Good to know that i can take the opinion of a random person on the internet (you) over a Harvard epidemiologist and Stanford professor of medicine (the authors of the article).
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It is a fact that people who have already had the virus and recovered, are still better off getting the vaccine than not.
Americans failed their elderly.
Too many Americans started off denying that Covid was deadly "It's just a flu"
Too many Americans fought against masks and instead caught and spread the disease
Too many Americans are currently fighting against vaccines and are instead catching and spreading the disease.
The failings of USA to combat this disease are not because of Fauci's recommendations for people to wear masks, to isolate, to get vaccinated.
Just utter nonsense.
More nonsense.
We all know that children are less likely to have adverse affects from the disease. It is not surprising, even when schools are open that kids aren't dying in massive numbers.
The real problem with opening schools during an out of control pandemic is that the kids bring the disease home and their parents and grandparents get ill and some of them die, this all contributes to more rampant spreading in the community and large amounts of death all around.
Sweden has done horribly badly, for a country with a population of just over 10 million they have had over 15,000 Covid deaths. In comparison NZ has had lockdowns, mask restrictions, border restrictions and for a population of just over 5 million we have had 28 deaths.
Sweden's approach has been nonchalant and negligent and the results are abysmal.
As we all know, Fauci is one of many advisers, he represents the scientific crowd.
Fauci has no power to close schools. Closing of schools was made by politicians and governors.
In my view school closures was the correct thing to do, in the middle of an out of control deadly pandemic. Certainly, keeping them open wouldn't in the least help fight this pandemic.
This opinion article and this thread are complete nonsense.
I'm just addressing the main points that you quoted.Good to know that i can take the opinion of a random person on the internet (you) over a Harvard epidemiologist and Stanford professor of medicine (the authors of the article).
Mounting evidence indicates that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than vaccine-induced immunity. [Eds.: Long-term trends are still unclear. A recent study reached the opposite conclusion, but was criticized by an author of this op-ed.]
That is incorrect. It is incorrect to assume lockdowns didn't limit the number of deaths. Most studies on the matter, infact DO show lockdowns and restrictions have direct relationshpis with outcomes.Protecting the elderly. While anyone can get infected, there is more than a thousand-fold difference in mortality risk between the old and the young. After more than 700,000 reported COVID deaths in America, we now know that lockdowns failed to protect high-risk older people.
Why are these doctors pushing vaccines? Isn't tha tthe point of this thread?What can we do now to minimize COVID mortality? Current vaccination efforts should focus on reaching people over 60 who are neither COVID-recovered nor vaccinated, including hard-to-reach, less-affluent people in rural areas and inner cities.
There is a reason that they, with surgical precision restricted this comment to "the 2020 spring wave" and it is because Sweden's hospitalization rates and their handling of COVID went to pooptown.Throughout the 2020 spring wave, Sweden kept daycare and schools open for all its 1.8 million children ages 1 to 15, with no masks, testing or social distancing. The result? Zero COVID deaths among children and a COVID risk to teachers lower than the average of other professions.
I'm sorry but quoting 2 studies is UTTERLY laughable when I can come up with a list of I think it's 50.Masks. The gold standard of medical research is randomized trials, and there have now been two on COVID masks for adults. For children, there is no solid scientific evidence that masks work. A Danish study found no statistically significant difference between masking and not masking when it came to coronavirus infection. [Eds. A recent study showed that masks do reduce infections.] In a study in Bangladesh, the 95 percent confidence interval showed that masks reduced transmission between 0 percent and 18 percent.
Poor execution from an inept government that did a terrible job does NOT mean that contact tracing was useless.Contact tracing. For some infectious diseases, such as Ebola and syphilis, contact tracing is critically important. For a commonly circulating viral infection such as COVID, it was a hopeless waste of valuable public health resources that did not stop the disease.
To an extent, I agree with this point. HOWEVER, it should be noted that the impact of COVID on the health care system provided it's own challenges to those SAME effects. And if the response had been lesser, likely the healthcare system would have been impacted for long stretches from COVID instead of lockdown measures.Collateral public health damage. A fundamental public health principle is that health is multidimensional; the control of a single infectious disease is not synonymous with health. As an immunologist, Dr. Fauci failed to properly consider and weigh the disastrous effects lockdowns would have on cancer detection and treatment, cardiovascular disease outcomes, diabetes care, childhood vaccination rates, mental health and opioid overdoses, to name a few. Americans will live with—and die from—this collateral damage for many years to come.
whoa! Looks like you're thinking there!There may be a vaccine for free speech soon. For now they will have to settle for quarantine.
It was a point in time comment that he made. At that time USA had 15 cases. Fauci said that all of USA don't need to wear masks right now, but that the situation could change. Fauci was obviously considering that there weren't enough masks for everyone and that it was much more important for medical professionals to get the needed masks.Various media people and politicians have spoken about him lying or telling "noble lies", and how he could have actually been more honest going back to what he said about regular people shouldn't buy masks in early 2020.
Fauci wasn't lying, there was no gain of function research.And before that there were stories that he lied to Congress as far as studies on gain of Function research where he was trying to play some kind of word parsing game.
I'm just addressing the main points that you quoted.
Everyone is up for criticism, everyone.
You can choose to address my points (but you don't have to)
You can appeal to authority (which you have done)
We are entitled to criticise points that people with authority make (which I have done)
It is a fact that people who have already had the virus and recovered, are still better off getting the vaccine than not.
Americans failed their elderly.
Too many Americans started off denying that Covid was deadly "It's just a flu"
Too many Americans fought against masks and instead caught and spread the disease
Too many Americans are currently fighting against vaccines and are instead catching and spreading the disease.
The failings of USA to combat this disease are not because of Fauci's recommendations for people to wear masks, to isolate, to get vaccinated.
Just utter nonsense.
More nonsense.
We all know that children are less likely to have adverse affects from the disease. It is not surprising, even when schools are open that kids aren't dying in massive numbers.
The real problem with opening schools during an out of control pandemic is that the kids bring the disease home and their parents and grandparents get ill and some of them die, this all contributes to more rampant spreading in the community and large amounts of death all around.
Sweden has done horribly badly, for a country with a population of just over 10 million they have had over 15,000 Covid deaths. In comparison NZ has had lockdowns, mask restrictions, border restrictions and for a population of just over 5 million we have had 28 deaths.
Sweden's approach has been nonchalant and negligent and the results are abysmal.
As we all know, Fauci is one of many advisers, he represents the scientific crowd.
Fauci has no power to close schools. Closing of schools was made by politicians and governors.
In my view school closures was the correct thing to do, in the middle of an out of control deadly pandemic. Certainly, keeping them open wouldn't in the least help fight this pandemic.
This opinion article and this thread are complete nonsense.
If you had COVID-19 and recovered, will you still be able to or need to get the vaccine? | The Immunisation Advisory Centre1. Would the Covid recovered benefit from also being vaccinated?
The CDC study did not address the first question, while the Israeli study showed a small but not statistically significant benefit in reducing symptomatic Covid disease. Future studies will hopefully shed more light on this issue.
I agreeSending the infected back into care facilities was absolutely horrific.
That was in the beginning in USA when around 15 people only were infected. Didn't need 330 million USA folk rushing in a panic to buy masks.You do recall Fauci saying masks are worthless near the onset of the pandemic, don't you? I mean, he had noble intentions, but it certainly didn't send a consistent message.
The mask protects others from you, not you from others.That being said, i've been wearing mine, although i question the efficacy in any prolonged exposure situation (which is why i don't engage in prolonged exposure situations).
At a much lower rate than people with no immunity.The vaccinated are also catching and spreading the disease.
Fauci doesn't make laws, he doesn't make mandates, he doesn't close schools, he doesn't procure ventilators or vaccines. He analysis data and offers advice.Why attribute the failure of the USAs response to Covid on the person leading the response to Covid? What nonsense!
I mean, sometimes the best way to address those that treat you like garbage is to not really give them any satisfaction, but there's no easy one-size-fits-all solution to delusional paranoid schizophrenics who'll find any excuse to treat others like monsters as a defense mechanism for their own insecurities.Various media people and politicians have said all kinds of things about all kinds of people. Some of them were true, some weren't. But the truth of the accusations isn't really the point, is it?
The evidence was indeed thin on the subject at the time, but he should have been more transparent.
That would be one of those things somebody dredged up to make Fauci look bad, no matter how extremely tenuous the connection was with him. What did Fauci have to do with approving that study (assuming it was accurately described, which remains to be seen)? He's not involved in approving funding for individual studies.
Put another way, there were politically motivated stories playing some kind of word parsing game to make it look like he'd lied. Why conservatives have decided to use Fauci as their punching bag is unclear to me. Perhaps it's because he's a genuine, respected expert in infectious disease -- demonization and hatred of expertise in general and a rejection of anything resembling competence when in comes to infectious disease in particular, seem to be the norm for the American right at the moment.
Well, yes, maybe he can go on doing his job, serving the public and trying to improve human health, without being taken down by all the vicious stuff being thrown at him or being put off by the death threats. I don't see why that would be a bad outcome.
Pst, you forgot the quote marks around "hardship", otherwise they might take you seriouslyExcept several orders of magnitude more deadly.
But at least you don't have the inconvenience of wearing a mask when in public. I really empathise for you on such hardship.
Or they don't understand that lying and being wrong about something based on initial assessments aren't the same thing. He was going based on limited info and had he known what we know now, he most definitely would've requested universal masking in major traffic areas.One other thing. If he was lying about masks then, that implies that the truth is that we should all be wearing masks. Somehow I doubt that most of those accusing Fauci of lying believe that to be true.
You expect people to actually confront the moral failures of treating this disease like it's nothing when the evidence contradicts that thoroughly both in the short AND long term instead of deflecting and trying to make some new scapegoat on top of those they already use? This is America, the land where mental healthcare is a freaking luxury or so commoditized that it is barely better than glorified talk therapy (like I was told after the fact with Cerebral and basically wasted $90+ on).800,000 dead and you guys want to talk about beagles?
The world is crazier than I would have ever imagined.
When the OP has to characterize everyone that supports getting vaccinated (and brings up how not getting vaccinated when you have no legitimate medical exemption or even religious ones founded in your scriptures) as "ultra pro vaccine", not sure I can take the arguments seriously, given how much of a caricature and hyperbole you have to do in order to demonize your opposition; as if a pro choice angle for this somehow doesn't make you a hypocrite when you'd very likely (not 100%) also consider yourself pro life in regards to abortion rights and say pro choice should call themselves pro abortion (when that's dishonest characterization).
Not everything works on a personal choice and has no consequences to others: vaccination in particular is NOT and has NEVER been some personal choice in a vacuum, it is for PUBLIC HEALTH, pure and simple, a community based decision rooted in simple human empathy towards others.
I think it would have helped a lot if our President at the time this thing started had united the country instead of trying to shirk his responsibility. Fauci became a focal point because we had no leadership. Our President wanted to play it down instead of getting in front of it. Pitiful. Masks, from the beginning, were played down, which was a lie. They said there were studies that said we didn't need them. In a couple weeks, we already had studies. Come on. If they had been honest from the get go, things would have been different, I think.
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