How I came to embrace Preterism.

highplainschristian · Jan 9, 2004

I began my journey into preterism when I was in my 20s. I was attending the Olsen Park Church of Christ at the time and the minister was a man named Sam Dawson. At the time, I accepted the standard church of Christ amillenialist interpretation of the Scriptures.

Bro. Dawson gave a lesson on Matthew 24 and announced that he believed that the entire chapter was about the destruction of Jerusalem in A. D. 70. At the time, I was not familiar with this scripture, so I thought, "So what?" However, as he read the scriptures, some of them were familiar to me as teachings about the so-called "2nd Coming of Christ." (By the way, why do people look at you like you have two heads when you say that Matt. 24 is not about the 2nd coming? After all, the term "2nd Coming" doesn't even occur in the Scriptures.) Anyway, he presented his lesson in a clear, logical fashion (something he always did) and convinced me that he was right. At this time, both he and I believed that Matt. 25 and 2 Pet. 3 were referring to this "2nd Coming."

Later, I was studying with some Jehovah's Witnesses and they brought up Matt. 24. I showed that much of the language in that scripture was symbolic and should be interpreted as a national judgement on Israel. Later in the same study, I pointed out 2nd Pet. 3 and told them that it should be taken literally. One of them said, "If the language in Matt. 24 is figurative, why isn't this language also? They are the same kind of language!" I had no answer for her. I pondered on this for several years when I saw a small book about 2 Pet. 3. I don't remember the author's name, but he took the position that 2 Pet. 3 was written about A. D. 70. Reading this book, I came to realize that he was absolutely correct.

As I have gone along in my studies, I find myself becoming more and more preterist. I would still be considered a "partial preterist", but this may end. Who knows what the future holds?

Darryl Trapp
Highplainschristian@yahoo.com

GodsWatchman · Jan 10, 2004

nikolai_42 said:
If I may ask a couple of questions that I haven't seen addressed (if they were, my apologies) in this discussion:

The first passage may have been dealt with. It's a popular one, which is why I wonder if I missed it or not.

" Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."
Matthew 24:35,36

(Read also the parable of the talents in Matthew 25 ALONG WITH JESUS' WORDS ON THE PARABLE and even down to verse 31.)

I know I'm not necessarily futurist with this understanding, but I think this verse is clear in saying Jesus WILL return, but that His return will be accompanied by the passing away of the present heavens and earth. No thousand years as is commonly understood, but the Lord returning (as I Thess says) to exact punishment on those who know not God nor obey His gospel. All of this is declared as future in the scriptures. And Peter even describes the destruction of the heavens and earth (as has been posted here a couple of times). The destruction of what we see is still to come. It will happen. As Peter said "...the elements will melt with fervent heat...". He even described the societal trends of those 'last days'. Until now, there has not even been a possibility of a total fulfillment of those descriptions. Our society is a society of scoffers. And, as I think the second passage portrays, those who scoff don't necessarily have to be unbelievers:

" But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Matthew 24:43-51

There are several parts of this passage that are important - all of them accented in different ways (bold, italics and underline). The whole chapter talks of Christ's coming. It is certain. Only the Father knows the day and the hour. And the Lord of the servant implies those who are supposed to be doing His Will - but we see that they stop looking for Him to come. They wind up being VERY surprised at His return. The Kingdom exists NOW, but Christ's return is still to come. Not to set up His Kingdom, but to take total visible authority. Not all has been subdued to Him yet. When it is, He will hand it over to the Father:

" But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE DESTROYED IS DEATH.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
I Cor 15:20-28 (emphasis mine)

Note that I am not saying there is any rapture or anything like that, but that Christ returns at the point of the destruction of the heavens and the earth. "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will NEVER pass away..."

Responses? Comments?

Finally the correct answer is 'spoken' - BRAVO!

I am a Full Preterist and Full Futurist - Get that? Did I confuse you? - Remember the OT was written as a Shadow for the things that happened in the NT. The NT revealed those events- We now see those thing in the OT as "propechy" for that which happened.

All things have been fullfilled in the NT as well. But wait! Theres more

Just as the OT mapped out the future for the NT (physical to spiritual) - What it happen again - Those things that are written in the NT are our map for NOW!

For me - When a Full Pret reveals a fullfilled prophecy in the NT ...its a great thing , because I can then study the Spiritual meaning for NOW -> in the future.

Christ died to put Himself into us making the New Body - He will return to collect His New Body soon ...and in like manner as you saw him leave too - in the cloud of witnesses.

conpret · Jan 13, 2004

I was raised in the AOG denomination. My father and his father before him were AOG preachers. I thought I was saved as a child, but never really understood the gospel until the late 1980's. After that I began to study the bible with zeal, including eschatology. I had been influenced at that time to a fair degree by the teachings of a particular dispensational radio preacher, and developed a fair amount of respect for his opinion. Wanting to better understand eschatology, I purchased this preacher's "study bible" as a study aid. It should also be noted that during this time I came across the 88 reasons why Jesus will return in 1988 book. I can still remember sitting on my back porch with my wife counting down the hours, minutes, and then seconds until we would be "raptured" out of this miserable world. Although quite disappointed, I maintained my belief in yet future "rapture" and "return of Christ". Howerer, the more I studied, and read the study notes in my new study bible, the more confused I became. The various and numerous different aspects and phases of the numerous different comings taught by this commentator only added to the confusion. Although I was still farily convinced that the rapture was near I was troubled by the time indicators in the N.T. Matthew 24:34 haunted me constantly. Although I never considered the possibility that there was another way to view the nature of fulfillment I knew there was something very wrong with dispensational theology. I struggled with eschatology for several years and then pretty much just lost interest in it. Then about three or four years ago we found a small soverign grace church that we began attending. It was there that my futurist beliefs were first challenged. When I was first told of the beliefs of preterism I was quite skeptical. Although I was skeptical, out of respect for the pastor I agreed to investigate preterism to see if it had any merit. I read a couple of shorter books before being challenged to read "The Parousia" by Russell. I devoured the book in about one week. I couldn't put it down. I remember being afraid to read the next page, but somehow couldn't resist. The rest, as they say, is history. Although I am still have a lot of questions about certain portions of scripture, I am convinced beyone any reasonable doubt of the full preterist position. Praise God, Jesus kept His word!!

Ephron · Jan 20, 2004

I thought my dad was crazy when he told me about this viewpoint. I thought some crazed cult got to him. I remember thinking, if Jesus already returned, you might as well put a gun to my head if this is the new heavens and new earth. I had to bring him back to reality. I took my study to a new level and read and researched this view called preterism for months.

As I was preparing to talk my dad back to this earth and save him from this cult, a funny thing happened. I found that the arguments FOR realized eschatology/full preterism were based on such sound biblical doctrine, that I have embraced it myself (praise Jesus!).

Instead of seeing a future of destruction, I see the healing of the nations and a world getting better each millenia.

Imjustanant · May 17, 2004

Within 140 pages into this book I became a partial preterist (http://preteristarchive.com/Books/russell.html). After a couple years of dealing with the inconsistency of the partial position I became a full preterist.

Good thread

blessedbe · May 17, 2004

Imjustanant said:
Within 140 pages into this book I became a partial preterist (http://preteristarchive.com/Books/russell.html). After a couple years of dealing with the inconsistency of the partial position I became a full preterist.

Good thread

Am going to check out that site you linked in. Have not read all of this thread but the stories are fascinating.

stauron · May 19, 2004

Here is Before Jerusalem Fell online too :http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/html/kgbj/kgbj.html

I recommend it to anyone.

Hidden Manna · May 19, 2004

blessedbe said:
Am going to check out that site you linked in. Have not read all of this thread but the stories are fascinating.

Hi Blessedbe, If you go to the second page under Preterist Vs. Futurist you will find a real good artical about the second coming. It was just posted today by Eschatology a newbee

JNL · Nov 17, 2004

hi brothers in christ; i am new on this post, my name is jnl ,just found this post a couple of days ago ,can not quit reading finely found christians that excepts what jesus and the bible does say. l am preterism and proud of it ,please keep the good work

Blackmarch · Nov 17, 2004

Manifestation1*AD70 said:
How I came to embrace Preterism.

I would like to share with you how I came to embrace Preterism. You know how we are always hearing about the rapture and the end of the world coming on the television and radio programs. Well I was a futurist also and spent my time at night, listening to them preach on this subject over the radio.

One night while I was listening to them on the radio I fell into a deep sleep. While I was sleeping I started to feel as though I was on fire, and running a very high temperature, but yet I was still asleep.

Then I heard a voice from what I assumed to be the radio saying, "we are not living in the last days, Jesus has come."

As I begin to awake, I suddenly realized that I had also been crying in my sleep and found myself chanting over and over again "I love you Jesus." My pillow was soaking wet as though someone had saturated it with a bucket of water. All this happened between 1 and 2 AM.

The next night, I listened to the very same radio station but never heard anything like that again. From that point on it seemed like God had burned something deep within my soul forever. I would come home from work, spending hours studying. I even stayed in the house all weekend, closely examining the Bible. Studying the Bible almost become a obsession to me. It was like taking a drink of the clear water of life that proceeds from the throne of God and I could not stop drinking it.

I must admit that at first I really struggled, questioning if what I now saw in the Bible was really true. But as God promised, the more I looked for Him the more truth I found.

Many things fell into place like never before, and the Bible seemed to come alive. God opened my eyes to see who the New Testament letters were written to and why. I began, to understand the key to any passage of Scripture is a careful study into the language, culture, politics, and the historical setting in which it was originally written.

Rich nuggets of truth came forth from my daily studies in the book of Hebrews. As I studied, I learned that it takes the "cross, resurrection, and return of Christ" to complete our salvation. I learned to see things from God's perspective and not mans, that Death, to God, means to be separated from Him.

Spiritual Death is an enemy because it keeps people from God. God loved man and desired to be with him and be his God. This was not possible until Jesus Christ returned and removed the Old Covenant. Gods light and truth lead me to His holy hill and to His dwelling.

I could see more clearly than ever the face of God. God dwells in me like the Old Testament promised and I dwell in His glory because of the completed work of Christ. It is like the writer of Hebrews says we can now enter the Holiest by the blood of Christ (Hebrews 10:19).

I never pray anymore "dear Lord in heaven," for God now dwells-tabernacles within me. I am glad to call myself a preterist because if it were not for God opening my eyes, I would not be one today.

Wow, thanks for sharing your experience!

frost · Nov 17, 2004

blessedbe said:
Am going to check out that site you linked in. Have not read all of this thread but the stories are fascinating.

Hi blessedbe. It didn't take me long to see the logic of preterism. I was a futurist for all my Christian life and when I first read some preterist writings, I was amazed at how many complicated prophetic passages seem to suddenly make sense. I still cannot call myself a full-preterist (I tend to lean more to Amillenianism and partial preterism,) but have much respect for the full-preterist position; I just haven't really done all the study into it. Nevertheless, one thing it's totally convinced me of is Dispensationalism/Futurism is false.

blessings...

JNL · Nov 18, 2004

hi truth seekers; I am an older fellow, soon to be 62 , I only have a nineth grade education plus G.E.D ,I have just begun to teach myself how to type. so please forgive mispelled words and misplaced punctuation marks.as a child I was raised in a holiness church pentecost and later A.O.G from six years old to sixteen I went to church and sunday school regularly my morther being a pentecostal preacher was very strick. every thing of this world was a sin .we as children were not allowed to have T.V. cards, checkers, domino's,funny books and no movies. my dad was a good man, but he smoked and chewed beach nut because of this most though he wasn't quit saved, so he couldn't have much say in church matters. at the age of seventeen I got married. became a drunk, evil and wicked . hated every one and every thing , no longer went to church ,but my mothers prayers still echoed in my mind. dear god please let me live to see all my children grown and saved. then in 1980 god began working on me, I went back to church,A.O.G. where i was raised , my cousin being the pastor, by this time i was older and very tired of my life as a drunk. we had four children and haveing trouble in our marriage. the first night of church I went to the altar I was broken in heart, and cryed out to god for help and to be saved. after a while I felt like a new man. " Here is the miracle" two weeks later it came to me, I haven't even though of a beer, god had taken it out of my mind god had set me free , by that time the urge was gone. I had no desire to drank anymore. but I still smoking cigaretts, I even questioned god why .I knew smoking was a no=no in this church a SIN, haveing fingers pointed at me , I still stayed in the church for five years not missing one service . tried and tried to quit smoking , with the pastor growing impatient, because we were a black mark on his church, he got a out of town preacher to come and hold a revial . I was talking to the preacher befor the service started and tolded him I smoked , and ask him if he would remember me in his prayers. when the service started the first thing he said was Iam going to put the lid on it and put it on tight. if you smoke you are not saved! that tore my heart out , I felt like every eye in the church was looking at me . I wanted to hide under the bench ,that killed me ,it ripped my heart out . I thought i was saved,I felt I was but I found out I wasn't. that was the best thing that could have ever happened to me . but I didn't know it then. I left church devastated. crying ,and brokend . I went home and got down in the floor beside my bed , and I cryed, and cryed ,and called upon jesus. from my soul .I dont know how to get saved , but if you can help me please,please,help me . THE day you seek god with all of your heart and soul is the day you will find him! THE next morning I woke up at three thirty am with a strong desire to find out what the bible says and dos'nt say . for three and a haft years I studyed the bible from front to back .compairing scripture to scripture, letting scripture interpet scripture. I found good news in the gosple . IT changed from works plus faith, TO faith plus grace , I went from a futurist, to a preterism . I now know what world came to an end, when it ended and how it ended . I now know what genration and upon what people the end of the world came. PLEASE forgive me for being so long winded. BUT there maY BE OTHERS who have been cast out, hurt badely, and desperate to find help . I haven't gone to church in seven years, because I can't find a church that teaches the bible like it reads . I do believe there is sencere people in every denomation, through my studyes of the bible I have found out with gods spirit liveing in me I can love my enemys , forgive so I will be forgiven! AND one more thang ,I dont believe there will be no pentecostals, no baptist no catholic , no denomations of any kind in heaven. JUST CHRISTIANS LOVE YOU TRUTH SEEKERS

JNL · Nov 18, 2004

Hi Truth seekers
Question?
Has any one search the Bible and found the meaning to 666?

JNL · Nov 18, 2004

Hi truth seekers
Question?
Has any one searched the Bible and found the meaning of 666 ?

Imblessed · Nov 18, 2004

frost said:
Hi blessedbe. It didn't take me long to see the logic of preterism. I was a futurist for all my Christian life and when I first read some preterist writings, I was amazed at how many complicated prophetic passages seem to suddenly make sense. I still cannot call myself a full-preterist (I tend to lean more to Amillenianism and partial preterism,) but have much respect for the full-preterist position; I just haven't really done all the study into it. Nevertheless, one thing it's totally convinced me of is Dispensationalism/Futurism is false.

blessings...

Hi frost, thanks for the encouragement. I posted that (it's my old name) way back in May when I first joined CF and found out there was some other way of interpreting Revelation. I had never heard of any other view besides a pre-trib rapture, dispensation type of thinking. I was having real trouble understanding it, and when I came upon this 'preterist' view, I was completely fascinated. Like you, the logic was undeniable!

I guess you could say now after several months of questions and study, I'm at the very least, a partial preterist. I also now hold to convental instead of dispensations; and I'm now a Calvinist, although a pretty laid back calvinist! So, I've done quite a bit of changing over the last 6 months or so!

I haven't totally joined up with the full preterist camp yet.....but I'm getting closer all the time. I think preterist thinking could really make a difference in the churches right now, I really don't like the escapist attitude of pre-trib rapturists...at least the ones who are rabid about it.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and hope to see you around more!

Imblessed · Nov 18, 2004

JNL

thanks for the AWESOME testimony! Glad you stuck with Jesus and didn't let the church get you down!

Have you got views on 666?

I've heard preterists explain it, and it makes alot of sense. Hopefully one of the preterists on here will jump in and explain it. It's something about the last emperor, I think.

I'm pretty new to this, so I can't think of it off the top of my head! I'll try to find a link for you that may explain what they think.....

Imblessed · Nov 18, 2004

JNL,

Oh, wanted to tell you, when my dad became a christian, God also cured him of alcoholism in the very same way He did you! The interesting thing is, dad also didn't quit smoking, in fact, he still does and it's been 30 some years. I often wonder why God didn't cure him of that habit, but cured him of alcoholism. Maybe dad didn't want to be cured of his smoking habit!! I guess it's something I'll only find out later!

Imblessed · Nov 18, 2004

JNL

Try this page out...... www.planetpreterist.com

It's got some good info on it, and has some info on it about Emperor Nero and 666. It's a great website about preterism. Enjoy!

frost · Nov 18, 2004

Imblessed said:
Hi frost, thanks for the encouragement. I posted that (it's my old name) way back in May when I first joined CF and found out there was some other way of interpreting Revelation. I had never heard of any other view besides a pre-trib rapture, dispensation type of thinking. I was having real trouble understanding it, and when I came upon this 'preterist' view, I was completely fascinated. Like you, the logic was undeniable!

I guess you could say now after several months of questions and study, I'm at the very least, a partial preterist. I also now hold to convental instead of dispensations; and I'm now a Calvinist, although a pretty laid back calvinist! So, I've done quite a bit of changing over the last 6 months or so!

I haven't totally joined up with the full preterist camp yet.....but I'm getting closer all the time. I think preterist thinking could really make a difference in the churches right now, I really don't like the escapist attitude of pre-trib rapturists...at least the ones who are rabid about it.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement and hope to see you around more!

Doh! I didn't realize that was from May.

JNL · Nov 19, 2004

hi truth seekers.

How I came to embrace Preterism.

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