How holy is the New Testament?

[Andrewofthetribe]

I cannot give you an answer because the answer I have may violate the statement of purpose in this section.

As for the signs and wonders, I absolutely cannot tell anyone.

Why can't you tell anyone the signs and wonders? What part of the sop will it violate?

 

[singpraise]

The simple answer, for me, is the entire OT is foreshadowing the entire NT. Many bible scholars have noted this. Your question is "is it holy," how can the Word of God not be holy? However, I will stayed tuned to this thread because there are smart people here. I'm learning so much on this forum and glad I joined. It's helping my faith grow even more.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

The simple answer, for me, is the entire OT is foreshadowing the entire NT. Many bible scholars have noted this. Your question is "is it holy," how can the Word of God not be holy? However, I will stayed tuned to this thread because there are smart people here. I'm learning so much on this forum we and glad I joined. It's helping my faith grow even more.

Me too, it's bringing my beliefs down to earth somehow. I do feel like I'm playing devils advocate sometimes but I need to cover all bases lol

 

[singpraise]

Thanks Ted, I honestly feel that I have felt the Holy Spirit come upon me and I wept for Christ. I never read the bible and I was not going to church, this is such an illogical faith for me, that I can't see the bible like others but I'm sure God touched me in some way.
I have been trying to make sense of it all but I can't. It's why I'm so curious about scripture.
To make matters worse I have an aversion to reading the bible as I think it's boring, it just doesn't make sense that I feel the way I do. Yet in spite of this I feel so sure God has spoken to me and revealed his son to me.

Do you find the New Testament boring? I find the Old Testament a challenge sometimes (except Psalms), but the New Testament is so full of beauty and vivid life to me. You don't have to read the entire Bible at once. Try a different translation, perhaps. Even try just opening it and reading one passage and meditating on that passage. You may learn incrementally and that's ok. Allow it to speak to you personally. The Bible isn't just a regular book. There is no other like it on earth.

 

[singpraise]

Me too, it's bringing my beliefs down to earth somehow. I do feel like I'm playing devils advocate sometimes but I need to cover all bases lol

That's actually a wise stance, I feel. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

Do you find the New Testament boring? I find the Old Testament a challenge sometimes (except Psalms), but the New Testament is so full of beauty and vivid life to me. You don't have to read the entire Bible at once. Try a different translation, perhaps. Even try just opening it and reading one passage and meditating on that passage. You may learn incrementally and that's ok. Allow it to speak to you personally. The Bible isn't just a regular book. There is no other like it on earth.

No I don't find it boring I love the stories of Jesus. I don't doubt God and I don't doubt Jesus.
I really feel the Holy Spirit came upon me three nights after I felt the presence of God ( I even knew it was the God of Abraham , the next night I had a vision of being sat on the mount close by to Jesus, I could not hear him and I could not see him but I felt he was real and he was a reality. I actually felt like I was there. The night I felt the Holy Spirit I wept for Jesus on the cross.
This is so bizarre for me, even my wife thinks I'm nuts, I dare not even mention it to my friends anymore as they think I have gone all religious.
Yet in my mind I cannot separate the belief that the New Testament had the doings of men about it.That things have been corrupted, I cannot seem to believe the words!
I know Jesus and God exsist but my poor mind won't let me see the scriptures.

 

[miamited]

Thanks Ted, I honestly feel that I have felt the Holy Spirit come upon me and I wept for Christ. I never read the bible and I was not going to church, this is such an illogical faith for me, that I can't see the bible like others but I'm sure God touched me in some way.
I have been trying to make sense of it all but I can't. It's why I'm so curious about scripture.
To make matters worse I have an aversion to reading the bible as I think it's boring, it just doesn't make sense that I feel the way I do. Yet in spite of this I feel so sure God has spoken to me and revealed his son to me.

Hi AOTT,

Well, we do need to be careful regarding what we believe and trust about our 'feelings'. I'm not denying what you've said, but merely making a caution about relying on them Our heart is wicked!!! The sooner we come to terms with that fact, the better off we are. We are not to lean on our own understanding.

If I may, let me describe a bit of my life and my experience and feelings and so forth in coming to know God.

I was raised in a local fellowship of believers. My grandfather was a wonderful pastor and teacher all of his life. From the time that he graduated seminary as a young 20 something man until the final years of his life, he was preaching in various fellowships. I believe he was a godly man. I honestly believe that it may well be that the very reason God drew me to Him was because of the prayers of my grandfather. His daughter, my mother, not so much. She always played the game. In worship pretty much every Sunday, sang in the choir and did many of the other fellowship participation things. Married a man, my father, who was definitely not. He was also a game player as my mother was, but you could clearly see that his life was not about God. He pretty regularly had a 'girl' on the side and just generally did not practice any type of godliness, except to be in a worship service on Sunday.

So, that's how I grew up to understand 'church'. It was something that you did on Sunday and if you were ever filling out a form that said 'religion', you always ticked off 'christian'. I, like you, had no idea what the Scriptures said and had never read them and found them also terribly boring to just sit and read. But, if you asked me if I was a christian? Yep! Heck, I was baptized and that was the dividing line, just as many say it is today. However, I've since learned that what Jesus said about being baptized is that one must be 'baptized and believe'. Yes, I'd been baptized - no I wasn't any sort of believer.

Yes, I knew and grew up with all the cutesy little songs about Noah and the animals 'two by two'. I'd sung about climbing Jacob's ladder and Joseph's coat of many colors. I went to church camp every summer in my teens. It's where I first found sex!!! Being a 'christian' was great!

When I was about 40 the pastor at the fellowship I was attending gave a message about the prophecies of Jesus in the Scriptures. Yea, I'd heard of the ones that are so popular around Christmas time, but I'd never really given any thought to their implication. I guess I'd never really stopped and considered the reality of their coming to pass. They were just neat stories to me.

That all changed! I found myself in my bedroom one evening on my knees literally crying out to God to save me. I prayed fervently that God, through His Spirit, would give me an unquenchable thirst to know Him. To understand Him. To love Him. Friend, it is my truthful testimony that for about the next two years I couldn't put the Scriptures down. Just as we read about Paul's conversion and then his going away for awhile to learn of God, I had that same experience. I literally and truly thirst for the knowledge of God. I was convicted and convinced that I had been born again. I understood and could clearly see how all my life up until this moment, I had also been playing the 'I'm a christian' game. It is my fervent and steadfast belief that when someone is born again -- they will know it!

Your entire worldview changes. What and who you depend on for truth is different from most everyone else. Jesus said that it was the job of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. That's exactly what he does! Jesus said that without the Spirit of God there is no understanding of the things of God. That's true!

That's my testimony of my experience of being born again. Now, many will tell you that's it different for everyone. I would agree that the circumstances and particulars about how each and everyone of those who the Scriptures say have the right to be called children of God, come to the truth. But, firmly and steadfastly believe that these two truths that Jesus spoke of will be evident in such a person who has been born again. The Scriptures tell us that if we lack wisdom in anything we should go before the throne of God and ask Him for wisdom and discernment and that He delights in answering that request. I believe that!

Friend, look. It's not about being a christian. It's about being born again. When one is born again, I am firmly convicted that they soon come to understand that God's word is true. I may not understand it all and there are things I may not, in my human nature, agree is how I would have done things, but I know that God's word is true.

Why do I believe that?

Continued.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

AOTT,

Why do I believe that God's word is true? Why do I believe that the things we find written to us by the first disciples of Jesus is true and uncorrupted by men?

Because I understand the 'plan'. I know that God loves me and I know that God wants me to know the truth. I know that God wants me to love Him. Because I know all this, I also know that the Scriptures are true. Yes, all of what we call the Scriptures today. I know that because I know that God's purpose is for all mankind to know Him and He has done this through the Scriptures, and therefore, He must preserve the Scriptures.

I would ask you, what word or words that you find in the Scriptures do you have a hard time believing? You say that you are stumbling over the new covenant writings. What exactly are you stumbling over. I hear all the time 'christians' saying that they can't believe or agree that God actually did all the things He claimed to have done in the old covenant, but honestly, I find very, very few people who see things in the new covenant that they don't agree are true.

If you're interested in pursuing this further, I'd be happy to offer up any explanation that I might have for any questions that you might have. We can do it here or through PM.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

Hi AOTT,

Well, we do need to be careful regarding what we believe and trust about our 'feelings'. I'm not denying what you've said, but merely making a caution about relying on them Our heart is wicked!!! The sooner we come to terms with that fact, the better off we are. We are not to lean on our own understanding.

If I may, let me describe a bit of my life and my experience and feelings and so forth in coming to know God.

I was raised in a local fellowship of believers. My grandfather was a wonderful pastor and teacher all of his life. From the time that he graduated seminary as a young 20 something man until the final years of his life, he was preaching in various fellowships. I believe he was a godly man. I honestly believe that it may well be that the very reason God drew me to Him was because of the prayers of my grandfather. His daughter, my mother, not so much. She always played the game. In worship pretty much every Sunday, sang in the choir and did many of the other fellowship participation things. Married a man, my father, who was definitely not. He was also a game player as my mother was, but you could clearly see that his life was not about God. He pretty regularly had a 'girl' on the side and just generally did not practice any type of godliness, except to be in a worship service on Sunday.

So, that's how I grew up to understand 'church'. It was something that you did on Sunday and if you were ever filling out a form that said 'religion', you always ticked off 'christian'. I, like you, had no idea what the Scriptures said and had never read them and found them also terribly boring to just sit and read. But, if you asked me if I was a christian? Yep! Heck, I was baptized and that was the dividing line, just as many say it is today. However, I've since learned that what Jesus said about being baptized is that one must be 'baptized and believe'. Yes, I'd been baptized - no I wasn't any sort of believer.

Yes, I knew and grew up with all the cutesy little songs about Noah and the animals 'two by two'. I'd sung about climbing Jacob's ladder and Joseph's coat of many colors. I went to church camp every summer in my teens. It's where I first found sex!!! Being a 'christian' was great!

When I was about 40 the pastor at the fellowship I was attending gave a message about the prophecies of Jesus in the Scriptures. Yea, I'd heard of the ones that are so popular around Christmas time, but I'd never really given any thought to their implication. I guess I'd never really stopped and considered the reality of their coming to pass. They were just neat stories to me.

That all changed! I found myself in my bedroom one evening on my knees literally crying out to God to save me. I prayed fervently that God, through His Spirit, would give me an unquenchable thirst to know Him. To understand Him. To love Him. Friend, it is my truthful testimony that for about the next two years I couldn't put the Scriptures down. Just as we read about Paul's conversion and then his going away for awhile to learn of God, I had that same experience. I literally and truly thirst for the knowledge of God. I was convicted and convinced that I had been born again. I understood and could clearly see how all my life up until this moment, I had also been playing the 'I'm a christian' game. It is my fervent and steadfast belief that when someone is born again -- they will know it!

Your entire worldview changes. What and who you depend on for truth is different from most everyone else. Jesus said that it was the job of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. That's exactly what he does! Jesus said that without the Spirit of God there is no understanding of the things of God. That's true!

That's my testimony of my experience of being born again. Now, many will tell you that's it different for everyone. I would agree that the circumstances and particulars about how each and everyone of those who the Scriptures say have the right to be called children of God, come to the truth. But, firmly and steadfastly believe that these two truths that Jesus spoke of will be evident in such a person who has been born again. The Scriptures tell us that if we lack wisdom in anything we should go before the throne of God and ask Him for wisdom and discernment and that He delights in answering that request. I believe that!

Friend, look. It's not about being a christian. It's about being born again. When one is born again, I am firmly convicted that they soon come to understand that God's word is true. I may not understand it all and there are things I may not, in my human nature, agree is how I would have done things, but I know that God's word is true.

Why do I believe that?

Continued.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

The scriptures tell you how to live your life Ted. I don't like being told what to do from a book that has a shady history. That's how I see it, maybe I'm just going to spend my life like a heretic, I don't know. Let's hope your right and I suddenly get a thirst for them, am I to presume I'm doomed if I don't?

 

[pdudgeon]

How shall we achieve this?

the best way of all is via personal testimony.
anyone can doubt signs and wonders, but no one can question a personal testimony. Or better yet, two testimonies that agree with each other.
That's what it took in a Jewish court of Law to convict, and that's what the Jewish elders tried to fabricate against Jesus, but could not do so.

 

[Colter]

The Great Commission is not a call to convert the world, it says, "Go and make disciples." A disciple is a student not a proselyte and and so the idea is that God draws them and once He does and they are seeking, they will find. Meaning, once that spark is lit and they become hungry for me, we then have a willing student that we can teach.

This is a very good point, its the truth. Jesus spoke truth and attracted the sincere of heart who sought truth. The Bible certainly isn't perfect but there is enough to to impregnate our harts with the conviction of truth. Its God within our hearts that bears witness, and that is "the rock" that Jesus referred to. The 4 gospels present Jesus as imperfect men remembered him and his teachings. We have enough to immortalize the times of Jesus on earth. Those books have changed the coarse of the Western world.


Thanks again. Keep up the good work!

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

This is a very good point, its the truth. Jesus spoke truth and attracted the sincere of heart who sought truth. The Bible certainly isn't perfect but there is enough to to impregnate our harts with the conviction of truth. Its God within our hearts that bears witness, and that is "the rock" that Jesus referred to. The 4 gospels present Jesus as imperfect men remembered him and his teachings. We have enough to immortalize the times of Jesus on earth. Those books have changed the coarse of the Western world.


Thanks again. Keep up the good work!

Yes these books have shaped the western world, should any of us dare look back at Christian history ? Many acts have been committed in the name of Christ and still are.Not many truly try and tread his path.

 

[miamited]

The scriptures tell you how to live your life Ted. I don't like being told what to do from a book that has a shady history. That's how I see it, maybe I'm just going to spend my life like a heretic, I don't know. Let's hope your right and I suddenly get a thirst for them, am I to presume I'm doomed if I don't?

Hi AOTT,

Ok, that's fine with me. There are a lot of people that feel that way. It is my understanding that if anyone does not love God and the things of God, that person is living in unrepentant sin. How you can possibly think that the Scriptures have a 'shady' history tells me that you are more wanting to listen to those who teach against the things of God, than those who want to teach for the things of God The world is full of such people and you are just one more.

You see, friend, you haven't thought it through. Just as there was a time in my young life that I hadn't either. Let's play a hypothetical: You're god. How are you going to make yourself known to all people for thousands of years?

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Ken Rank]

Yes these books have shaped the western world, should any of us dare look back at Christian history ? Many acts have been committed in the name of Christ and still are.Not many truly try and tread his path.

You're right... but poor interpretation and bad actions by others doesn't mean the book is wrong, it means they are wrong. I do get your point. Here is a letter I wrote (posted on this site), an open letter to the Jewish people and a response from a rabbi. I think this kind of dialogue is possible if we proceed without repeating history.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

Hi AOTT,

Ok, that's fine with me. There are a lot of people that feel that way. It is my understanding that if anyone does not love God and the things of God, that person is living in unrepentant sin. How you can possibly think that the Scriptures have a 'shady' history tells me that you are more wanting to listen to those who teach against the things of God, than those who want to teach for the things of God The world is full of such people and you are just one more.

You see, friend, you haven't thought it through. Just as there was a time in my young life that I hadn't either. Let's play a hypothetical: You're god. How are you going to make yourself known to all people for thousands of years?

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

Are you telling me because my views are a little different from yours that I would rather look for reasons to hate God? please don't tell me anymore bad news Ted it sickens my heart.

 

[miamited]

Hi AOTT,

You replied:

Many acts have been committed in the name of Christ and still are.Not many truly try and tread his path.

You're right! This is exactly what Jesus was talking about when he told his disciples of the day of his Father's judgment and the many who would be crying out to him. All those crying out, are the one's you're talking about. They thought they were doing right by God. Look, the Jews even thought that they were doing right by God in putting Jesus to death. They claimed of him that he was a madman and a liar and a deceiver. That he was, rather than giving the true testimony of the Father, blaspheming God.

Yes, it's a wicked world in which we live, filled with wicked people with wicked hearts. Filled even with people who think that what they are doing is righteous in God's sight. These are the very same type of people that God, through Isaiah, prophesied of. The ass knows it's manger, but my people have no understanding.

BTW I asked you what particular parts of the new covenant you were having trouble with. Will you be answering that query?

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

You're right... but poor interpretation and bad actions by others doesn't mean the book is wrong, it means they are wrong. I do get your point. Here is a letter I wrote (posted on this site), an open letter to the Jewish people and a response from a rabbi. I think this kind of dialogue is possible if we proceed without repeating history.

But is it from not questioning the authority around us that people have been tricked into thinking they were serving a Christian country with God on their side, when in fact they were serving kings? It's who the message comes through for me, enough people have died listening to men's interpretations of the New Testament. I just need to somehow see a reason to trust it.

 

[Andrewofthetribe]

Hi AOTT,

You replied:


You're right! This is exactly what Jesus was talking about when he told his disciples of the day of his Father's judgment and the many who would be crying out to him. All those crying out, are the one's you're talking about. They thought they were doing right by God. Look, the Jews even thought that they were doing right by God in putting Jesus to death. They claimed of him that he was a madman and a liar and a deceiver. That he was, rather than giving the true testimony of the Father, blaspheming God.

Yes, it's a wicked world in which we live, filled with wicked people with wicked hearts. Filled even with people who think that what they are doing is righteous in God's sight. These are the very same type of people that God, through Isaiah, prophesied of. The ass knows it's manger, but my people have no understanding.

BTW I asked you what particular parts of the new covenant you were having trouble with. Will you be answering that query?

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

But you do Ted? How shall I trust what you say when thousands of other men seemed so trustworthy. How shall I know you ?
It's who stands behind the bible

 

[miamited]

Are you telling me because my views are a little different from yours that I would rather look for reasons to hate God? please don't tell me anymore bad news Ted it sickens my heart.

Hi AOTT,

No, I'm not telling you that 'because your views are a little different from mine that you are looking for reasons to hate God'. I'm just telling you my testimony and then confirming for you some of what the Scriptures say. If it is bad news for you, then you'd likely better start looking into what the Scriptures do say - if eternal life is what you seek. Don't trust my words. Be a Berean!! Take my words and measure them against the Scriptures before you decide whether my words are true or not. Paul commended the Bereans for doing exactly that. But, you can't do that because you don't have any trust in the truthfulness of the Scriptures. Likely everywhere that you find my words to you agree with the Scriptures, you're going to say to yourself, "Well, that's a part that I don't trust to be true." You have no dependable measuring rod of truth.

Listen, friend, Nicodemus was a pharisee. He was a man who thought of himself that he knew the truth of God and had given of his life to teach the truth of God. Yet, Jesus spoke plainly to him that he didn't. Do you want to be a Nicodemus or a Berean? It's your choice! I can't make it for you. But, I can tell you what the Scriptures say.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

But you do Ted? How shall I trust what you say when thousands of other men seemed so trustworthy. How shall I know you ?
It's who stands behind the bible

Hi AOTT,

See above post from me. Before you put your trust in anything I've said, be a Berean! But, you can't because of the reason I stated above. You see, the Bereans knew that they could trust the Scriptures.

God bless you,
In Christ, Ted