How far should the peace commitment go?

[SolaVeritas]

We've are members of an Evangelical Mennonite Conference church and I wanted to bring something up that I think might be of interest to some.

A few years ago, when we wanted to serve with a Mennonite relief service, we got into a discussion with them about our previous (pre-christian) involvement with the military. They wanted us to basically say that it was wrong to serve in that way, and now that we are good Mennonites, we can clearly see that. Well, we could not get ourselves to that position, and the work relationship with the organisation never materialized.

Here's the question that I have, and never got a chance to ask at that discussion table: Every person in our country (and wherever you are) enjoys the safety and order that the military and policing services provide. Now, if I think it is entirely wrong to do partake in either profession, how can I expect someone else to do it? Is it ok for the unbeliever, so he can protect me, but I for myself wouldn't do what he does? Really, isn't there something wrong with this picture? I can see where I would have to refuse to go along and attack another country, but to stand at the border so that my family is safe? What do you think?

 

[SolaVeritas]

Ahh, this is like shouting in the mountains:

HELLO! ..ello..ello

ANYBODY HERE?!...here...ere...ere

 

[WordsWillFailMe]

All I can say is that when Jesus spoke with the centurion soldier, our Lord did not ask him to change his profession or rebuke him for it in any way.

It was a soldier Jesus said had the greatest faith He'd seen among men.

 

[leroysch]

It's a difficult question to try to answer, for me. Once one starts down that path where commitment to a lifestyle or paradigm is equivalent to disassociation from certain aspects of society or elements of activity which obviously have to be done, the question becomes exactly what you ask: how far should [the commitment] go? If one ethically cannot associate with or support or work with the military/police, then how can one obligingly pay taxes, a portion of which travels to those coffers? (That's obviously an extreme; however, it's a perpetual question among many I worship with.)

From my understanding, our faith brings us to trying to make a better world; it does not encourage us to leave the world stranded. Loving your neighbor does not imply leaving them to do the jobs that we 'righteous' cannot/will not do.

My answer, which may not apply to you per se, is that I support the peace process with that light that's been given me. There are times when I can see working shoulder to shoulder with those I otherwise wouldn't associate with, doing things to protect my faith, my family, my neighbors which I wouldn't dream of doing on an ongoing basis - because it needs to be done at that time. It's happened in emergency situations and during moments of crisis in my little corner of the world.

My testimony will always be that I actively support peace; however, I realistically recognize that there are times when force may be called for to enable or facilitate that peace. I won't carry that to legitimizing a war for doctrinal or political ends [I believe]. And I won't carry that to factions' or nations' vendetta or vigilante actions. And I will be in self-denigrating torture while I'm doing it and carry it with me for a long time afterward....but....if I'm convinced it has to be done, then I'm convinced it has to be done.

I have difficulty with some of the RSOF meetings that I'm familiar with and with some of the national organizations that over-emphasize absolutism in some of these testimonies: the nature of the Light is readily apparent to each of us who actually seeks illumination, and dictating particular behavioral 'creeds' for all those who follow that Way seems to contradict the focus of the individual's understanding of the life they're living. So I shy away from joining in with groups (however worthy) which have the 'compliance requirements' portion of the contract.

I'm sorry if my answer is a little ambiguous. My feeling is that since we are not yet at peace, then commitment to peace at times may mean working with those who generate violence. It's too bad. But when the peacemongers work among the weaponizers, then they have the chance to show how peace can work. Wasn't it a criticism of the Messiah that he ate with tax collectors and other sinners? Who won THAT war?

Those diciples who had courage enough to mourn at the foot on the cross in spite of the possibility of being associated with the Messiah when all of the other 'orthodoxists' ( made up word) fled. There's always room in Jesus' heart (in my opinion) for those dissenters who act out of love and their true understanding of Him.

 

[SolaVeritas]

Thank you for taking the time to write a thoughtful reply. Amen to your last sentence. The longer I walk with Jesus, the more I learn how a surrendered heart counts more than outward compliance. While I would strongly advocate peace and reconciliation work, I believe it is possible for a person to have pride in his heart over his peace commitment, and it is possible for a soldier to be broken before God for the things he's commanded to do. Remember the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector that came to the temple to pray?

 

[childofdust]

Is it ok for the unbeliever, so he can protect me, but I for myself wouldn't do what he does? Really, isn't there something wrong with this picture?

I've always had a problem with this kind of double-standard. If something is wrong-it's not just wrong for a believer, it's wrong for an unbeliever as well. I call my country, its military, its police, and its systems to the same obedience to Yeshua as I live in my life. I think where you and I would differ might be in "expecting someone else to do it." I don't expect someone else to do it. And I certainly don't believe "Every person in our country (and wherever you are) enjoys the safety and order that the military and policing services provide." At the end of the day, the police and the military can't be sued if something bad happens to us. We're ultimately responsible for our own safety and well-being. And that comes about not because of military and police, but because of the witness of Christ and those who follow him. Love is the only thing that ever conquered evil. Doing to others as you would have them do to you isn't simply a wise saying, it's the only real alternative. This will continue to be the only thing that works long after all other methods like force and violence have failed. A peaceful, co-existing society formed not because police and military forced people to deal with each other as fairly as they could, but because people realized that a society that puts down the sword and tries to deal with each other fairly resulted in a better society than otherwise. Besides, on a purely realistic level, I'm a privileged white male, and the kind of abuse I've endured at the hands of police for no reason is nothing compared to what others who are not white, not male, poor, or powerless go through on a daily basis. If anyone gains something by the military and police system, it is chiefly those who control and operate those systems, not those under its influence and dominion. Seek to establish the kingdom of Christ among all people-even the military and police-and those systems will cease to exist.

The thing you haven't told us is what sort of "military involvement" you participated in. What you were doing makes all the difference in the world. One could be "involved" with the military, for instance, in terms of going into a battlefield to heal and mend the wounded...or by making bullets or firing them at another human being.

Ahh, this is like shouting in the mountains:

I know what you mean ... I'm still waiting on a reply to my first post...