How Fauci Fooled America

[RDKirk]

So just keep changing as the facts develop (which is the logical thing to do, just to make it clear)? That's a recipe for more distrust than people already have in the CDC and WHO because of utterly incompetent education in America at large where people think that science never changes without a shred of demonstration for that

Not when you are always clear about what conditions cause assessments (don't refer to them as "facts") to change. When I was giving threat briefings, the situation changed every few hours, and I explained the how and why of the changes.

 

[RDKirk]

Problem is the situation might've been serious, but you're also dealing with an unstable narcissist that just as soon will mobilize his "populist grassroots" cronies to lob abuse at the person to silence them into submission.

What you think should've been done assumes that integrity wins out in the end with a context where one side is utilizing ochlocratic fascist tactics and the other is trying their best to advocate sound science

Let's not forget that the route Fauci took ultimately failed and left him looking untrustworthy. It's not as though "all's well that ends well."

He hasn't ended well, and now there are additional serious issues such as his involvement with likely gain of function experiments at Wuhan. I don't believe Fauci was involved in such work, but I do think the Chinese scientists at Wuhan were, and Fauci has damaged his own trustworthiness.

If he'd been forthright from the beginning, he would have at least been able to claim honesty all along.

 

[Pommer]

No it won't. It will always be there. Just like measles, cholera and polio are still with us. The only two diseases that have been officially eradicated are smallpox and rinderpest. So...keep taking the tablets (or in this case, the injections).

Still, this brings up the “vaccine-paradox” argument that is a staple of anti-vax logic:
Since we’re using science (evolution) eventually we will end up creating the bug that finally wipes us off the face of the Earth because nature is going to win, it always wins so don’t futz with it too much.

Like the end of Titanic, Jack’s “wisdom” in saving Rose was to waiting to do anything until he had no choice.

 

[RDKirk]

Still, this brings up the “vaccine-paradox” argument that is a staple of anti-vax logic:
Since we’re using science (evolution) eventually we will end up creating the bug that finally wipes us off the face of the Earth because nature is going to win, it always wins so don’t futz with it too much.

Vaccines are the use of nature. There is nothing unnatural about them.

 

[Pommer]

Vaccines are the use of nature. There is nothing unnatural about them.

Right, viruses (in effect) use us as a “food source”.
Vaccines make us less appetizing.
Guided-selection, though, not “natural selection”.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Sounds like they should have tried harder, doesn't it.

Florida is doing great. Better than the northeast states and California, with their draconian laws.

 

[Bradskii]

Florida is doing great. Better than the northeast states and California, with their draconian laws.

I think that your idea of what constitutes a good response to covid is different to mine.

 

[muichimotsu]

Not when you are always clear about what conditions cause assessments (don't refer to them as "facts") to change. When I was giving threat briefings, the situation changed every few hours, and I explained the how and why of the changes.

Clarity to the uneducated masses is irrelevant, because they just move the goalposts to fit their conspiracy theories so they can feel confident and safe and assuage their paranoid delusional fears

Problem is, even if you're doing everything right, you cannot assume that the public will 1) be able to comprehend it and 2)be able to respond in a rational and calculated fashion. Give the lowest common denominator too much credit and you just lower the bar further

 

[muichimotsu]

Florida is doing great. Better than the northeast states and California, with their draconian laws.

Not sure what your standards of "great" are, but when the governor, afaik, is still trying to take away local power, that seems pretty draconian to me, esp. if they're supposed to be about "state's rights," but flippantly dismiss that local school boards or counties should be given any leeway or ability to make decisions on that level versus just a flat ban on mask mandates (which seems like the very "cancel culture" and "fascism" they accuse the left of engaging in)

 

[muichimotsu]

Right, viruses (in effect) use us as a “food source”.
Vaccines make us less appetizing.
Guided-selection, though, not “natural selection”.

Natural or unnatural is hardly the standard here, because otherwise we could talk about how unnatural it is that we wear clothes, that we correct vision or hearing problems, etc. Why shouldn't we use something that could, to an extent, be called unnatural to deal with a demonstrable threat?

 

[muichimotsu]

Still, this brings up the “vaccine-paradox” argument that is a staple of anti-vax logic:
Since we’re using science (evolution) eventually we will end up creating the bug that finally wipes us off the face of the Earth because nature is going to win, it always wins so don’t futz with it too much.

Like the end of Titanic, Jack’s “wisdom” in saving Rose was to waiting to do anything until he had no choice.

That's like saying because we have antibody resistant bacteria we should just stop using antibiotics entirely. We should reduce their prescription for everything, since other medicines can be more effective at alleviating symptoms without creating more superbugs.

Our immune systems are often black and white in terms of response unless it's primed with inoculations, since there's that whole pesky cytokine storm that is one of several examples where our immune system, in trying to protect us, does so with no regard to our overall survival, but almost a scorched earth tactic

 

[muichimotsu]

Let's not forget that the route Fauci took ultimately failed and left him looking untrustworthy. It's not as though "all's well that ends well."

He hasn't ended well, and now there are additional serious issues such as his involvement with likely gain of function experiments at Wuhan. I don't believe Fauci was involved in such work, but I do think the Chinese scientists at Wuhan were, and Fauci has damaged his own trustworthiness.

If he'd been forthright from the beginning, he would have at least been able to claim honesty all along.

Not with those who never trusted him, the CDC or the WHO from the start and certainly not with any guarantee in terms of people who'd sway to Trump's dismissive tone and want to just "go back to normal" instead of realizing we are ill prepared to deal with a pandemic in terms of production, let alone our broken healthcare system where people would prefer to die than saddle their family with medical debt.

Gain of function research is treated like it's the end of the world when, pretty sure it's meant to actually head off viral mutations at the pass in terms of our understanding in developing vaccines, etc.

So often we seem to be suckered into believing something in sci fi will just become real because one can make some specious link between that and something they likely have a cursory superficial understanding of at best anyway

 

[Bradskii]

Clarity to the uneducated masses is irrelevant, because they just move the goalposts to fit their conspiracy theories so they can feel confident and safe and assuage their paranoid delusional fears

Problem is, even if you're doing everything right, you cannot assume that the public will 1) be able to comprehend it and 2)be able to respond in a rational and calculated fashion. Give the lowest common denominator too much credit and you just lower the bar further

Do you know what horrifies me? The longer I've been around, the more I agree with that. I don't know who first said this...but they asked you to consider how uninformed and unintelligent the average guy is. Everyone agree? And now consider that half the planet must, by definition, be even more uninformed and less intelligent.

I'm not getting any smarter. So why do most people seem to get dumber?

 

[Pommer]

Do you know what horrifies me? The longer I've been around, the more I agree with that. I don't know who first said this...but they asked you to consider how uninformed and unintelligent the average guy is. Everyone agree? And now consider that half the planet must, by definition, be even more uninformed and less intelligent.

I'm not getting any smarter. So why do most people seem to get dumber?

I blame “gravity waves”.

 

[RDKirk]

Do you know what horrifies me? The longer I've been around, the more I agree with that. I don't know who first said this...but they asked you to consider how uninformed and unintelligent the average guy is. Everyone agree? And now consider that half the planet must, by definition, be even more uninformed and less intelligent.

George Carlin.

But the problem with Fauci's "solution" is that there will be those who are intelligent and informed...and some of them were out to get him.

Truth is still always better. And as I pointed out, a big problem in Fauci's solution was that he clearly didn't understand how the PPE logistics worked. So to that extent, even he was uninformed.

 

[Bradskii]

George Carlin.

Ah, yes. Thanks for that.

 

[muichimotsu]

Do you know what horrifies me? The longer I've been around, the more I agree with that. I don't know who first said this...but they asked you to consider how uninformed and unintelligent the average guy is. Everyone agree? And now consider that half the planet must, by definition, be even more uninformed and less intelligent.

I'm not getting any smarter. So why do most people seem to get dumber?

Because intelligence as a concept is becoming more nebulous: people can just assert they're very smart and exude confidence, even deceive others into believing it with that con game.

Confirmation bias and our unwillingness to recognize it or even just flat unawareness of the concept is also a big factor, resulting in an inability to have real critical thought, just more recycling of prior ideas in a new coat of paint

 

[muichimotsu]

George Carlin.

But the problem with Fauci's "solution" is that there will be those who are intelligent and informed...and some of them were out to get him.

Truth is still always better. And as I pointed out, a big problem in Fauci's solution was that he clearly didn't understand how the PPE logistics worked. So to that extent, even he was uninformed.

And if he admits that, then what? Too little too late if you're going to ignore that there are likely changes that are improving the situation, though much of that is going to vary statistically from region to region even just in America, plus upcoming season where there's a potential double whammy and the so called "harmless" flu that's actually an influenza virus could result in death because people treat a coronavirus like influenza when they're fairly different, afaik.

 

[RDKirk]

And if he admits that, then what? Too little too late if you're going to ignore that there are likely changes that are improving the situation, though much of that is going to vary statistically from region to region even just in America, plus upcoming season where there's a potential double whammy and the so called "harmless" flu that's actually an influenza virus could result in death because people treat a coronavirus like influenza when they're fairly different, afaik.

What you said didn't have anything to do with what I said.

 

[Bradskii]

Because intelligence as a concept is becoming more nebulous: people can just assert they're very smart and exude confidence, even deceive others into believing it with that con game.

No. I disagree. Intelligence isn't a variable 'concept'. It's a definition: The ability to absorb and understand facts about the world and then to make logical predictions based on those facts. Intelligence is useless in itself. It has to be utilsed. Intelligence is: There is this, there is that, therefore...X.

Why can't so many people do that these days?