How I know there is no God

[DoubtingThomas29]

Here is my point:

A person who we would call Joe Schmo who lived in Ancient Rome can hide from the knowledge of the human race very easily. He is just one person in a sea of others who really had no reason to be remembered more than the next guy.

With someone like Jesus Christ, that is like trying to hide a ten foot green giant who was running around ancient rome for three years. If the son of God really would have been walking around ancient Rome who was trying to gain followers, there would be all kinds of evidence. There would be historical accounts of Jesus and records of the miracles of Jesus.

You just can't hide something like that. It is almost like we are being told to believe these healings were all done in back alleys with no way to verify the healings. The sad fact is really we have no good reason to believe Jesus Christ was the son of God healing people in ancient rome, because after all christianity was an oppressed cult for over three hundred years. The fact is, all of rome would have left some record of Jesus had he rally had been there for three years, such as a mass exodus to Palestine for the free meals and healings. However there is no such record of that.

That is proof enough for me, that the son of God is not Jesus Christ.

 

[phsyxx]

He didn't walk around ancient Rome.

He preached in Israel, mainly in Jerusalem.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Here is my point:

A person who we would call Joe Schmo who lived in Ancient Rome can hide from the knowledge of the human race very easily. He is just one person in a sea of others who really had no reason to be remembered more than the next guy.

With someone like Jesus Christ, that is like trying to hide a ten foot green giant who was running around ancient rome for three years. If the son of God really would have been walking around ancient Rome who was trying to gain followers, there would be all kinds of evidence. There would be historical accounts of Jesus and records of the miracles of Jesus.

You just can't hide something like that. It is almost like we are being told to believe these healings were all done in back alleys with no way to verify the healings. The sad fact is really we have no good reason to believe Jesus Christ was the son of God healing people in ancient rome, because after all christianity was an oppressed cult for over three hundred years. The fact is, all of rome would have left some record of Jesus had he rally had been there for three years, such as a mass exodus to Palestine for the free meals and healings. However there is no such record of that.

That is proof enough for me, that the son of God is not Jesus Christ.

I find strange that people insist on having unnatural and unrational events to prove to them that someone is God. It suggests to me a world in which God can only exist if he is at odds with his own creation. We have never been given any real indication that the nature of God is to try to "prove" himself to humanity, and that is certainly not the point of the miracle narratives- after almost every one, Jesus tells his followers not to spread abroad the news of them.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

He didn't walk around ancient Rome.

He preached in Israel, mainly in Jerusalem.

Palestine was part of the ancient roman empire that is what I mean.

 

[NavyGuy7]

Dear Daily Blessings,

I think your missing something which I'll explain in a later post, but think about this:

How do you know there wasn't a ten foot green giant running around ancient rome smashing people over the head for a three year period, and then wisked off the planet by a space ship from an alien race who were apprehending an escaped fugative from their planet? How do we know for a fact that never happened apostori how do we know that?

LOL, now you're just reaching. But visualizing that is pretty funny. I give it a nine for creativity!!!

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Thank you Navy Guy for the nine I mean it sincerely.

One time I whipped out a story about a time machine that split off a parallel universe that created an Earth that had a country on it, that was shaped by the world events that led to the creation of the United States circa 1807. It took me three hours to write it, I should do more creative writing, because that can be fun, debating gets a little old.

I feel that as like a final conclusion to this 284 page response debate I'll write the following: For whatever reason it is really impossible and frankly a waste of time to try and convince a christian that atheists have the truth. It just doesn't seem to work, I hypothize there is a genetic reason for that.

I no longer believe much in total free will, but more in the deterministic style of living. We have our upbringing and our genes that lead us to make the choices we make whether it is to believe christians have the truth and just can't prove it, or if atheists have the truth but just can't prove it.

At the end of our searching for the truth, we make a choice, and that is to believe there is a God, or there is no such thing as a God. Really that is all religious beliefes are, they are a free choice, and america is fortunate to have the largest collection of religions in the world. There are over two hundred denominations of christianity in North America, and we have just about every religion you can think of right in our country.

I have searched long and hard for the truth, and I feel I have found it. It feels good to be so certain, and yet you don't agree with me, for reasons I don't understand totally.

We are all searching for meaning and significance in the human condition, whether we get that through finding God, or finding our true nature as the western Buddhists emphasize is purely up to the person.

I just wish more of the toxicologies of religion could be removed from our presence. I feel most sincerely that a comparitive religion course for middle and high schoolers would help the children in seeing that religion may not neccessairly be right about the after life for your non-christian fiends, and it is illogical to say a caring and loving God created Hell to punish anybody for any reason, let alone so visciously.

Can you imagine if in the muslim countries their children were taught about christianity and Judaism in their schools? Perhaps even Buddhism or Hinduism? We would be one step closer to world peace if that happened.

Instead we got religion butting into the school system trying to make natural selection a swear word, and creationism, something it is not. What it is, is a religious agenda.

About morals perhaps it it would be better for religious people to always try to make sense of their moral code without refering back to religion in hopes of trying to teach someone how things should be, like with abortion for instance.

We can agree to disagree, and I hope we can leave it at that, but if I have peaked your interest towards the possibility of their being no God at all, and you would like to hear more arguments for it, just send me a message and I'll send you a web site, but really just reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins would be really good.

Well you guys take care, and keep searching, something that always botheres me as a beliver was, we are asked to trust God, but really, we have no good reason to do so, since it is so obvious we have no divine protection. After all look at the children who get killed in a drive by shooting, we are not guaranteed a specific life time, but if you're careful enough and take good care the odds are you will survive. Try telling a person living in a Gang infested Ghetto that God is protecting him or her, they won't believe you for too long.

Take care and keep searching.

Thomas

 

[drifter5]

And I suppose Evolution is all the more probable, explainable, and likely to have happened than the miracles found in the Bible? If God had to fit within His creation and follow the laws of nature that really wouldn't say anything about Him would it? That's why miracles are called super-natural. How do you explain away healings that happen to people today that can't be explained medically and things like that?

My husband was in a coma as a child. After much prayer from folk in the church God graciously healed him. When i met my hubbie i would never have known that he had been in a come, until he told me. ALL GLORY UNTO GOD ! PRAISE HIS WONDERFUL NAME ! The doctors said that they could not explain how the blood clot on my husband's brain had suddenly disappered! Nothing is too hard for God.

 

[NavyGuy7]

The reason you can't convince me is because I feel I have found the truth. Yes, it's difficult to prove, but that's where faith comes in. Besides, it's hard to explain unless you've experienced it. Also, I accept the universe as proof, ya know? It's too ordered to have happened by chance, as our planet is too ordered to have happened by chance, at that precise tilt that gives us our seasons. I use science to make my conclusion that there is a God. I use the natural world and the universe to make my conclusion there is a God. I'm sorry, but I can't buy the whole atheist attitude. No offense to anyone, but I can't buy that this all happened by chance.

 

[NavyGuy7]

And being a writer, I spend my time mostly in the RPG section of this site. I like to argue sometimes, though, so I come here too. It's interesting what people will argue about. I hope to become an author one day. A writer of fiction, of course, but still an author nonetheless. We'll see where life takes me, I suppose.

 

[Hypersonic]

Speaking of the Old Testament, remember the story about Noah's Ark? Well we can prove that that story is a fairy tale, just by looking st the fact there are trillions of species of insects on the planet and to hve two of every kind of insect on a boat is simply impossible.

Therefore Noah's Ark is a made up story.

QED

This does in fact mean, we cannot read the fantastic stories of the bible and just believe them seriously, because there is at least one story that is completely false.

Also the story about the Sun stopping in te sky, that could not happen either without jolting the Earth and killing everybody. The story about that lady that looked back at a city to see it go down in flames, the bible says she turned into a pillar of salt, but tha is impossible because matter cannot be created or destroyed and also of E=mC^2, her atoms had to go somewhere, they just couldn't turn into NaCl, Sodium Chloride.

Then in the New Testament there is more stories that are hard to believe, look at the evidence. Look at the fact that Christianity was an oppressed cult for hundreds of years before Emperor Constatine decided to convert the Empire to christianity.

There is tons of evidence that the christia story is another made up religion by men. The bible is written by men, not God.

If God does not exist, then there is in fact a absence of evidence, which is what we have, our world only makes sense we assume God is imaginary, when you look at the Hindu Religion, the Muslim religion and the Christian religion you are looking at a collection of stories that about four billion people adhere to, and they are all right about the other person's religion. Religion is man made, there is no God, and we are merly sophisticated animals wandering the planet, some wondering who made the Earth, and still others wondering what made the Earth.

It wasn't a who that made you and me, it was a what that made us, that what is the natural process called evolution.

Think about it.

I don't think evolution made us, well it seems highly unlikely, I think it would have made someone else

 

[phsyxx]

And being a writer, I spend my time mostly in the RPG section of this site. I like to argue sometimes, though, so I come here too. It's interesting what people will argue about. I hope to become an author one day. A writer of fiction, of course, but still an author nonetheless. We'll see where life takes me, I suppose.

Ooh. A writer - that's always good.
Novels? Paperbacks? The world's your fictional oyster!

 

[drifter5]

God believes in you.

 

[drifter5]

I feel that we can know apostori there is no God, all though we can't rule him out all together. I feel that a person can't believe religion is man mad and still believe there is a God. There maybe a remote chance that there is a creator, but really a God would have to be one we could have a personal relationship with and he would have to be all loving and all powerful, which obviously isn't the case when you look at the evidence.

This is how I know there is no God, I look at all the religions that have ever existed, and I know all those religions were just stories that people were making up. I don't see how christianity isn't just a different story, given the fact we can't prove God exists and therefore we can't prove any of Jesus miracles actually happened. So God and the Leprchan fall into the same category, we can't prove Leprchans exist and we can't prove God exist, so there you go the two are one in the same, just about. There is not much difference between the two.

So, if we know Mohammed din't listen to an angle in a cave, and we also know that christianity was an oppressed cult for over two hundred years, which does mean we have no good reason to believe Jesus came back from the dead. Then there is half of the believing world right there rejected, the other half pretty much is just made up too, in my opinion.

So there you go if you know religion is man made, then you know God does not exist, the one follows the other.
We know this apostori by looking at religious claims and all those religions and denominations that are out there.

So what are your thoughts?

I am just basically looking for a philosophical debate where we can agree to disagree, but still have a little fun performing mental exercises about how do we know things, either apostori or apriori about the claim of the existance of God, and how do we know different things too. So if you want to jump in and tell me why you don't believe Islam, or why you don't believe Hinduism then we could talk about that too. The debate should be fun for everybody, try not to get offended. Religious beliefes should be just an opinion pretty much.

If someone wanted to believe their dog made the universe, what is wrong with that? Nothing not a thing, obviously we couldn't take him seriously the way we have to with people who are hindu or muslim, but still it is okay to have weird belief like that. If you wanted to think a Leperchan made the universe and he lives in the woods somewhere, there is nothing wrong with that. It is weird, but there is nothing wrong with it.

So what are your thoughts on all this?

doubting Thomas God believes in you - "Not one... is forgotten before God " Luke 12: 6.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Drifter 5,

That is kind of you to say so, better than what bible thumpers say about, "you're going to hell if you don't believe that."

If they would just listen to themselves, "God loves you, but if you don't believe in him you'll go to hell." I wish they would listen to themselves, it is a shame to see people go around saying something so ridiculous. That is where liberal theology comes in and is despartely trying to correct the dark age way of thinking, pay attention to the liberal theists, they're nice to talk to.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

The reason you can't convince me is because I feel I have found the truth. Yes, it's difficult to prove, but that's where faith comes in. Besides, it's hard to explain unless you've experienced it. Also, I accept the universe as proof, ya know? It's too ordered to have happened by chance, as our planet is too ordered to have happened by chance, at that precise tilt that gives us our seasons. I use science to make my conclusion that there is a God. I use the natural world and the universe to make my conclusion there is a God. I'm sorry, but I can't buy the whole atheist attitude. No offense to anyone, but I can't buy that this all happened by chance.

Dear Navy Guy,

My friend Bob said it best, what makes sense to us really only makes sense in our own mind. In other words just because it makes sense in your mind it does not mean it will make sense in someone else's mind. Our reasons are our own.

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

My husband was in a coma as a child. After much prayer from folk in the church God graciously healed him. When i met my hubbie i would never have known that he had been in a come, until he told me. ALL GLORY UNTO GOD ! PRAISE HIS WONDERFUL NAME ! The doctors said that they could not explain how the blood clot on my husband's brain had suddenly disappered! Nothing is too hard for God.

Dear drifter 5,

I am trying to get this thread to an even three hundred posts before calling it quits.

I just thought I would mention that, I am glad your husband recovered that is fortunate. When I hear something like that I think well maybe God did heal the person, but really if that is true what about the one thousand other people who died from their blood clot in their brain?

The minor and major medical miracles are just a matter of luck and the human body is an amazing self righting machine. It can fix itself.

Just six more posts to go, is there anything else someone would like to add?

 

[phsyxx]

doubting Thomas God believes in you - "Not one... is forgotten before God " Luke 12: 6.

Why the elipsis between the "is" and "one"?
Is there a verse there that would contradict what you've said that you've edited out?
Let's see...
something to do with sparrows...

it doesn't really make sense in context.

 

[drifter5]

Why the elipsis between the "is" and "one"?
Is there a verse there that would contradict what you've said that you've edited out?
Let's see...
something to do with sparrows...

it doesn't really make sense in context.

Luke 12:6 " Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God." Luke 12: 7 " But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore ye are of more value than many sparrows. "

 

[drifter5]

doubting Thomas God believes in you - "Not one... is forgotten before God " Luke 12: 6.

What i meant is that although you may not believe in God - God believes in you doubting Thomas. John 3 :16- "For God so loved the world ,that He gave His only begotten Son ,that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3 :17 - " For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world ; but that the world through Him might be saved. "

 

[DoubtingThomas29]

Dear Drifter 5,

Actually you may think God knows who I am, but the fact is how is that possible? Because there are over six point five billion people alive today, and there are over six billion people who have ever lived in the history of the human race, is it even possible God would know who I am, without physically meeting me? Think about it, how is it possible? Just one more post to go.