imperfect creatures. I would think that, since God is a perfect being, he doesn't apply to the limitations we place on human beings.

What limitations?

And the person who just watches, don't you think they'll be punished too?

 

[drifter5]

God loves us with a perfect love and compassion. God hates our sin- but He loves us so much. That is why He sent Jesus for us. We do not deserve it in anyway.

 

[quatona]

Yesterday the weather was sunny. I took a walk in the park and had an ice cream.

 

[phsyxx]

Yesterday the weather was sunny. I took a walk in the park and had an ice cream.

eh?

wow...

 

[DailyBlessings]

Yesterday the weather was sunny. I took a walk in the park and had an ice cream.

Ah, see? Life is good. Mostly.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Yesterday the weather was sunny. I took a walk in the park and had an ice cream.

There quotana just proved there is no God, I believe a moment of silence is in order, and we should offer our condolences to the pope.

Talk about hell of an ice cream cone.

 

[DailyBlessings]

There quotana just proved there is no God, I believe a moment of silence is in order, and we should offer our condolences to the pope.

Talk about hell of an ice cream cone.

How so?

 

[drifter5]

How so?

Dear Lord God thank you for the lovely sunshine that you send. Thank you for all good things which come from your hand. In Jesus Name. Amen. God is good. PRAISE HIS NAME !

 

[Plecto]

Well, it's not as though we have that kind of certainty in any other arena of life either. You do have a valid point, and that is why I tend to avoid that tries to make and hold to a plethora of claims. There are many things that I believe to be true, just as there are many things that you believe to be true, but they are not my faith. At it's heart, faith describes only my relationship with a God who I understand in a given way. I may be right in the things I claim, and more likely I will be wrong in most. But, I'm not about to sit on my hands as a result, nor deny myself the joy and completion of communion with that which is larger than I am. I'm not a polemicist of the vein that you are probably hoping to answer, but I think my faith is as dedicated as anyone else's, for it is the same faith given by God to all, differently though it may be expressed.

So you are saying that you believe in many things and you know that many of those might not be the real truth? And that God has given you this belief even though some or alot of it isn't the real truth? May I ask why God has done so? And why would you dedicate so much for something you admit might not be the truth? Like a jew believe that Jesus is not the son of God, and a christian believing that he is?

 

[phsyxx]

Dear Lord God thank you for the lovely sunshine that you send. Thank you for all good things which come from your hand. In Jesus Name. Amen. God is good. PRAISE HIS NAME !

Dear goddess Athe, thank you for all of the nuclear reactant energy the sun gives off, which just so happens to spread far enough out into space to heat the Earth sufficiently in the area in which I live so that it remains above 0 degrees centrigrade

and for the evaporated water turning into vapour moving in cloud formations due to the atmospheric movement of gaseous molecules, which just so happens to be in the right place to allow the sun's radiation to creep through and enter my visual cortex.


Amen.

 

[DailyBlessings]

So you are saying that you believe in many things and you know that many of those might not be the real truth? And that God has given you this belief even though some or alot of it isn't the real truth? May I ask why God has done so? And why would you dedicate so much for something you admit might not be the truth? Like a jew believe that Jesus is not the son of God, and a christian believing that he is?

Well, perhaps we are defining truth in different ways here. Facts are not what my faith rests on- yours either. I'm not interested in whether my faith generates empirical claims that can be proven or disproven, or for that matter proving or disproving my faith, though I'm happy to maintain that it is valid. Facts are boxes in which we try to put eternal truths, and any human supposition or doctrine is bound to be wrong in some way or another, not because it was given to us wrongly by faith but because we ourselves are unable to understand what we have been given without filtering it through our own psychology and cultural precepts. This is akin to the struggle of some atheists to attain a truly objective and rationally consistent view of the universe: one may try, and may make progress along the way, but one will never really leave the plane of the subjective; we are human, and we are simply incapable of understanding the universe in nonhuman terms. It is not a bad thing of itself, for it has resulted in many and diverse fields of cultural experience, but it does serve to be aware of it.

As for the Gospel, I don't think you need to believe anything in particular about Jesus of Nazareth to understand it- its just that some roads are easier than others, and at least from where I sit, the enlightenment I've received from the study of other faiths is tangential to the joy that I have inherited in Christ. And the hope of this world lies in the salvation that is promised. So I follow, and dedicate my life such as it is to something that is far superior to my own works. Make of it what you will.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Daily Blessings,

You speak very well, it is important to search for meaning and significance in the human condition which is what I see you doing by looking at other religions. I respect that, I feel that some things can be known objectively, and that others still subjectively.

My belief is to assume religion is man made and that means there is no God, that is a conclusion that I believe follows the statement. I don't see any reason to believe in a God. Also, I feel that religion for me caused a lot of anxiety, especially with my fear of hell for my non-christian friends, I feel convinced we cannot survive the death of our brains, and that nature has provided for us a fail proof insurance policy for if nature screws up. The insurance policy, pays death for when people are in agnozing pain and cannot get better.

This gives me peace, this is great news, I know we can't be kept alive and tortured endlessly, just as there was a beginning to our lives, there is an end.

So I do hope that religion does become more individualized and less organized, to help correct the toxicologies of dark age myths. I feel the idea of a caring and loving God creating hell will never go away unless both christian and muslim believers do away with that belief, and emphasize the idea of God being forgiving and merciful even to those who don't deserve it.

By becoming more individualized religion will be more tolerant, and dangerous cults need not arise provided people don't get sucked into a cult, but really people who are healthy should be able to resist such toxicologies. It is just so hard to remove the teachings of hell and saton when organized religion refuses to do so, therefore the people have to remove that dark age teaching themselves, to be rid of superstious fears.

That is how I feel about it.

About what I said in the last post of mine, I was trying for comic relief we have gone over three hundred replies and no jokes have been told. Perhaps it is better to keep it that way, and jokes can be told at another thread.

I believe we all have worked real hard on this thread and have asked hard questions, I have had to work pretty good at explaining my beliefes which I keep simple and I believe I have thought them out quite well.

Sometimes when I think about the mountain of evidence for there being no God, I just have to stand back in awe of how far the human race has come in trying to explain how everything works. Really the facts for how the weather works, and the physics for flying a man to the moon can really be explained to such a level of confidence, that people can fly someone to the moon and get them back safely and calculate the probability it will rain on the weekend.

From the Theory of Evolution we know species come from species that already existed, we know we have a distant relative shared with plants, subjectively speaking. The evidence is undeniable, and I hope to get a biology degree and teach biology to high school students.

Right now I have a Master's in Mathematical Statistics, so I am trying to get a job teaching math at a high school. Hopefully it will happen and I can get my biology degree while teaching math.

Life is what you make of it, don't quit learning about philosophy and science because it keeps growing and getting better, there is so much to learn, and I feel fortunate enough to have a good head on my sholders where I can get my brain around the facts and learn the science and the philosophy, to keep on learning.

That is what stimualtes me a lot, is just solving hard problems, and learning stuff from school.

How about you guys? Any books you like to read or science you like to study, or philosophy you like to learn?