How has Christ fulfilled the fall festivals?

[LoveGodsWord]

You'll have to take it up with Hebrews, where there remains God's own full-time Sabbath rest for the people of God in the NT.

Hello Clare, I might break my response down into smaller posts so they are easier to respond to in order to discuss scripture detail and contexts if it might be helpful to the discussion. There is nothing in Hebrews promoting what your promoting here in regards to God's 4th commandment Sabbath being a "shadow law". I am happy to have a discussion on scripture detail and contexts if your interested. I asked you earlier, how can the "seventh day" Sabbath of creation which is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments be figurative of anything? According to the scriptures God's Sabbath was made as a memorial (Remember - Exodus 20:8) which points backwards to the finished work of creation and to God as the creator of Heaven and earth (see Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) not forwards to things to come (Colossians 2:16-17). Your mixing up the annual shadow sabbaths (plural) in the annual Feast days that are "shadow sabbaths" connected to the annual Feast days. God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is every seventh day of the week linked to creation as an everlasting covenant *Exodus 31:16-17. There was no Mosaic law, no prophetic shadow laws, no Feast days, no sin, no Moses, no Jew and no plan of salvation given because mankind had not sinned. Your mixing up the Mosaic "shadow laws" (annual Feast days) given after man sinned which were prophetic laws of things to come with God's eternal laws that will be continued in the new earth (Isaiah 66:22-23). God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the new covenant scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin. Your response to the questions and scriptures shared with you earlier was to simply to ignore the questions asked of you and the scriptures provided that disagree with your teachings here. Of course you do not have to answer my questions asked of you if you do not want to if you do not know what the answer are. Perhaps you can pray about it?

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The Sabbaths within the feast days are not figurative of anything. It is the feast/season that is figurative.

No one said the sabbaths within the annual Feast days were figurative it is their application to the Feast days that is context to what was posted to you earlier. They are shadow sabbaths applied to the annual Feast days. So why make arguments no one is arguing about. They were called "shadow sabbaths because of their inclusion and application to the annual Feast days. This is because unlike God's 4th commandment which is every "seventh day" of the week, the annual sabbaths only have application to the annual Feast days and are only linked to the annual Feast days. These special ceremonial sabbaths inside the Feast days are not the same as God's 4th commandment. These ceremonial sabbaths in the annual Feast days unlike God's 4th commandment can fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. There are also days of "Holy convocation" where no work is done which is also included in the Greek word meaning of sabbath as σάββατον; sabbaton "a day of weekly repose" (Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521). There are many different kinds of sabbaths in Leviticus 23 that are not God's 4th commandment that are special sabbaths and also elsewhere in the old testament that are not the same as God's 4th commandment but only have their origin and purpose in application to the annual Feasts or years and have no other purpose or application to God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. These annual ceremonial Feast sabbaths (including holy convocations where no work was allowed) include; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36). Therefore according to the scriptures it remains (left behind) for the people of God to keep the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:9).

More to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Wrong. . . As with the Lamb of God slain, (Revelation 5:12), all was decreed before the foundations of the world, not after Adam sinned.

Here let me help you with this again if it might be helpful to the discussion here. There was no Mosaic law, no prophetic shadow laws, no Feast days, no sin, no Moses, no Jew and no plan of salvation given when God made the seventh day Sabbath because mankind had not sinned. Now lets talk scripture and detail please. Revelation 5:12 says that God knowing the end from the beginning and seeing mankind would fall into sin and making a plan of salvation is not the same as the timing as to when that plan of salvation is applied and put into action. For example God cannot put his plan of salvation for mankind from sin into action before mankind is created right? Just the same as God cannot put His plan of salvation into action before mankind has sinned!. Now let me show the same thing in a different way if it might help the conversation here. According to the scriptures mankind (Adam and Eve) were created on the 6th day of the creation week *Genesis 1:26-31. God's seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments was made on the 7th day of the creation week *Genesis 2:1-3 before sin and before the fall of mankind where God blessed the 7th day of the week and made it a holy day of rest for all mankind to rest join God in His rest as a memorial of creation. *see Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11; Genesis 2:1-3. Sin did not happen until sometime latter after God made all creation and the seven day weekly cycle according to the scriptures just provided above. So let me ask you to provide scripture for your teachings here.

Q1. Was there any Mosaic law or Feast days when God made the seventh day Sabbath *Genesis 2:1-3?
Q2. Was there any sin when God made the seventh day Sabbath *Genesis 2:1-3?
Q3. Was there and Moses, Jew or Israel when God made the seventh day Sabbath *Genesis 2:1-3
Q4. Was there any plan of salvation given to mankind before they sinned? Genesis 1:31

If you honestly answer the above questions then the answer is of course not. Therefore what is wrong in what was posted to you earlier where it was stated, "There was no Mosaic law, no prophetic shadow laws, no Feast days, no sin, no Moses, no Jew and no plan of salvation given because mankind had not sinned? I never once made the argument that God did not have a plan of salvation ready for mankind in case he sinned so why pretend that is the argument that I am making? Your understanding of the sabbaths as applied to Leviticus 23 is not adequately apprehended in your response..

As proven from the scriptures above it is impossible for God's "7th day" 4th commandment of the 10 commandments to be a "shadow" of anything because it points backwards to the finished work of creation as a memorial ("Remember" - Exodus 20:8) of creation and God as the creator of heaven and earth that he made for all mankind (Mark 2:27-28) and not forward to things to come (Colossians 2:16)

more to come...

 

[LoveGodsWord]

God's 4th commandment is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin.

Your response here...

Not according to the NT. . .you're in the wrong testament. The Ten Commandments are subsumed in Jesus' two NT laws (Romans 13:8-10). The ceremonial laws (sacrificial, defilement, cleansing, food, etc.) have been abolished on the cross (Ephesians 2:15) and set aside (Hebrews 7:18). The civil laws were rendered inoperative when the nation was destroyed. The Mosaic covenant has been rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13). A totally new order (Hebrews 9:9-10) has been established with a new priesthood (Hebrews 7:24-28).

What do you mean God's 4th commandment is not one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11? That is what the new covenant scriptures teach. They are not my words but God's Word. Everything else you have posted in this section of your post has nothing to do with what you are responding to so is not relevant to our discussion as I have never once argued that the ceremonial "shadow laws" and civil laws are not fulfilled and continued in Christ. We were talking about God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 James 2:10-11). This of course all being on context to your earlier claims in regards to the creation Sabbath of God's 4th commandment being a "shadow law" fulfilled in Christ. As posted earlier the scriptures do not agree with your understanding of this subject matter. The purpose of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant, including God's 4th commandment is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *see Galatians 3:22-25. According to Jesus, in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10; James in James 2:8-12 and John in 1 John 5:2-3 love is expressed in obedience to God's law not by breaking God's law and according to James and Paul if we knowingly break anyone of God's 10 commandments including Gods' 4th commandment we stand guilty before God of sin *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 2:10-11; Hebrews 10:26-27. The is why Jesus says "On these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets" - Matthew 22:36-40. Love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law through faith not by breaking God's law according to the scriptures (see Romans 3:31 and 1 John 2:3-4).

Take Care

 

[PesachPup]

We all agree that Christ has fulfilled the Jewish spring festivals. (Passover, Unleavened bread, First fruits, and Pentecost) However differences of opinion arise when it comes to the fall/autumn festivals of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles.

Some say the fall festivals prefigure the resurrection at the last trump and are yet to be fulfilled. Others, in particular those of Preterist persuasion, say they were fulfilled in AD 70.

I'm not sure how amil Christians view this. (Im not sure myself) So, how did Christ fulfil the Jewish fall festivals, and if they haven’t yet, when?

The scriptures don't agree with your initial premise...

Luk 22:15-16 KJV 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be FULFILLED in the kingdom of God.

I think you mean foreshadowed, and not fulfilled/plerooo. Pleroo means to bring to an end or completion. Christ said that it would not be fulfilled until the kingdom of God shall come...

Luk 22:17-18 KJV 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

The events of Christ's 1st advent foreshadowed the Passover, firstfruits and the 50th say, ala Pentecost, but they are not fulfilled nor are they irrelevant to the 2nd advent. The "bread of affliction" will most likely be fulfilled in the time of great affliction that we know as the coming great tribulation.
Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[Andrewn]

Hi @Christian Gedge :

A couple of years ago you had a thread about historical world empires in eschatology. I would like to reread that thread but can't find it. Would you please give the link?

Thx.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Hi @Christian Gedge :

A couple of years ago you had a thread about historical world empires in eschatology. I would like to reread that thread but can't find it. Would you please give the link?

Thx.

Is this the one? AD 70 to AD 622 - prophecy unfolding?

 

[Andrewn]

Is this the one? AD 70 to AD 622 - prophecy unfolding?

Perfect. This is exactly it. It's quite informative. Thank you very much.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I'm pretty certain I have pointed out in the past to you that I take the NHNE to begin with the 2nd coming and that I also take the thousand years to be meaning the first thousand years of the NHNE.

Yes, I guess you have mentioned that before. I can't take that view seriously. It completely contradicts Revelation 21:1-4 which is very straightforward and makes it very clear that when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in there will be no more death, crying, sorrow or pain at that point.

This once again illustrates the difference in our approaches. I believe we need to start with the foundation of clear NT scripture and allow that to shed light on OT scripture. I think it's quite clear that Zechariah 14 is not describing the new heavens and new earth.

 

[Kenneth Heck]

The months between the Spring and Fall festivals represent the diaspora of the Jews beginning 70 AD and lasting until about 1948 when the state of Israel began.

I see the Feast of Trumpets representing the gathering of the Jews to Israel beginning around 1948 and lasting until the next World War. (Num 10:1-10) The trumpets sound the alarm to warn the people to return to the Holy Land.

The Atonement represents the day of the second coming of Christ in Judgment. (Zec 3:9 "... I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.")

The Feast of Tabernacles represents the resurrection, where the new body is represented by the booth. The resurrection is the ultimate promise for the whole house of Israel.