How far is too far?

[swimgirl]

First let me say that I have never had a bf and I have always been content with that. But I don't know what the future holds and I am becoming more aware that I could meet somebody soon. I am starting college this year and that is where a lot of couples meet. I am not looking for a bf. I have big hopes and dreams career wise, but I want to be realistic and open to the possibility. Therefore, I want to be fully convinced about my standards. I am wondering how far is too far to go physically with a bf/gf. I am more looking for stories from people who are already married, maybe, who did/did not kiss, etc. before their wedding and whether or not they regret it. Since I am a girl, I don't really know how men think about this and whether or not kissing would cause them lust more..? So just any help or advice would be awesome. Thanks guys.

 

[iambren]

You will get a wide swath of answers on this age-old question. In seminary I was assigned this question and my conclusions were brief:


1 Keep the degree of your physical intimacy to be proportional to the degree of your PUBLICALY professed commitment. So when you make the ultimate profession of commitment (marriage) you may make love.

2 These are only limits;if either of you are overly-tempted then take steps to lower your level of affection...(some may elect only to kiss before marriage).

 

[2sparrows]

I have friends whose first kiss was on their wedding day as husband and wife. I thought it was pretty awesome.

 

[EazyMack]

I have friends whose first kiss was on their wedding day as husband and wife. I thought it was pretty awesome.

That would be awesome.

I regret not waiting.

So... while you'll scare off plenty of boys by saving sex for marriage, it's well worth it to weed them out until you find the right one who is equally committed to abstinence.

It would be best not to tempt the fates by kissing, etc.

But... this is just advice.

 

[~Anastasia~]

My husband and I waited but one thing I can tell you is that ... one thing leads to another and you can easily end up going further than you meant to. Yes, kissing can lead to temptation/lust.

I would recommend not looking at it as saying, "I will only go THIS far before marriage" because chances are very good that if you let yourself begin to get aroused, you will lose your resolve and may easily do more than you intended.

It's like playing with fire. How much can you handle it before you get burned? Not really a wise way of looking at it.

If you are really committed to keeping yourself pure for marriage, you would be wise to have things in place to keep you accountable. Don't be alone together in private where you have opportunity for sex, for example. If you want to kiss, etc. then it would be safer to do that in a place where you know you won't let it get out of hand, like in public.

I don't know how young men will react if you tell them you don't want to even kiss, if that is your standard. But it might give you some insight into their character and weed out the ones who don't value you enough.

Waiting is worth it, and you will know that he respects you and values you, and you won't have shame at giving in when you didn't mean to.

Also I would warn you, there have always been guys who see a girl who values herself as something of a "challenge" and may try just to see if they can get you to give in, just to see if they can. They tend to see women as toys they can play a game with, so you want nothing to do with them.

 

[orangeness365]

keep your clothes on and don't have sex.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Guard your heart until its time to give it to the right man.

 

[parsley]

Kissing is just kissing, but if your whole relationship revolves around it, then you will not get to know who the person really is.

Do a projection out into the future, and work backwards. If you did __, would you need to deal with a disease, leave school to raise a child, be in a different income bracket as a single less-educated mother, be tied to a person you don't know or like very well.

Kissing doesn't get you into those problems. But yes, it does tempt people. Too bad, so do cookies and champagne at New Year's. Make sure you don't define everything as sin, and narrow your life too far.

Also, make sure you do not feel obligated to do things you are not comfortable doing, or not interested in doing. Some people get talked into awkward things that have very little to do with a loving relationship.

I think you will be surprised how many people didn't date in HS. There's a lot of flirting that goes on, and more... but a lot of people who just get too busy or shy or friend-centered for dating. Not a big deal.

 

[Inkachu]

First let me say that I have never had a bf and I have always been content with that. But I don't know what the future holds and I am becoming more aware that I could meet somebody soon. I am starting college this year and that is where a lot of couples meet. I am not looking for a bf. I have big hopes and dreams career wise, but I want to be realistic and open to the possibility. Therefore, I want to be fully convinced about my standards. I am wondering how far is too far to go physically with a bf/gf. I am more looking for stories from people who are already married, maybe, who did/did not kiss, etc. before their wedding and whether or not they regret it. Since I am a girl, I don't really know how men think about this and whether or not kissing would cause them lust more..? So just any help or advice would be awesome. Thanks guys.

You're wise to set your standards now, BEFORE you start dating. Once you've got a crush on someone, hormones go all batty, and your thinking and reasoning can get very fuzzy! That is not the time to try and set boundaries, so kudos for thinking about it now!

I don't think you should look too much to other people to find out what YOU believe about boundaries. You need to ask yourself this question, and you need to ask God. There IS no cut-and-dry "this is what Christians should do" answer, because the Bible doesn't say specifically what to do or not do when it comes to things like hugs and kisses while you're courting/dating.

Some couples choose not to touch at all until their wedding. Some choose not to kiss. Some restrict their kisses to quick pecks and nothing more. Some go full-on make out, sucking face but refrain from intercourse. And everything in between.

You need to decide what YOU want to be able to say about yourself and your behaviors when you're standing at the altar before God. And then stick with it, no matter what! Temptation WILL come; it's a question of when, not if. You've never had a boyfriend, so it's hard to know if you're going to be someone who's very passionate and has trouble putting on the brakes, per se, or will you be someone who isn't very touchy-feely and will have more natural self control. The former type of person (IMHO) will probably need more strict standards, since it's easier for them to get swept up in a passionate moment and go too far.

Pray about this, think about this, take your time with it.

 

[aiki]

This:

"I would recommend not looking at it as saying, "I will only go THIS far before marriage" because chances are very good that if you let yourself begin to get aroused, you will lose your resolve and may easily do more than you intended.

It's like playing with fire. How much can you handle it before you get burned? Not really a wise way of looking at it."

I agree with Kylissa: You shouldn't be wondering how close you can get to sin, but how far away from it you can be. When you play at the edges of sin, you will, sooner or later, fall into it.

Selah.

 

[aiki]

By the way, I didn't marry 'til I was 39. The only woman I have kissed romantically (I've kissed my mother and grandmothers) is my wife.

Selah.

 

[parsley]

Here's an interesting addition from http://www.jewfaq.org/marriage.htm :

Mishnah Kiddushin 1:1 specifies that a woman is acquired (i.e., to be a wife) in three ways: through money, a contract, and sexual intercourse. Ordinarily, all three of these conditions are satisfied, although only one is necessary to effect a binding marriage.

...The woman is not being bought and sold like a piece of property or a slave. ... the wife's acceptance of the money is a symbolic way of demonstrating her acceptance of the husband, just like acceptance of the contract or the sexual intercourse. ... In all cases, the Talmud specifies that a woman can be acquired only with her consent, and not without it. Kiddushin 2a-b.

As part of the wedding ceremony, the husband gives the wife a ketubah/ marriage contract. The ketubah spells out the husband's obligations to the wife during marriage, conditions of inheritance upon his death, and obligations regarding the support of children of the marriage. It also provides for the wife's support in the event of divorce... additional conditions can be included by mutual agreement.

The process of marriage occurs in two distinct stages: kiddushin (commonly translated as betrothal) and nisuin (full-fledged marriage).

Kiddushin ("sanctified" and implying "set aside")--when the woman accepts the money, contract or sexual relations offered by the prospective husband. It reflects the sanctity of the marital relation. .. kiddushin sets aside the woman to be the wife of a particular man and no other.

Kiddushin is far more binding than an engagement as we understand... a period of engagement before the kiddushin. Once kiddushin is complete, the woman is legally the wife of the man... only be dissolved by death or divorce. However, the spouses do not live together... .

​

Wow I think I'm stirring up trouble here with Mishna information.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Here's an interesting addition from Judaism 101: Marriage :

Mishnah Kiddushin 1:1 specifies that a woman is acquired (i.e., to be a wife) in three ways: through money, a contract, and sexual intercourse. Ordinarily, all three of these conditions are satisfied, although only one is necessary to effect a binding marriage.

...The woman is not being bought and sold like a piece of property or a slave. ... the wife's acceptance of the money is a symbolic way of demonstrating her acceptance of the husband, just like acceptance of the contract or the sexual intercourse. ... In all cases, the Talmud specifies that a woman can be acquired only with her consent, and not without it. Kiddushin 2a-b.

As part of the wedding ceremony, the husband gives the wife a ketubah/ marriage contract. The ketubah spells out the husband's obligations to the wife during marriage, conditions of inheritance upon his death, and obligations regarding the support of children of the marriage. It also provides for the wife's support in the event of divorce... additional conditions can be included by mutual agreement.

The process of marriage occurs in two distinct stages: kiddushin (commonly translated as betrothal) and nisuin (full-fledged marriage).

Kiddushin ("sanctified" and implying "set aside")--when the woman accepts the money, contract or sexual relations offered by the prospective husband. It reflects the sanctity of the marital relation. .. kiddushin sets aside the woman to be the wife of a particular man and no other.

Kiddushin is far more binding than an engagement as we understand... a period of engagement before the kiddushin. Once kiddushin is complete, the woman is legally the wife of the man... only be dissolved by death or divorce. However, the spouses do not live together... .

​

Wow I think I'm stirring up trouble here with Mishna information.

Parsley, may I have your permission to quote this in GT and begin a thread there? There's something I have wondered, and this addresses the foundation of my question. Thank you!

 

[iambren]

Self-quote "You will get a wide swath of answers on this age-old question."

Swimgirl I owe you an apology. Almost ALL the responses were in the negative,as if you have no backbone or self-control if you (gasp) kiss or caress before the wedding day.

We are sexual beings WAY before the wedding night. And isn't it sad to think of denying your romantic expressions and celebration of love in courtship/engagement? I don't advocate heavy petting when alone or sexual intercourse before marriage. But you ARE relating as a man and woman;I find it a bit unnatural to throw a big "switch" and two people go from black to white sexually speaking when married.

There are things you can do to keep in check. Eg...the 6 months before I got married I wanted my wife-to-be in a big way. We enlisted an elder and his wife for accountability. As a greeter every Sunday when I went in to church he would ask me this code phrase "Have we been victorious this week?" and I would answer "YES". He helped us stay pure AND he became the minister that married us!!

God created us sexual and if we manage it properly it's such a blessing. It's not this dirty thing that is sprung on us at one day. Love,know your limits,and stay pure.

 

[swimgirl]

Thanks to everyone who responded! I appreciate it. To those of you who are afraid I'll have a child and end up with diseases, no need to worry. I mean, with 3 younger siblings and 2 overprotective parents there's no need to worry about that, lol. They would be fine with me kissing whoever it is.. I've just heard different sides about where to draw the line. My mind works black and white, lol. Thanks again!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks to everyone who responded! I appreciate it. To those of you who are afraid I'll have a child and end up with diseases, no need to worry. I mean, with 3 younger siblings and 2 overprotective parents there's no need to worry about that, lol. They would be fine with me kissing whoever it is.. I've just heard different sides about where to draw the line. My mind works black and white, lol. Thanks again!

It's best that you define it yourself. You will probably have a lot more motivation to stick to your own convictions than someone else's imposed on you.

I think it's very rare for anyone to abstain from holding hands and kissing.

And I think iambren made a very good point that it's wise to avoid heavy petting in private, if you want to avoid intercourse.

Those are at least two outer lines, and you can draw yours relative to those.

I find that if there is a suitable public place for kissing, or a little snuggling, that it is safer than done in private. if it is in such a place that you know you have to restrain from going further than that. Circumstance can be just as important to consider as physical limits.

Really it's up to you though.

 

[Inkachu]

Self-quote "You will get a wide swath of answers on this age-old question."

Swimgirl I owe you an apology. Almost ALL the responses were in the negative,as if you have no backbone or self-control if you (gasp) kiss or caress before the wedding day.

We are sexual beings WAY before the wedding night. And isn't it sad to think of denying your romantic expressions and celebration of love in courtship/engagement? I don't advocate heavy petting when alone or sexual intercourse before marriage. But you ARE relating as a man and woman;I find it a bit unnatural to throw a big "switch" and two people go from black to white sexually speaking when married.

There are things you can do to keep in check. Eg...the 6 months before I got married I wanted my wife-to-be in a big way. We enlisted an elder and his wife for accountability. As a greeter every Sunday when I went in to church he would ask me this code phrase "Have we been victorious this week?" and I would answer "YES". He helped us stay pure AND he became the minister that married us!!

God created us sexual and if we manage it properly it's such a blessing. It's not this dirty thing that is sprung on us at one day. Love,know your limits,and stay pure.

Nobody is suggesting that she "turn off" her sexuality or that it's a "dirty thing". Where are you getting this from? I don't see that anywhere in this thread.

It's fine to "want" your spouse-to-be, as you said. But she doesn't even have a boyfriend yet, let alone a fiance or husband. She's trying be preemptively cautious, and I applaud her for that.

 

[iambren]

"I am more looking for stories from people who are already married, maybe, who did/did not kiss, etc. before their wedding and whether or not they regret it. Since I am a girl, I don't really know how men think about this and whether or not kissing would cause them lust more..?"

Swimgirl, if I started dating a gal in college and she wanted to save sex for the wedding night I would respect/esteem her. If she told me she would not kiss me until the wedding night I would dump her. Somewhere along the line she was taught that sex was dirty,that it was so bad that you had to stay FAR from it. I would be suspect of where that piety may take us post wedding day.

 

[parsley]

Parsley, may I have your permission to quote this in GT and begin a thread there? There's something I have wondered, and this addresses the foundation of my question. Thank you!

Hi Kylissa, use the link to find the text, and quote the site directly, so the author gets proper credits. (I didn't write it, so no sense in quoting me.)
This was actually the first I've seen it -- I was just looking for info on the betrothal terms and found more than I expected to. I think it reflects a time earlier in history when people were not always clustered in dense populations where there were justices of the peace and other officiators. It still held accountability for actions, but with more retroactive options.

 

[parsley]

Kissing and close contact put the body's instincts in motion, often to a point where it's hard to discern between physical chemistry, common sense, God's voice, and emotional obsession.

Abstaining completely helps people keep their heads on straight. But it is not a failproof way to have a safe and effective relationship, or to choose a suitable companion. It is not wrong or sinful to kiss, but it eventually influences your decisions... whether helpful or not.